Public opinion: Is dynamis too expensive?

[BerenTebogo]

Being able to get the MOST out of every dynamis run is top tier, killing the sandoria boss with 3 minutes left on the clock and 85% of your members going WOOO GOT FLAG isn't.

Dynamis is a top tier event if you play it to be one, it's also a nub event with epic wipes and battle-to-the-death's against SMN mobs with 500 total HP if that's how you play it.

I think that's all anyone is saying regarding which level playing dynamis is regarded as

[Doofus]

I don't even want to touch that last paragraph. It emits badness.

ashamed to say it but i agree with this guy about that paragraph, if you say golf doesnt require skill then you just voided your whole post and have to start over to gain intelligence points, also nobody dies in golf, bad comparison, besides the always bad comparing ffxi to real life.

anyways, if you give someone a relic and they leave the LS, then sorry but you are doing it wrong(cue witty picture)

if you want to make enough currency to cover all cop dynamis entry costs, you are saying you want your cake and wanna eat it too, cop dynamis drops some neat stuff, pld cape is just awesome as well as many other items that drop, you buy something from AH, you dont go around saying 'hey this is too expensive, why isnt someone paying for this, so i dont have to loose any net gil to get this good piece of equip'

also @sath, since when is being a noob and dying in an epic show of noobness a valid excuse to complain about something?
noob LSs die to fafhogg, but nobody says 'FAF IS TOO HARD ZOMG!' because it isnt if the people you do it with have half a brain

[aurik]

A top-teir dynamis will regularly get 150-200 singles (read: profit before counting 100s) in a city with just 18 people; stop complaining about dynamis being "too expensive".

[BerenTebogo]

Oh sorry I didn't mean to imply it was a valid excuse in any way, I just meant to imply those weren't the people playing dynamis at 'top tier' level.

I don't think that just because you can't stun a god damn SMN you should have to pay less for dynamis. If anything you should have to relevel your job 1-75 again.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Dynamis used to be cheap back when you could get 50m+ from a sky run. 25m Shining Cloth, 6m V.claws, 4m Behemoth Hides...

1 Sky run would pay for over a dozen Dynamises!

[*Shinzon*]

I think people are misunderstanding something. Dynamis may not be too expensive itself. 1,000,000g is a fairly reasonable fee. However, When selling currency at 8,000g a piece 150 coins is a total of 1,200,000g. So essentially that being the average coin outcome, an LS would need to farm 4 city runs to do a zone where you expect large loss.

That in my opinion is too expensive with the way currency is selling. My point remains that the amount of gil that can be accessed by people upgrading is becoming less as deflation continues and thus will require coins to be sold for less requiring more to be farmed even by those "top" tier standards.

[BRP]

I think people are misunderstanding something. Dynamis may not be too expensive itself. 1,000,000g is a fairly reasonable fee. However, When selling currency at 8,000g a piece 150 coins is a total of 1,200,000g. So essentially that being the average coin outcome, an LS would need to farm 4 city runs to do a zone where you expect large loss.

That in my opinion is too expensive with the way currency is selling. My point remains that the amount of gil that can be accessed by people upgrading is becoming less as deflation continues and thus will require coins to be sold for less requiring more to be farmed even by those "top" tier standards.

This is where 100 pieces come in. You are very likely to obtain 2 or 3 over 4 runs.

[Skeetaru]

I think people are misunderstanding something. Dynamis may not be too expensive itself. 1,000,000g is a fairly reasonable fee. However, When selling currency at 8,000g a piece 150 coins is a total of 1,200,000g. So essentially that being the average coin outcome, an LS would need to farm 4 city runs to do a zone where you expect large loss.

That in my opinion is too expensive with the way currency is selling. My point remains that the amount of gil that can be accessed by people upgrading is becoming less as deflation continues and thus will require coins to be sold for less requiring more to be farmed even by those "top" tier standards.

This is where you say OH HEY WE GET AF2 HERE, why do you have to get coins,af2 and buttseks from dynamis from your 1M, where does it say that?

[Rentwokay]

The high price wouldn't be so much of an issue if, instead of there being 100 Dynamis linkshells on every server averaging 25 people a run, there were closer to 20 averaging 50-60 participants per run. Not a week goes by when somebody isn't sitting in Whitegate shouting about their new Dynamis or Sky linkshell.

