Public opinion: Is dynamis too expensive?

[BerenTebogo]

Dynamis is just fine the way it is. Its expensive enough to keep everyone and their mom from cock blocking time slots. And its cheap enough to pay for itself in one way or another. Seriously, if your not doing zones @ cost, your doing something wrong. Id argue that the problem is not on SE's side, its on your side.

I've been running or helped run the same Dynamis aspect of my LS for years now and at the moment we are doing a near perfect job of breaking even at costs, and keeping requested AF rolling in. All zones, including CoP zones are in our agenda. The only loss zones (in terms of gil) are CoP zones. The drop rates on our win runs have been more then excellent, so it justifies the loss. On runs with currency (Cities and Beuc) or system not only pays for themselves, but makes enough profit to pay for the CoP runs.

All this coupled with proper zone planning you can create a break even/profit dynamis system. All that you have to worry about then is zone efficiency. You need to have a solid group with a 95% win ratio to make a good system win. So if you keep losing zones, or keep wiping on farm attempts, then its an issue of your strategy/play skill. Then you need to reevaluate the way you play, not how SE handles dynamis.

I dont mean to sound like an ass by saying this, but lowering the dynamis cost would hurt the more experienced dynamis shells. The shells that have 0 problems with wins/paying for runs/drops. This may sound egotistically but I do not have any major problems with the way my dynamis leg of my shell is run. (Other then me slackin on point updates, but that will be taken care of soon ) That said, the ONLY thing that can hurt me is MORE dynamis shells popping out of no where and stepping on my time slots.

Except the game doesn't revolve you, or the more "experienced" linkshells (whatever that means).

Just as they lowered the difficulty of CoP and taking away the (supposed) accomplishment of others, they will do whatever it takes to keep the player base going and interested; and I'm for that. If it means lowering the cost of Dynamis to put more people in there, then so be it. If the million gil pricetag is perfect from a development standpoint, and doesn't hurt the player, then keep it as-is.

Endgame content revolves around endgame players.

Having 5 75 jobs doesn't necessarily make you an 'endgame plaer.'

See the 3 retarded topics on this exact fact that have sprouted up, like tekki said, top tier content for top tier players.

[Shadowrunner]

The funny thing would be, hundreds of people (lots of groups) still do dynamis on a regular basis - despite it's cost. It takes a good chunk of money out of the economy, sure. But I always like to think of it as SE's original intent of really making money dissappear, I -think- it came out before the taxes on the AH? Or am I really that tired and there's always been taxes on the AH...

None the less, lots of people do it, despite the cost. It's fine as is, and is fine for a large majority of the population, with said majority probably split as to whether or not they're happy about it.

Keep the price the same, introduce more ways to make money, profit.

[BRP]

BRP read my post if you think Dynamis is too expensive...

Uh? I said it's too expensive?

[BerenTebogo]

I think it should be noted for those with a trigger happy scroll finger that 65% of the people think this is too expensive.

This blows my mind, seriously.

Do that many people on this forum thing farming beehive chips or attempting to win lots of a dragon blood or dragon heart once a day are the only ways to make gil?

[NynJa]

BRP read my post if you think Dynamis is too expensive...

Uh? I said it's too expensive?

Ok, I'll repost...

When dynamis was first introduced, gil back then was at its approximatively same value as it is today. Coins sold at LESS than they do today. Back then you could find any single for 4k-5k a pop. On my server today, Bynes seem to go for 3k, Bronze for 6k, Jades for 8k. The knowledge of dynamis back then was not as great as it is today, neither were the caliber of players, both gear wise and merit wise. As such, the potential coin outcome in any given run was nowhere near the potential coin outcome today, barring luck on 100 drops.

No one complained back then, why start now ? Unless thats your leakovagoo working its magic as usual.

[Melchiah]

i think another part of the problem that alleya might have had in mind was regarding the constant gil drain from the economy. add up the 2 mill drained out of the economy by every shell that does dynamis, and there's a huge amount of gil leaving the economy that's not returning fast enough. eventually, dynamis will be to expensive for everyone

It's not just Dynamis... it's Dynamis + GS Bans (+other stuff, but those two are the biggest). There needs to be more methods to get gil into the game. I've always thought crafters being able to sell(NPC) their own crafting results for more gil than usual would be a great way to do it. Would GS be able to tap into such new methods that introduce gil? Yes, but they get banned and we reap the benefits.

People overlook that most NMs DO drop gil.

Tarasque for example drops 27k + skins worth about 100k every time you kill him. Lindwurm / TT same gil amount about, and that's just all in same relative area in IC and you can kill all 3 in 2-3 hours easy.

There's plenty of mobs that drop enough gil to make farming them a good source of gil, but I'd love to be able to NPC some 90+ NQs for more than 2k gil.

