Bonds just hit 756

[Skyylya]

Read the first paragraph to Skyyla's post and realized I stopped caring as soon as Bonds hit his HR. Unless its strange that every pitcher on my high school varsity team can pitch 90-95 on average from my freshman and sophomore year (seniors). And I thought televised LLWS was for kids 11-14, I remember they had that controversy about that one hispanic kid who was like 2 years older than what they submitted.

How long he's been playing has absolutely nothing to do with it in terms of your thought process (if you have one)

[quote:73547]And yes, bonds has been playing long enough to be able to hit the ball precisely almost every time

Your agreeing with me, you do know that right?


And yeah, I still think 30 years of hitting a ball still gives him "experience". But lets not define what that is, since it would end up turning into it.

And based on your general scientific theory of how a baseball bat hits a baseball, do you honestly think Bonds is saying that to himself? "WELL FUCK I GOTTA SMASH THAT SHIT AT A 45* ANGLE OR ELSE IM GOING TO SLICE IT"

I hit the ball and it goes long distances, surprise, I just beat MLB 2008.[/quote:73547]

It's not agreeing with you because in the first thing you quoted I said by 'your' thought process, which was that because he's been playing since little league so should be able to hit the ball every time implying that the only thing that makes a good hitter is how long they've been playing. You could play baseball for 30 years too and you'd never be a fraction of the player that bonds is, that goes for 98% of the baseball players in history.

In the second quote i'm saying that he's been playing professional baseball long enough and is at a point in his career where he has the knowledge and experience to put the best swing on the ball and not be the type of hitter that goes chasing pitches out of his zone.

subtle differences but I can see where you would get confused since I didn't really elaborate on either quote.

And, to be perfectly honest, the only experience that matters when it comes to the major leagues is probably your last couple years of the minors and any time you spend in the majors. Anything before that is mostly irrelevant as the game is much faster and much more in depth in the big leagues than at any other level. What bonds did in t-ball, or little league, or babe ruth league, or high school or even college, none of that makes any bit of a difference when you get to the higher stages of the minors and the big leagues. Being able to hit a ball going 85 and straight is not even comparable to a ball going 95 and moving 6 inches.

I would love to know where you go to school, westminster academy? Some school where people are recruited specifically to play baseball? If so then what the hell are you doing there? Please do share the name of your high school. I am not denying that there are kids in high school who can throw 90, there are actually quite a lot i'm guessing but still verrrrrry few by comparison to high schoolers across the country.

As for the hitting thing, you don't have to think each of those steps slowly and in order to perform them, but that is the thought process none-the-less and the things that need to be considered at bat. The fact that bonds walks as many times as he does, and in the hits he does get hits them as well as he does shows an incredible level of patience and ability at the plate given all the things that need to be considered in such a short amount of time.

[Viq]

now-rapidly-dying pastime

Yeah, baseball is dying so fast with it's record ticket sales

[Akiyama]

now-rapidly-dying pastime

Yeah, baseball is dying so fast with it's record ticket sales

QFT. Just because we have some cheaters out there, doesn't mean the division races and such are fail and that all people are losing interest. Just a lot. D:

[GraveRobberX]

I'm a die hard Yankee fan

I'm starting to get this chill on the back of my spine, that A-Rod will get grouped in with abusers of performance enhancing drug (cant be called a cheater/rule breaker if there isnt any rule for it)

Jose Canseco already is pointing fingers to A-Rod, it only has to be doubt placed on people for something to become tainted

Also steroids do help with hand-eye cordination

I was watching a segment on HBO, think it was on Costas Now or Real Sports with Bryant Gumble, they had the chemical pharmacist (I think thats what they are called) who created the so called HGH (Human Growth Hormone) "The Clear"

The guy state, that you take "The Clear" under the tounge, and that it rebuilds/masses up muscle, hand-eye cordination goes up, speed/endurance/agility are enhanced
(Almost feels like an Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion glitch/hack lol)

To me Bonds had an advantage over others, but for w/e this era/generation is calle, he was the best

Stop trying to make it sound Hank Aaron is so beloved by all, most had forgot about him, only reason people are on the Aaron bandwagon is they think records are pure/just and are not easily duped by any means (news flash, they can be)

Proffesional Sports will always have some unethical circumstances come there way, its how they react/adjust/evolve from it, that keeps it great/fun/enjoyable

[Cheerios]

All-you-can-eat/drink seats, sans beer = win.

[Izzy]

All sports should just make steroids legal. It would alleviate all these discussions lol.

[Plow]

I hit the ball and it goes long distances, surprise, I just beat MLB 2008.

You can't possibly be serious about your argument at this point. Omg I picked the falcons, or did a dynasty draft and took vick for first pick, suprise, I just beat madden for the last 8 years. That totally translates to the real world, where vick has run for 300+ yards a game every game for the last 8 years and won every leage mvp, offensive poty, etc etc.



Seriously you're going to base your argument off a video game now?



