Bonds just hit 756

[Tristam]

meh, yeah Bonds cheated and it sucks, but you gotta figure that the pitchers are cheating too, and they're getting off light on this. Not to mention what's already been said, that many in baseball, and maybe all pro sports as a whole are cheating. So that makes him the best of a bunch of steroid-users. I couldn't care less about the record, how many football or track and field records are held by steroid users you think? Both at the college and pro level? At least they catch some of them in track and field.

[Tyche]

I heard this somewhere, but I forgot who I need to quote...however, "I'd like to see the absolute best athletes science can create. What do I care if they die at 45. I want to see 100+ HRs a season and D-backs ripping the heads off WRs cutting across the middle. Fuck tradition."

[Akiyama]

I heard this somewhere, but I forgot who I need to quote...however, "I'd like to see the absolute best athletes science can create. What do I care if they die at 45. I want to see 100+ HRs a season and D-backs ripping the heads off WRs cutting across the middle. Fuck tradition."

All I have to say is lol. Reminds me of a particular movie. I think it was "Not Another Teen Movie"? Guy got ripped in half? xD

[Daahan]

Andou = Japanese

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2...7235535to2.png

That's how I found out about Barry Bonds' record breaking homerun.

[Melena]

I'm amazed at the person who listed Bagwell as a user but not Brady Anderson. If we want to discuss statistical anomolies, you should see this guy's home run numbers. Guy averages like 10-15 home runs a year then just has a monster year hitting I think 56 and you could see he added 30+ lbs over the previous year, then when people started wondering, he myseriously lost the mass and was never the same person again.

[RakEx]

I just listed a bunch very quickly. I actually just got back from lunch with some co-workers and the first person they mentioned was Brady Anderson, he just slipped my mind. There are many many others. Thats why i thought it would be interesting to name them.

[Ohemgee]

Hitting a baseball isn't hard (I played for 3 years SS 12-15). Thats like saying, its ok for me to rape her, as long as I hit her G-spot.

Unless I'm misreading your post, comparing your ability to hit the ball in 12-15 year old little league isn't even remotely comparable to batting in the majors.

I'm not defending Bonds in anyway, I think he's a cheating bastard, but your "point" is highly flawed.

I played with black people.

So your argument is defended with racism, I guess you just can't be wrong then.

Well no. They do throw the ball pretty hard.

And really, yeah, with Bonds 30+ years experience hitting a ball (assuming he played at a young age like most players). Hitting a ball ISN'T hard for him. Eye-hand coordination is a bullshit argument, if that were true, then asians on steroids would rape his record over the coming years. And yeah, little leaguers (or optimist/jv) is all relative. My experience at that age (which would be Ham from the sandlot) is just a scaled down version of what Bonds played. Bonds would be Benny.

Plus, I'm 10/15 with 95+ balls thrown at me, fuckers.
baseballs*

[Skyylya]

Hitting a baseball isn't hard (I played for 3 years SS 12-15). Thats like saying, its ok for me to rape her, as long as I hit her G-spot.

Unless I'm misreading your post, comparing your ability to hit the ball in 12-15 year old little league isn't even remotely comparable to batting in the majors.

I'm not defending Bonds in anyway, I think he's a cheating bastard, but your "point" is highly flawed.

I played with black people.

So your argument is defended with racism, I guess you just can't be wrong then.

Well no. They do throw the ball pretty hard.

And really, yeah, with Bonds 30+ years experience hitting a ball (assuming he played at a young age like most players). Hitting a ball ISN'T hard for him. Eye-hand coordination is a bullshit argument, if that were true, then asians on steroids would rape his record over the coming years. And yeah, little leaguers (or optimist/jv) is all relative. My experience at that age (which would be Ham from the sandlot) is just a scaled down version of what Bonds played. Bonds would be Benny.

Plus, I'm 10/15 with 95+ balls thrown at me, fuckers.
baseballs*

Thanks for adding the lulz to this thread. it is NOT all relative in any sense of the word. I dont' care what you did in little league or even high school. go play in a competitive college league and tell me you can even touch the ball. As someone who played at college and for a team that won the division 2 national championship and have seen pitches thrown at both 70(tops in little league) and 98 (college/CT travel team) I can tell you that it is a completely different ballgame.

edit: oh and i looked up what those EqR and EqA things are and well from this article (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=2596) it looks to me like it's just a revamped way to look at statistics exactly as i said and doesn't take anything into consideration as for difficulty of pitchers faced, mechanics of the game, technology of the game, game scheduling, health quality, game situations or really any number of things that actually contributed to a players performance at that time. You cannot compare across different era's with any kind of accuracy because all of the important things that make up a players ability are not statistical, those are results.

