Melee as RDM

[Whatinthe]

I was wondering how a RDM would fare meleeing in a merit party. Looking for opinions on setup, as well as how well you think it would hold up against "other" DDs.

How would you gear yourself up? Not including relics/hydra gear, what would you use for weapon? Which sub would you use? WS? What spells would you cast/not cast?

And finally, how would you think it'd fare up against other melees? Say, against AH WAR, Ridill WAR, and, ummm, PLD/NIN? If you want to specify camp or the other target, then please say so.

This isn't about whether RDM should or should not melee. Basically, I'm asking what you think would needed to gear up a RDM to be able to act as a DD, and I'd like this community's input in it.

Thanks.

[Karinastar]

RDM/NIN with Blau/Joy and decent DD gear is ok. RDM/WAR with a Joyeuse can be ok too. For DDing I'd use something like:

Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: PCC
Ears: Brutal/Suppa
Body: Pahluwan
Hands: Dusk
Rings: Snipers
Back: Forager's Mantle
Waist: Speed/Swift Belt
Legs: Dusk (or Nashira for 2% more haste but I'd probably stick with Dusk)
Feet: Dusk

That gives you 16% haste with NQs and a decent chunk of attack (which RDM needs). Even with full merits in Dagger and Sword, meat on RDM DD is probably a lost cause. WS gear, I dunno... RDM doesn't have a huge number of options for really good WS gear. If subbing NIN, spam Evisceration with Blau/Joy. If subbing WAR, use Vorpal Blade. I dunno about using Joy/Justice with NIN sub, I don't think the added DoT would make up for the utterly craptastic WSes that RDM gets with sword naturally.

Compared to other DDs on purely damage, you'd probably be able to hold your own against Walmart WARs and NINs. Wouldn't have a chance against a well-geared "real" DD, and PLD/NIN has more DD potential as well. Ridill WAR, BB MNK, Speed Belt NIN and so on would be completely out of your league.

[Whatinthe]

Compared to other DDs on purely damage, you'd probably be able to hold your own against Walmart WARs and NINs. Wouldn't have a chance against a well-geared "real" DD, and PLD/NIN has more DD potential as well. Ridill WAR, BB MNK, Speed Belt NIN and so on would be completely out of your league.

So figure, 80% of Walmart, 50% of "real" DD? Something close to that?

[theo]

My experience meleeing as RDM is limited to EM at most, anything greater I sleep/nuke it.... and I have never bothered to try in a merit pt Nevertheless this is what I would use if I had the motivation to.

I would personally suggest subbing WAR. Joytoy on its own will do more DoT than dual wielding dagger/joy, not to mention the big boost you will see from Berserk. The only real advantage that /NIN would give you is shadows, and if you are honest with yourself you know you probably won't be pulling hate from the real melees anyway so thats a moot point

As for spells, I would probably keep it to a minimum. I'm going to assume that there is another support mage present, meaning you shouldn't have to worry about hasting the melees. I would keep myself refreshed, hasted, enspelled, and stoneskinned, and leave the rest of the spell casting to the back line people.

TP

Joytoy/Spiked Buckler
Walmart Turban
Nashira Manteel, Pahluwan, or Assault Jerkin (whatever suits your tastes)
Amemet +1
Chiv Chain
Dusk Gloves
Swift Belt
Brutal Earring
Suppa
Rajas
Sniper
Nashira Seraweels
Dusk Feet

Vorpal Blade

O Hat
Pahluwan or Assault Jerkin
Amemet +1
Chiv Chain
Tarasque Mitts +1
Life Belt
Brutal
Suppa
Rajas
Sniper
Dusk Legs (or feral if you're cheap like me )
Ogre Feet

[Carnusty]

Personally, if I decided to have fun with melee RDM (And had the options, really...) I'd do Justice/Joy with ubar enhancing setup for EN-spell damage. It seems to me that en-spells would be a good chunk of a RDM melee's damage rather than WSs o-O

I base this off watching a RDM/NIN in a 60~ish party dual-dagger outparse a Ninja. The ninja was gimp equipped, though.

^ on Lesser Colibri btw.

[BRP]

Personally, if I decided to have fun with melee RDM (And had the options, really...) I'd do Justice/Joy with ubar enhancing setup for EN-spell damage. It seems to me that en-spells would be a good chunk of a RDM melee's damage rather than WSs o-O

I base this off watching a RDM/NIN in a 60~ish party dual-dagger outparse a Ninja. The ninja was gimp equipped, though.

^ on Lesser Colibri btw.

Couldn't you just swap out enhancing gear after casting?

[Carnusty]

Personally, if I decided to have fun with melee RDM (And had the options, really...) I'd do Justice/Joy with ubar enhancing setup for EN-spell damage. It seems to me that en-spells would be a good chunk of a RDM melee's damage rather than WSs o-O

I base this off watching a RDM/NIN in a 60~ish party dual-dagger outparse a Ninja. The ninja was gimp equipped, though.

^ on Lesser Colibri btw.

Couldn't you just swap out enhancing gear after casting?