I'll make this simple:

Go do steroids. Get fucking HUGE. Then stop. And star trying to get into MLB.

By your logic, anyone with enough steroidally built muscle mass can do it.


And by that logic, you'd be absolutely retarded not to, because you could set yourself for life with just a year or 2 playing at half the level of Barry Bonds.


Let me know when you do.



And btw at 11-12 I was an extremely good little league pitcher, and it was a huuuuuuge deal the time I hit 69mph at 12, and I was never able to get over 65 again. (Switched focus entirely to soccer soon after)

Sure, you might see the absolute class of the world throwing 70-75 in little league, but 99.999999% of little league pitchers will never even hit 60.



edit: lmfao @ the article about the armor. serious response: anyone that's ever walked with a knee brace for a couple weeks than taken it off can tell you why after a year or more of medical necessity he would never play without it again. I liked how his response to critics was basically just restating the same thing and adding 1 new argument based around how it actually *limits* his extension...

real response: lmao dude's trying to attribute the best swing ever in baseball to an elbow protector, wow.

[Skyylya]

The article on the armor is largely ridiculous, but one thing I will say is that as erroneus as it might be on the whole it does have one thing that stood out for me was that it doesn't allow his arm to extend all the way.

One of the things that limits hitters is extending to early, or to much. If that armor does in fact allow him to maintain a nice box and keep his hands tight with his body that would indeed aid him in his swing especially over the course of a long game, or double header when he might be getting tired. If that is the case that he was getting tired anyway.

The reference to him not doing well in home run derby because he's not wearing is retarded anyway. Home run derby and real game situations are completely different and take a different approach and mentality at the plate, as well as the fact that most players alter their swings to compensate for the much slower speed of the pitch and the fact that it's one swing after another without much break in between.

I'd like to see some evidence that the armor does any of the things he claims though. Unless he's personally inspected it anything he say's is crap as his claim is that he's just watched video's of bonds' swing. Well, video's don't mean shit if you can't confirm any of his conspiracy theories about it.

[Roranora]

now-rapidly-dying pastime

Yeah, baseball is dying so fast with it's record ticket sales

When 1/3 of the stadium left Monday night, a tie game that went into extra innings mind you, just because Bonds was out of the game, the sport itself is dead. The fact that people can afford to witness history is irrelevant.





And to Po, I'm pretty sure Bonds' true prime was not 37-38, just because of 73 home runs. His (non-steroid?) prime was when he was stealing 40 bases a season and winning 8 gold gloves.

[Mysterio]

Jose Canseco pointing fingers at A-Rod?

Canseco never played with A-Rod, was Canseco even still in the league when A-Rod was? lol

Can't believe Skyyla is still defending Bonds. Hundreds of "flyouts" carried over the fences due to Bonds doubling his muscle mass within 2 years.

[Roranora]

"hundreds" would imply 200 minimum? What 200 home runs happened in 3 seasons, one of which he was injured.. that wouldn't have? Stop exaggerating the effect of steroids...

It's much easier (and let's face it, more fun) to be negative. That's all you're witnessing with the barrage at Bonds, from baseball, from average people, from old faggots, etc. I'd defend Bonds on the lone fact nothing's been proven.. but due to the natural envy of the majority, I'd defend him even if something was proven. Steroids won't create.. nor have they created.. "hundreds" of home runs for a single person.

[Deejay]

Even if you take out the 40 extra HR's that he got during the season in question, (73) He would have still broken the record if he plays 1-2 more seasons.

I think that if he gets to 800, the little * should be laid to rest, there will be little to no evidence showing that barry didn't atleast hit 756 of those on his own.

[Plow]

Jose Canseco pointing fingers at A-Rod?

Canseco never played with A-Rod, was Canseco even still in the league when A-Rod was? lol

Can't believe Skyyla is still defending Bonds. Hundreds of "flyouts" carried over the fences due to Bonds doubling his muscle mass within 2 years.

So every home run he's hit for the last 7-9 years has been a flyout carried over the fence by steroids?

Cuz he's only hit about 200 in 7 years, 300 in 9-10.


And as far as baseball being dead... I appear to know as much or more than the average person posting in the thread about the biggest record ever in sports and um...

I still think of bonds as a pirate and get a little confused whenever they say giant...

If that gives you any idea how much I actually care about hte sport now.

[Mysterio]

"hundreds" is an exaggeration obviously, I should have said "lots" I guess.

And "the season in question" was not the only year he had been on the juice, I'm sure he took them long before that.

[Roranora]

The earliest he allegedly took them was prior to to the 2000 season, when he hit like 49 in only 102 games... so you've still only got 3 seasons, if that. He wasn't exactly a 2-HR-a-year guy before then.. so the most you could realistically complain about would be about 65 home runs.. and even then, you're grabbing at nothing. He is not a guy like us who took some shit that turned him into the home run king. He is, however, undoubtedly a hall-of-fame athlete.. and he'll remain that until someone can come up with something other than a retarded exaggeration or an obvious cry of angst.