[Plow]

They'll be an Astrix by his name on any record, won't there?

If you mean literally, no. Nothing has ever actually been proven against Bonds. Basketball size head and mid 80's pro wrestler upper body may be ridiculously obvious, but it still doesn't count heh.




I did find it quite amusing however that he hit 755 off a pitcher who has tested positive for steroids in the past.

[Ohemgee]

[quote=Skyylya][quote=Ohemgee][quote=Krandor][quote=Ohemgee][quote=Krandor][quote="Ohemgee":faf0b]Hitting a baseball isn't hard (I played for 3 years SS 12-15). Thats like saying, its ok for me to rape her, as long as I hit her G-spot.[/quote]

Unless I'm misreading your post, comparing your ability to hit the ball in 12-15 year old little league isn't even remotely comparable to batting in the majors.

I'm not defending Bonds in anyway, I think he's a cheating bastard, but your "point" is highly flawed.[/quote]
I played with black people.[/quote]

So your argument is defended with racism, I guess you just can't be wrong then.[/quote]

Well no. They do throw the ball pretty hard.

And really, yeah, with Bonds 30+ years experience hitting a ball (assuming he played at a young age like most players). Hitting a ball ISN'T hard for him. Eye-hand coordination is a bullshit argument, if that were true, then asians on steroids would rape his record over the coming years. And yeah, little leaguers (or optimist/jv) is all relative. My experience at that age (which would be Ham from the sandlot) is just a scaled down version of what Bonds played. Bonds would be Benny.

Plus, I'm 10/15 with 95+ balls thrown at me, fuckers.
baseballs*[/quote]

Thanks for adding the lulz to this thread. it is NOT all relative in any sense of the word. I dont' care what you did in little league or even high school. go play in a competitive college league and tell me you can even touch the ball. As someone who played at college and for a team that won the division 2 national championship and have seen pitches thrown at both 70(tops in little league) and 98 (college/CT travel team) I can tell you that it is a completely different ballgame.

edit: oh and i looked up what those EqR and EqA things are and well from this article ([url="http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2596"]http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=2596[/url]) it looks to me like it's just a revamped way to look at statistics exactly as i said and doesn't take anything into consideration as for difficulty of pitchers faced, mechanics of the game, technology of the game, game scheduling, health quality, game situations or really any number of things that actually contributed to a players performance at that time. You cannot compare across different era's with any kind of accuracy because all of the important things that make up a players ability are not statistical, those are results.[/quote:faf0b]

70 tops? The hell did you play with. And yeah, little league compared to majors is a vast difference, but it doesn't change the Bonds argument in which your not picking up. He's been playing long enough for him to hit the ball almost precisely (like a lot of seasoned vets). Point in that is Bonds would be a decent batter, just not 700 club worthy. Back to Skyyla or whoever, eye hand coordination is a bullshit claim.

[Yangsing]

Who cares. ARod will pass his steroid using ass soon enough.

[Plow]

70 tops? The hell did you play with. And yeah, little league compared to majors is a vast difference, but it doesn't change the Bonds argument in which your not picking up. He's been playing long enough for him to hit the ball almost precisely (like a lot of seasoned vets). Point in that is Bonds would be a decent batter, just not 700 club worthy. Back to Skyyla or whoever, eye hand coordination is a bullshit claim.

That really is up for debate. Steroids or not, those balls are still moving 80-110mph. It really depends a lot on simply if he could last. Surely he would have been relegated to a dh role much earlier, but with the advances in medicine today there's nothing to really say he couldn't have done it without being the complete phisical freak he's become today.


meh... who really cares about baseball anymore anyway... and especially cheaters in baseball


bitching about cheating in baseball is about like bitching about botting in ffxi, if you stop 100 people 150 more will take their place


and yeah I'd bet arod passes him within 5-10 years, depending how long he keeps going

[Vedder]

and yeah I'd bet arod passes him within 5-10 years, depending how long he keeps going

Let's just say Bonds wraps it up with 800 (doubtful) and AROD finishes this year with 520 or so (probable).