Well yeah, that's what I was implying >:3 but no one here mention en-spell damage so I was like o-O

[Niiro]

Ridill WAR, BB MNK, Speed Belt NIN and so on would be completely out of your league.

I found that funny.

Anyway.

If you do try this I just gotta say for the love of god not in a pickup PT, make a LS PT or of other people you know who will endure the foolishness.

And make sure you have a BRD, you'll probably be using sushi and as an RDM your ATK will be craptastic.

I'd say Blau/Joy is your best bet, you keep your best WS and the DoT and TP from Joytoy.

[Isiolia]

I haven't done this much, but there has been that odd LS screwaround party...all PLDs and RDMs type stuff...

How would you gear yourself up? Not including relics/hydra gear, what would you use for weapon? Which sub would you use? WS? What spells would you cast/not cast?

I'd say setup as a whole would go towards speed, since En- can be adding a nice chunk of DoT to make up for slightly lower per-hit damage.

IMO, weapon setup:
Justice/Joy
Blau/Joy

or single wield Justice or Joy. When I've gone, I was /WAR, which worked pretty well. If you're truly trying to be a DD, you need to focus entirely on that. Haste + En-spell + Refresh would be the only stuff you'd really be casting a lot for self-buffing, outside of SS/Utsu as needed. Healing as a backup.
I think you could manage Dia II to save your healer from needing to do it.

And finally, how would you think it'd fare up against other melees? Say, against AH WAR, Ridill WAR, and, ummm, PLD/NIN? If you want to specify camp or the other target, then please say so.

My experience has been against PLDs, and suffice to say I outparsed 2 out of 3 of them. Based on that, and from numerous RDM DD threads on*cough* less preferred forums, I'd say that a well set up RDM melee has a good chance of being on par with a solid, but not exceptional, PLD/NIN DD.

If you completely focus on being a melee DD as a RDM, you can do quite decently. Not on par with good/great DDs, but there are certainly a good number of gimpy AH ones you could shame.
Honestly though, I think that goes for nearly any job (maybe not SMN and BLM).

[Demitrius]

I would personally go /NIN with Blau/Joyeuse and loads of +acc. Two reasons: One, dagger/sword gives you a lot of en-spell bang for your buck. Two, Eviscerate rips apart flying mobs. Leading me to my next point... Colibri, yes. Mire, yes. Thickets, against Mamools, doubtful. Colibri may actually be your best bet, as they're remarkably squishy, and your food will likely not be taken very often if your party is decent.

Truth is, you're not going to stack up to the best DDs by a longshot, but in a party where everyone is getting the same attack boost from Minuet, you're going to gain more benefit than the 500 attack WAR in the corner. The more boosts the party gains from BRD and COR buffs, the better you'll compare, thanks to diminishing returns.


Oh, and the other alternative: Hornetneedle/Beestinger on Puks with Enaero. If your party pisses you off, this is what you do.

[Loren]

The potential is a lot higher than most people realize, but it requires no less effort than another DD job.

I've tried a lot of different things, and Blau/Joy always come out on top for me (Lv4 sword merit, Lv8 dagger merit, YMMV). It's a nice balance between rapid En-element damage and strong WS. RDM/WAR is decent, but Vorpal with a D35 sword isn't anything like what you see from a PLD or BLU. RDM/NIN with two swords is left with no real weaponskill.

You want to capitalize on the En-element damage since that's your one unique trait, so resign yourself to sushi, load up on Haste gear, and bring at least 280 Enhancing skill swap gear (moreso for the resist rate than the +2 damage). Get Hollow if you can, and Convert yourself into yellow HP for Fencer's Ring. If you have space, obi set with matching day will also stabilize your En-element damage and accuracy (up to guaranteed 30 -> 33 if you have Merciful Cape).

The hardest part about RDM Haste set is getting Nashira pants + Nashira or Goliard body (and Swift belt if you have my luck). After those, you can fill out the rest with common DD gear. Furthermore, any slot with Haste needs to be swapped out during WS. Good Evisceration items include: Ogre Mask+1, Assault Jerkin, Tarasque Mitts+1, Rajas + Thunder or Flame, Warwolf belt, Dusk or AF2 pants, Ogre Ledelsens+1.

[Septimus]

One of these days I would love to try out meleeing on RDM in a merit party. I still have a lot of gear that I need to get before I would try though. (Mostly Dusk hands, legs, and feet.) I also want to try a 4 RDM/NIN and 2 BRD party just to see how that would fare.

[Whatinthe]

The potential is a lot higher than most people realize, but it requires no less effort than another DD job.

You want to capitalize on the En-element damage since that's your one unique trait, so resign yourself to sushi, load up on Haste gear, and bring at least 280 Enhancing skill swap gear (moreso for the resist rate than the +2 damage). Get Hollow if you can, and Convert yourself into yellow HP for Fencer's Ring. If you have space, obi set with matching day will also stabilize your En-element damage and accuracy (up to guaranteed 30 -> 33 if you have Merciful Cape).

Seems like you've done a lot of effort in this dept. Have you parsed against other DDs at all? How did it turn out?