[Skyylya]

That's all you and everyone else bashing bonds has, exagerations and theories and absolutely no proof or evidence. There is NO way you can say that x amount of home runs were attributed to anything other than his ability at the plate. If you do you're just an idiot grasping for anything to discredit his accomplishment.

Most people hear the word steroids and have no clue how they even operate and change the body. They think steroids = automatic production and everything they do is not legitimate.

There are sooo many different kinds of steroids that do many different things and there is no evidence what-so-ever that he a) took steroids or, b)what kind of steroids he took if he did. Did he get bigger, sure even 35 year old guys can get bigger.

Here's one theory for you that carries as much weight as the steroid one. A fantastic athlete who's game used to be based on a good combination of both power and speed entered his 30's and noticed a decline in his running and couldn't continue that style of play. so instead of deteriorating his entire game he changed his approach to be a more selective power hitter at the plate, worked out hard in the off-season and came back and had a lot of success as a straight power hitter.

You can get big without steroids, especially when you have millions of dollars, any kind of exorcise machine, any number of nutritionists and LEGAL supplements at your disposal. he was already a big guy in his early-mid 30's and strayed from the skinny frame of his 20's, he just put more effort into refining his size into muscle.

There's my theory on his transformation from being a skinny potential 40-40 player into the successful power hitter he is today. The great thing is I have just as much evidence to support it as you and anyone else trying to say that everything he's done is primarily due to steroid use that hasn't even been proven to be the case.

name calling and pointing fingers is nothing more than hear-say until someone can prove that he took anything illegal. America is the country of being innocent until proven guilty unless people don't personally like you then you have to prove your innocence. people can continue speculating (and will) until they are blue in the face.

[RakEx]

Wait, so you don't think he used steroids at all or you were just using that theory as an example?

In you previous posts your argument seemed to be that steroids didn't make him that much better than he already was. Which is the way I look at it.

I think he definitely used them and they definitely help you hit the ball but Barry Bonds was already a superstar player in an Era of hundreds of cheaters. Therefore, he should not be discredited of his achievements.

[Tristam]

wait.... I thought there was evidence that he took steroids, computer records, balco testimony and the like, though no positive test cuz' baseball didn't have much of a testing policy. I thought that the big controversy was whether or not he knowingly took steroids from his trainer?

[Skyylya]

Wait, so you don't think he used steroids at all or you were just using that theory as an example?

In you previous posts your argument seemed to be that steroids didn't make him that much better than he already was. Which is the way I look at it.

I think he definitely used them and they definitely help you hit the ball but Barry Bonds was already a superstar player in an Era of hundreds of cheaters. Therefore, he should not be discredited of his achievements.

I was just using that theory as an example. I don't know if he took them or not. Personally I don't really care if he did or not because I believe that they don't really affect every aspect of someones game as much as people make itout to. Same way people blew sammy sosa's corked bat wayyyy out of proportion. a corked bat adds about 1 foot per 100 feet, sure it makes it go further but not enough to discredit anything he does. Same goes for bonds, even if he took steroids, it's not like he'd go from barry bonds production down to derek jeter production.

If he took steroids the biggest thing they'd do is increase his physical strength which doesn't help you hit a baseball (yeah it does help bat speed but again, if you don't put the bat on the ball it doesn't matter) and potentially keep him healthy over the course of a season which anyone who has heard bonds name should know he hasn't been the last 4 years or so since he actually hit that benchmark age of about 38-40. If he were on steroids he probably wouldn't be having all those knee problems and half to miss a bunch of games every year since steroids increase muscle density, promote bone growth and joint health as well.

From my understanding and i'll grant you I haven't been a hawk in paying attention to everything. But there is no hard evidence that bonds used anything, just speculatory and hear-say that his trainer apparently might've been giving it to him without his knowledge if at all since his trainer apparently also gave some other people steroids. Bonds has maintained that he never took them, or at least knowingly took them. I don't know what's true but until someone proves that he took steroids and did so knowingly and what he took was illegal (not everything is) i'm going to support him as I think he's one of the greatest if not the greatest hitter since ted williams.

[Viq]

wait.... I thought there was evidence that he took steroids, computer records, balco testimony and the like, though no positive test cuz' baseball didn't have much of a testing policy. I thought that the big controversy was whether or not he knowingly took steroids from his trainer?

dingdingding we have a winner. Bonds took steroids, but claims he didn't know what they were. There's all the information in Game of Shadows to go along with the leaked grand jury stuff.

On another note, don't judge baseball's popularity on attendence at games in California alone. All four CA teams have pretty well documented patterns of fans showing up late and leaving early. Compare that to St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, Boston, etc. There are a lot of places where baseball thrives and continues to expand it's fan base, moreso than there were before 1998. Is it as popular as football? Certainly not, but it's closer to the NFL than it is to the NHL.