That's a 280 HR gap to make up before AROD gets done. He's 32. Provided he doesn't have any sort of unnatural "enhancement" after age 38 like Bonds, he's got 6 above average years to put a dent in that gap.

280/6 = just under 47 per season. It's unlikely that he'll do it in 6 years, but drop that number down to about 37 per season over the next 6 years and he'll just need 60 more to pass Bonds. I say he breaks the record when he's 40 and hangs it up around 42-43 with 850 or so total homers.

[Skyylya]

70 tops? The hell did you play with. And yeah, little league compared to majors is a vast difference, but it doesn't change the Bonds argument in which your not picking up. He's been playing long enough for him to hit the ball almost precisely (like a lot of seasoned vets). Point in that is Bonds would be a decent batter, just not 700 club worthy. Back to Skyyla or whoever, eye hand coordination is a bullshit claim.

You ever watch the little league world series where the best little league kids in the world come together to play, and do you ever pay attention to the radar gun that shows the kids throwing the ball usually between 65-70 with a very very few who's age is questionable maybe hitting as high as 75? That's the 70 tops i'm talking about. Most kids in little league accross the country/world would probably have trouble throwing 60 let alone 70. There are probably a fair amount of high school pitchers who only throw about 70-75 with obviously some throwing 75-85 around the average then the elite high schoolers that can throw 85-95+.

And now I think you're just messing with me, nobody can be this idiotic unless you're like 12, but you already said you played baseball from 12-15 so you're probably just a dumb 15-16 year old. i challenge you to talk to any college or better baseball player (and not some kid team coach who's son plays cause younger team coaches don't know shit) and ask them what is more important to hitting, raw power or hand-eye coordination and I gaurantee you any player who has any potential at all will tell you that hand-eye coordination is the number 1 thing with power as the second most important thing. Doesn't matter how strong you are if you can't hit the ball it's going to end up in the catchers glove.

How long he's been playing has absolutely nothing to do with it in terms of your thought process (if you have one). it doesn't matter if you've been playing for 3 years or 30 years, hitting is still widely considered the most difficult thing to do in sports. hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely when it's traveling 60 feet 6 inches at 95 mph giving less than .5 seconds of time from the release of the pitchers hand til it reaches the batter is the most difficult thing to do in sports. In that .5 seconds you have to see the ball, recognize what kind of pitch it is, where it's going to be, when it's going to be there, whether or not it's spin is going to make it move somewhere else, whether or not it's a ball or strike and you should swing at it, whether or not it's a strike worth swinging at and then actually begin your swing and put the bat where the ball is supposed to be at the right trajectory in order to drive the ball with backspin into a 90 degree area of fair territory.

That is the thought process of hitting broken down about us much as I care to at the moment (and not even going into the mechanics of hitting and what you need to do in order to create a powerful compact swing), and that probably makes it sound easy to do in .5 seconds of time but those are all the things you have to do in that short amount of time to not only successfully hit the ball, but hit it well, hit it in the air, and drive it out of the park.

Nobody is a perfect hitter, the best hitters in baseball only ever got hit's around 40% of the time, and those are legends of baseball. just a 'good' hitter's average would be around 25-27.5% of the time with really good hitters doing it around 30-33% of the time. In no other game are you praised as much as baseball players for failing 70% of the time.

And yes, bonds has been playing long enough to be able to hit the ball precisely almost every time......guess what that's what he pretty much does. obviously he's not the idol of baseball perfection but he epitomizes what a good hitter does in the batters box. He is selective, he has good vision (not attributed to steroids), he can recognize pitches and where they're going to be and when they'll be there then put the bat there when it needs to be and drive the ball out of the park. He is a great hitter and all people care about is the 10% of his hit's or home runs that might have actually been affected by his steroid use.

And to comment on one of xavier's comments earlier, people use steroids because they do enhance your game, but not every aspect of the game and probably not as much as people think it does. People think that steroids = hitting production when athlete's probably use them for that, but see gains more in other area's of their game more than actually hitting. Probably run a bit faster or can last through the grind of the season better with less immediate injuries etc... As far as hitting and for pitching goes though, steroids will not help you hit the ball at a higher rate or help you throw strikes more consistently. Same argument for pitching, if steroids help you throw harder, they don't help you throw strikes and throw good strikes.