But people don't want to wait for their gear any longer. And I'm not even talking about people that want to upgrade Relic Shield or something so they create a linkshell to finance it. I'm talking about the people who got kicked from their old Dynamis shell when they were next on the line for PLD AF2 Feet, and they were so bitter about it, they started recruiting.

Regardless of what your linkshell does, there's always going to be a small group of "elite" groups that know what they're doing and see a return on their investment, and then there's going to be the mass of underachievers that do nothing but cockblock other shells out of the zones and dilute the talent pool. All because of impatience on the part of the organizers.

The thing that strikes me most about these discussions, however, is how everyone always mentions how the prices of currency and crafting materials are dropping, as if unbuckling the Hourglass price would suddenly solve all this. Currency prices and, thus, relic weapon prices are going to drop even further if the Hourglass price drops. Do we want all crafting materials to be throwaways and every currency piece to cost 1000 gil or less? 150mil relic weapons? Let's bump that down a notch to 15 million. Let's make it so some mule with capped gil can get one of every Relic weapon.

The hourglass price is fine. What people need to do is stop trying to make money like they did at the peak of inflation and start adapting to the new economy. Things have been this way for almost a year now, and people are still bitching about it because they don't bother to adapt.

[BerenTebogo]

AKA what I've been saying for the past 4 pages: Get off your asses and farm you lazy cocks.

Rentwokay said it really well, so kudos.

[Tekki]

If everyone was on the same plane as the top tiered Dynamis players, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Sure some sped can be "pont and kill" told by a leader to win a city zone, but only the best are going pull off a successful dynamis rounds where everything is paid for, produce a profit to pay for non-coinage zones, pull lots of AF out of any zone and take advantage of absolutely everything Dynamis has to offer, including DL farms, wins, relics, CoP/Tav zone runs, etc.

There is a clear difference between people who are simply playing in Dynamis zones and those who are taking complete and full advantage of everything Dynamis has to offer. People who don't do this will complain about costs and drop rate. The only thing the better players complain about is time slots taken from trash LSs wasting a zone.

The bottom line is this. If the cost of dynamis is in question with your group, you are doing something wrong. I repeat, YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. If you are not using dynamis resources to pay for the runs themselves, then you are doing it wrong. If you agree to this arguement, then the only other argument I can come up with is that the 1m bled out of the system per run needs to be countered with more gil producing methods brought along by SE.

Another thing to add. What IF they bring down the price... Lets say 750k... 500k.... What then? Based on some arguments (the only valid one in this thread) you are STILL bleeding the system by large quantities of gil... just at a slower rate. Lets say they do this at the end of August. Then guess what? In November we will still be evaluating the same problem, yet again.

The case should be closed on the dynamis costs at this point. It seems to me that a large majority of the "Yes reduce cost" votes are simply not thinking this out. The problem is not where they think it is.

Again, I'll reiterate my point.

I'm for whatever Squenix will keep the playerbase playing as long as possible. If the majority of linkshells are unable to maintain a strict dynamis fund, then they should change it. If the majority of players are able to maintain a dynamis fund regularly to pay for all the zones, then keep it. Dynamis itself is a static event - it doesn't change. Just because one linkshell is super fantastic at clearing everything in a zone doesn't make that the average. It's not about your linkshell. Nor is it about the stupid little flash-in-the-pan linkshells that have cockblocked our linkshell's fucking Saturday and preventing us from doing any fucking zone as they sit in there for 1.5 hours and ruin everybody's day (fucking Hades). It shouldn't be catered to either group; but instead what the average linkshell can accomplish in that time.

I don't think this is unreasonable. And for what it's worth, I think the average dyna-linkshell is able to sustain itself. It's really not that hard to. Which brings me to my other point:

Dynamis is not a top-tier event for top-tier players. Just because you're really good at something does not justify it as being top-tier. You could be Tiger Woods, and at the end of the day, you're still playing golf. Are we really at the point now where we're accepting golf as an awesome, entertaining sport, full of challenge and skill? :D

"Reiterating your post" is another way of saying "Running around in circles" I dont mean to sound nasty but your ignoring my major points. Seems like all you read was me going "blah blah im the best, you all should be like me, problem solved" When my point was this. Stop evaluating the Dynamis situation as a problem on SE's side and instead think about the possibility that redirecting how players govern their dynamis runs could be a very easy solution.