I think the point BRP was trying to make is that there is not enough new gil being introduced into the game to compensate for what is leaving it. Dynamis, Limbus, OP use, NPC warps are all gil sinks. Obviously Dynamis and Limbus are the larger in terms of volume of gil removed per unit of time among those I listed. Selling Tarasque skins at the AH does not introduce new gil. It simply causes that gil to change from the buyer's hand to the seller's, less the AH fee. Here you are counting on that buyer to have the gil to pay you for the skins, i.e. it has to come from somewhere. That 100K skin does not introduce new gil into the economy, it only moves around an existing supply.

As for my feelings on the issue at hand, I'd probably get trashed here just like I do whenever I bring this up to LS leadership, but here goes:

I think:

-- Dynamis is old. Outdated. Obsolete.

When we farm dynamis, we do Xarcabard almost exclusively. We had a freak run about two months back wherein three RDM hats dropped. That took care of most of our remaining career RDMs who needed that piece. Most of us in Particle have the Dynamis gear we *need*, now we are pretty much dressing up mannequins, AF2ing our 8th jobs, and farming DL for rings and mantles. I'm actually getting tired of Dynamis. I've been doing it for 3 years, and it just isn't fun anymore. The best part of Dynamis to me now is skilling up weapons for other jobs. To me, I am past the need for Dynamis; it seems more and more to me to be content that should be left behind for the new players. Now I know this won't happen, because people want relics and mannequin gears, these are just my thoughts on the issue.

[BerenTebogo]

Ok, point taken, but it doesn't change the fact that killing him 4x or him + 3 other NMs in most dungeons will introduce 100,000 new gil.

As we speak I'm currently farming 2-300k a day on the low end of 100% new to the market gil dropped solely from NM's as NIN/THF, it's not terribly hard just requires a little bti of dedication, I still make all my events.

[Khalil]

Ok, point taken, but it doesn't change the fact that killing him 4x or him + 3 other NMs in most dungeons will introduce 100,000 new gil.

As we speak I'm currently farming 2-300k a day on the low end of 100% new to the market gil dropped solely from NM's as NIN/THF, it's not terribly hard just requires a little bti of dedication, I still make all my events.

It still doesn't change the fact that EVERYTHING dropped in price, including Limbus entry fee. So, why shouldn't Dynamis drop in price after maintaining a mil price tag for the past 5 years now? Quite simple, there isn't as much gil as there was before back in 2004 or 2005. I honestly don't see your argument how if we decrease the entre fee it would overflow, it's already at that stage.

[Gere]

Why is nynja the only one who hasn't caught a case of the 'Zams here?

[Veli]

Dynamis is too long and it does cost too much. Well at least for my group it cost too much i mean going in with 20 people and paying 50k each sucks. I wish it was like limbus where each player paid a certain amount so you could farm with smaller groups.

[BerenTebogo]

Ok, point taken, but it doesn't change the fact that killing him 4x or him + 3 other NMs in most dungeons will introduce 100,000 new gil.

As we speak I'm currently farming 2-300k a day on the low end of 100% new to the market gil dropped solely from NM's as NIN/THF, it's not terribly hard just requires a little bti of dedication, I still make all my events.

It still doesn't change the fact that EVERYTHING dropped in price, including Limbus entry fee. So, why shouldn't Dynamis drop in price after maintaining a mil price tag for the past 5 years now? Quite simple, there isn't as much gil as there was before back in 2004 or 2005. I honestly don't see your argument how if we decrease the entre fee it would overflow, it's already at that stage.

It's been said like 5 times already, more people making dumbass linkshells to get their own relics at 300-500k a run or w/e cockblocking longstanding linkshells. That's the overflow, and wow read what Nynja has said, he's 100% right he just says it way better than I do.

Limbus shouldn't have dropped in price btw, in my opinion, if you want homam but cant afford it, farm more, people so fucking lazy.

Edit: And if people really can't wrap their heads around not fucking with what has worked and continues to work, then yes, for the record I do support introducing NEW WAYS to bring gil into the economy.

You don't fuck with what works, you don't assfuck existing events because some people have leaky vaginas. SE should put in new venues for gil into the economy, for example raising the price of items to NPC, but until that happens let's not bend the longstanding, experienced dynamis shells over the table in the name of laziness and apathy.

[NynJa]

Ok, point taken, but it doesn't change the fact that killing him 4x or him + 3 other NMs in most dungeons will introduce 100,000 new gil.

As we speak I'm currently farming 2-300k a day on the low end of 100% new to the market gil dropped solely from NM's as NIN/THF, it's not terribly hard just requires a little bti of dedication, I still make all my events.