[Viq]

As I've said, it was published in their book Baseball Between the Numbers. If it was online, I would've linked it.

So how do they account for Ruth only facing a single ethnic group and possibly not playing against the world's best talent, as Bond's does day in and day out. It seems like an impossible theroycraft.

This was, for obvious reasons, the most abstract part of the comparison between the two players. On one hand, Ruth didn't play against the stars of the Negro leagues, or Latin American players. On the other hand, he didn't get to play with the benefit of modern technology and medicine. He didn't get to play in a time when the DH existed, which could've prolonged his career. He didn't have a team of doctors and nutritionists fixing his diet and curbing his drinking. Bonds had some severe injuries to both his knees and his right elbow in his early 30's. Those were injuries that most likely would've ended his career had he been playing in the 1920's.

Is the comparison going to be perfect? No, it can't be. It can be done with some degree of accuracy, and makes for an interesting discussion. As a result, the chapter on Babe vs. Barry never states one way or the other who the better player is.

And yes, bonds has been playing long enough to be able to hit the ball precisely almost every time......guess what that's what he pretty much does.

This article made for interesting reading while at work today on the subject of Bonds' precision. I think the author of the article is really reaching for reasons to knock Barry down a peg, but it was entertaining just the same.

[Ohemgee]

Read the first paragraph to Skyyla's post and realized I stopped caring as soon as Bonds hit his HR. Unless its strange that every pitcher on my high school varsity team can pitch 90-95 on average from my freshman and sophomore year (seniors). And I thought televised LLWS was for kids 11-14, I remember they had that controversy about that one hispanic kid who was like 2 years older than what they submitted.

How long he's been playing has absolutely nothing to do with it in terms of your thought process (if you have one)

And yes, bonds has been playing long enough to be able to hit the ball precisely almost every time

Your agreeing with me, you do know that right?


And yeah, I still think 30 years of hitting a ball still gives him "experience". But lets not define what that is, since it would end up turning into it.

And based on your general scientific theory of how a baseball bat hits a baseball, do you honestly think Bonds is saying that to himself? "WELL FUCK I GOTTA SMASH THAT SHIT AT A 45* ANGLE OR ELSE IM GOING TO SLICE IT"

I hit the ball and it goes long distances, surprise, I just beat MLB 2008.

[Awe]

The way it is to me is that while Barry Bonds hold the home run record now, Hank Aaron still remains the home run king in my eyes. Yes, Bonds has never been caught with steroids in his system, but there is still too much contraversy there, in my opinion.

It cannot be denied that Bponds does possess one of the sweetest swings in the game today, and that his plate patience is unmatched. But the steroids will change nothing of that, he was a terrific hitter before he exploded for 73 in 1 season. The only thing steroids help are how much power he puts behind the ball, and that is what drives it over the fence time after time for him.

As for me, I am a die-hard Yankees fan, and I am rooting for A Rod to keep hitting bombs the way he is, and that he will eventually break that record, and that he can stay clean while doing it.

[MikedeeFenrir]

Anyone remember when football got hit with 'roids?

I can't wait in a few years for the topic 'A-Rod just hit 757'

[Boyiee]

Baseball records off the top of my head which will never be broken and I feel are legitimate:
Ripken consecutive games played

They were talking about it on ESPN recently, lol, It's wayyyyyy more than what they said in reality but they were joking, still funny.

"Whats so great about ripken, he only came to work everyday" lol.

[Roranora]

It's pretty egocentric to think that any given person saying "AARON IS STILL MY TRUE HERO!!1" really means a damn thing at all; get over yourselves and all of our useless opinions. It's going in the record books with Aaron in 2nd (for now); Barry Bonds is a badass, both with and without steroids. The majority of the steroid users in baseball now are pitchers anyway.. so it's not like the game was any more or less tainted on either side of the pitch.

Congratulations to Barry; it doesn't instantly become easy for any of us to hit 800+ home runs in the majors upon using steroids. So, let go of the bullshit, naive, angel-like image of our now-rapidly-dying pastime and realize giving 2 shits about steroids one way or another is a waste of thinking.