I also asked how a price cut can create a long term solution?... B/c it cannot.

And why is that?

Because the problem IS NOT IN THE COSTs. I stand on the side of the argument that says that SE's influence needs to focus outside of the real of dynamis, particularly on how to provide more gil on the servers. Only then will there be a long term solution to this problem.

Its at that point alone should be a solid fact. That said, you are trying to put in play a solution that divides opinions and does not provide a long term solution. So why do it?

Why do feel so adamant about this?

I've been helping run the dynamis aspect of my LS for 2 1/2 years now. Its been under my responsibility for nearly a year now. In that time our point and cost system has been reworked many times, in an attempt to create perfection. Within the past 6months or so I think we've pretty much closed in on this goal. With a solid LS, with proper management, cost is the LEAST of issues. Then you can worry about everything else that comes with dynamis responsibilities. Let me repeat that... Cost is the least of my worries in dynamis. I'm using this experience to try and establish some solid arguments and solutions to this thread.

If you want to further argue this, answer these questions: How will lowering costs provide a long term solution? (Remember, you are still sucking gil out of the economy, but now only at a somewhat slower rate)

If you don't think that will work, then move on to this "lowering the price argument...:" and talk about other solutions or see what the real problem is.

[Dezzimal]

They need to increase the flow of gil into the economy through quests rewards, increasing vendor prices on certain farmable items (hello rusty caps), or just straight up cash drops from hnm/limbus/salvage/einherjar/dynamis. Basically at its current stage gil is flowing out of the economy faster than it is coming in. People paying for dynamis/limbus, getting banned or quitting all have an effect on it.

[Tekki]

Whatever they do. Keep the new gil sources under controllable areas, to keep them from RMT.

[Demosthenes11]

I'd say something hear, but Tekki has said it all

[Ein]

i'm still floored at people calling dynamis a "top tier endgame event" because they're butthurt someone cockblocked their xarc run.

the short answer to this thread is that if you have not been involved with dynamis since 2004, shut the fuck up. instancing could fix the problems, instead of having a bunch of people running around acting like their LS is somehow more worthy to enter their precious 3 year old event.

yeah IT SUCKS when someone blocks your run with a shout group and you have a bunch of 360 kids shouting "PWNTLOL," and I never thought I would hear anything dumber until I saw you winners acting like your event is somehow more important than theirs. BECAUSE WE'RE TOP TIER ENDGAME PLAYERS LOL WHO STILL HAVEN'T MANAGED TO FINISH FARMING OUT A THREEYEAR AREA?_?

[alphacat]

Look they're not going to instance dynamis. Instancing it will need a revamp on the whole dynamis system and will result in a flood of currency/relic. In fact lowering the price of dynamis is also very troublesome. Basically if it's cheaper to do, more ppl will do it, and zones will be more congested.

[BRP]

It's not top tier event.

My LS doesn't camp anything at all and we are pretty inexperience in Salvage(not credible endgame players har har har). Not to say we are morons, but we are differently not a top LS. And you know what? We always profit from cities. You have to be stupid(after some experience) not to, and that's the point.

[Khajit]

The ls I'm in has 100c freelot to people not mainlottingg relic that night and we still manage to afford 4 northlands and 1 COP run a month. I simply do not understand how somone can say affording to buy the hourglass is hard.

[Ravenlokk]

If u want fast progress with little/no effort to get your go play WOW. Dynamis is allready a profit currency wise unless your LS fails miserably and u wipe without getting extensions. Relics arent supposed to be easy to get, and currency is already cheap enough. Lowing the price will just put more gil in RMT coffers while they sell currency to real players, not to mention it will devalue the relics of people who actually worked for them when they were still hard to get.

Just because u cant afford shit doesn't mean its too expensive, maybe u should just try harder instead of crying to make things easier. Can farm over a mil a day doing NMs and vendoring shit for straight gil.

[Alisha]

in my ls dynamis is free so i cant really say.