It still doesn't change the fact that EVERYTHING dropped in price, including Limbus entry fee. So, why shouldn't Dynamis drop in price after maintaining a mil price tag for the past 5 years now? Quite simple, there isn't as much gil as there was before back in 2004 or 2005. I honestly don't see your argument how if we decrease the entre fee it would overflow, it's already at that stage.

Because Limbus was added when inflation had taken a moderate toll on the economy, whereas, as I've allready said twice now, Dynamis was added before there were ANY forms of inflation in the economy.

Dynamis is too long and it does cost too much. Well at least for my group it cost too much i mean going in with 20 people and paying 50k each sucks. I wish it was like limbus where each player paid a certain amount so you could farm with smaller groups.

Bring more than 20 then, be able to farm more mobs (and thus more currency too) and spend less each to enter.
VOILA.

Honestly, I was thinking to myself "these retards who dont understand why dynamis wont change are probably the same retards who thinks its cool to lowman dynamis", and then I scroll across this post...

[*Shinzon*]

Its different when you choose to lowman for fun and when you lowman because thats all you have. When all inclusive linkshells farm dynamis its that way. They tend to not have the larger 40 man turn outs and keep everything inside the linkshell. So by that logic only large linkshells should be able to break even?

Thats a bit unfair and a very one-sided view of how the game is played.

[Veli]

Ok, point taken, but it doesn't change the fact that killing him 4x or him + 3 other NMs in most dungeons will introduce 100,000 new gil.

As we speak I'm currently farming 2-300k a day on the low end of 100% new to the market gil dropped solely from NM's as NIN/THF, it's not terribly hard just requires a little bti of dedication, I still make all my events.

It still doesn't change the fact that EVERYTHING dropped in price, including Limbus entry fee. So, why shouldn't Dynamis drop in price after maintaining a mil price tag for the past 5 years now? Quite simple, there isn't as much gil as there was before back in 2004 or 2005. I honestly don't see your argument how if we decrease the entre fee it would overflow, it's already at that stage.

Because Limbus was added when inflation had taken a moderate toll on the economy, whereas, as I've allready said twice now, Dynamis was added before there were ANY forms of inflation in the economy.

Dynamis is too long and it does cost too much. Well at least for my group it cost too much i mean going in with 20 people and paying 50k each sucks. I wish it was like limbus where each player paid a certain amount so you could farm with smaller groups.

Bring more than 20 then, be able to farm more mobs (and thus more currency too) and spend less each to enter.
VOILA.

I always wonder how dynamis is with over 40 people... I remember getting 802 coins in sandy with like 25 people. I actually laugh at people saying top tier players because dynamis is harder to lose than to win.

[NynJa]

I always wonder how dynamis is with over 40 people... I remember getting 802 coins in sandy with like 25 people. I actually laugh at people saying top tier players because dynamis is harder to lose than to win.

And I am willing to bet you lucked out and got 5 100's...

[Ein]

newfags. you realize the economy now is more similar to what the economy was when dynamis was added to the game on 2004?

it's not getting lowered. sorry you can't buy the glass from IGE for $10 anymore. :<

also, dynamis is not a top tier event aimed at uber players. ESPECIALLY not on the jp side, where you have dozens and dozens of casual players who log on twice a week JUST to do dynamis and perhaps only a few hours beyond that to hang out with friends.

they're doing to keep it small to prevent small group farming so the price of currency doesn't crash. they need to instance it though. /sigh

[Not Kuno]

newfags. you realize the economy now is more similar to what the economy was when dynamis was added to the game on 2004?

I love it when people say this but forget that currency was like 3-5x more then it is now. IT'S THE SAME GUYZ

[Ein]

newfags. you realize the economy now is more similar to what the economy was when dynamis was added to the game on 2004?

I love it when people say this but forget that currency was like 3-5x more then it is now. IT'S THE SAME GUYZ

on my server its the same as it was when it was added and people figured out what to do with things.

[NynJa]

newfags. you realize the economy now is more similar to what the economy was when dynamis was added to the game on 2004?

I love it when people say this but forget that currency was like 3-5x more then it is now. IT'S THE SAME GUYZ

Actually its the same price...
Dynamis currency started to go up in value when inflation started to kick in.

I started working on my relic around the end of 2004, start of 2005, I was still finding currency for 4-6k a pop when I was starting on my third stage.

[Veli]

I always wonder how dynamis is with over 40 people... I remember getting 802 coins in sandy with like 25 people. I actually laugh at people saying top tier players because dynamis is harder to lose than to win.

And I am willing to bet you lucked out and got 5 100's...

got 6 m silvers that run. actually when i think about it the price of dynamis aint that bad. I just think 1m for a small group is crazy. I wish you could farm with a small group for a lower price tho. I like how limbus is paid per player instead of by group.