I see quotes like "not by a long shot" and "out of your league". Are BB MNK and Ridill WAR that powerful that I'd have no chance of doing anything close to what they can dish out?

Just curious.

[solsovly]

The potential is a lot higher than most people realize, but it requires no less effort than another DD job.

You want to capitalize on the En-element damage since that's your one unique trait, so resign yourself to sushi, load up on Haste gear, and bring at least 280 Enhancing skill swap gear (moreso for the resist rate than the +2 damage). Get Hollow if you can, and Convert yourself into yellow HP for Fencer's Ring. If you have space, obi set with matching day will also stabilize your En-element damage and accuracy (up to guaranteed 30 -> 33 if you have Merciful Cape).

Seems like you've done a lot of effort in this dept. Have you parsed against other DDs at all? How did it turn out?

I see quotes like "not by a long shot" and "out of your league". Are BB MNK and Ridill WAR that powerful that I'd have no chance of doing anything close to what they can dish out?

Just curious.

You won't compare to them, but don't think your aim should be trying to compare to a BB MNK or a Ridill. I wouldn't be surprised if you could do similarly to a decent melee and better than some of the pick up DD's you see.

[bebeci]

One of these days I would love to try out meleeing on RDM in a merit party. I still have a lot of gear that I need to get before I would try though. (Mostly Dusk hands, legs, and feet.) I also want to try a 4 RDM/NIN and 2 BRD party just to see how that would fare.

Any Mandaus? :D

[Neosutra]

I was wondering how a RDM would fare meleeing in a merit party. Looking for opinions on setup, as well as how well you think it would hold up against "other" DDs.

How would you gear yourself up? Not including relics/hydra gear, what would you use for weapon? Which sub would you use? WS? What spells would you cast/not cast?

And finally, how would you think it'd fare up against other melees? Say, against AH WAR, Ridill WAR, and, ummm, PLD/NIN? If you want to specify camp or the other target, then please say so.

This isn't about whether RDM should or should not melee. Basically, I'm asking what you think would needed to gear up a RDM to be able to act as a DD, and I'd like this community's input in it.

Thanks.

Assuming the best geared rdm possible:

How well it would do against other melees: Horrfic, even enspells and/or excal your DoT will be atrocious.

How would you gear yourself up: Same as everything else, haste/acc for tp, attack/str/acc for WS. A nice tp setup mixed with vorpal setup would do ok, but your lacking any serious DD gear and no attack boost JAs. Youll be kind of like a melee pld w/o the decent gear options and crappier combat stats.

How would you fair against certain melees: AH war would blow you away, Ridill war would make you sell your melee equipment and lvl a melee job as you should be doing if you wanted to melee in meripo. Pld/nin, would still beat you, but at least he wont embarrass you as much since you two will be attacking at roughly the same speed, just he will be doing more damage.

Rdm/nin is fun, and usefull for alot of things. Meripo... no.

[theo]

To my knowledge you can't parse enspell dmg (unless they fixed it?) so it would be hard to get a concrete idea of how well you did in the party.

Concerning dual wielding joy/justice... I don't own a Justice Sword, so my opinion on it is completely speculation. But my hypothesis has always been that Joy with /WAR will out-damage it based on access to a better WS and Berserk. If you dual wield 2 swords you are limiting yourself to lolSavage Blade.

And if I had to estimate, I would say that the added double attack(loledit) trait from /WAR would probably match up to the bonus from dual wield, or at least come pretty close to it.

Granted this is all totally not parsed, so take it how you will.

[Neosutra]

To my knowledge you can't parse enspell dmg (unless they fixed it?) so it would be hard to get a concreted idea of how well you did in the party.

Concerning dual wielding joy/justice... I don't own a Justice Sword, so my opinion on it is completely speculation. But my hypothesis has always been that Joy with /war will out-damage it based on access to a better WS and Berserk. If you dual wield 2 swords you are limiting yourself to lolSavage Blade.

And if I had to estimate, I would say that the added dual wield trait from /WAR would probably match up to the bonus from dual wield, or at least come pretty close to it.

Granted this is all totally not parsed, so take it how you will.

I assume you meant the added double attack from /war, not dual weild.

And yes, with only dualweild 2, the tp gain increase will be about equal to double attack increase, so it wont matter too much. Berzerk will help as well. And dont worry about taking hate, as youll almost never have the mobs attention as a meleeing rdm with joytoy and enspells over a zerked war/nin/mnk.

I would say a really good rdm melee would do about 1/5 of a good melee and a bout 1/4 of an average melee.

[theo]

Oh yeah, meant double attack. Silly me <.<;

[Whatinthe]

You won't compare to them, but don't think your aim should be trying to compare to a BB MNK or a Ridill. I wouldn't be surprised if you could do similarly to a decent melee and better than some of the pick up DD's you see.

Why not? As a DD, don't you compare your damage output to that of the top-tier DD, ie. Ridill or BB MNK? How should it be any different for RDM?

So far, couple of posts said that it could compare favorably to other AH DD, to a low of 20% output compared to a Ridill-class DD. I'd really hope that a RDM wouldn't parse that low, but I'm sure Neosutra has his reasons for coming to that conclusion.