Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Quizno]

It means basically Hundred Fists speed.

What are you basing this on?

[SeraphusRagnarok]

One attack per frame...60 frames per second geez. Now 2-8 attacks per frame with KC. DRK could solo Vrtra, it's HP would stream smoothly from 100% to 0% in several seconds I bet lol

[Amele]

I mean: 40% SV march + 15% haste + 20% gear => 70% (haste cap)

No, that would equal 63.3% haste.

SV March + haste = 43.3% not 55%.

You then add that to 20% (or whatever number up to the 25% equipment cap)

did I miss something?

march I 7
march II 9
haste 15

march I + march II + instrument bonus x2 = 7 + 9 + 4 = 20
SV that = 40
+15 haste.

or did I miss a test somewhere that showed that they didn't stack quite right? (in which case, reference please. I'd like to understand this)

[Quizno]

Just do a search.

The magic/song haste cap is 43.3%.

[evilpaul]

But Haste+50% is proven to doubles your attack speed, so why would Slow 100% half your attack speed. I dont get it.

(I really thought this was intuitive, but ok )

here: delay = 450 (samurai)
haste: 50%

delay = delay * (1 - haste) => 450 * (0.5) = 225

225/450 = 1/2 (so you go twice as fast.)
-----------------------------------------------
slow = 100% (haste = -100%)

delay = delay * (1 - haste) => 450 * (2) = 900

900/450 = 2 (so you go half as fast.)



tl;dr : math is why it works this way *shrugs*

I thought 50% Haste would have your delay from 450 -> 300?

[Godlywargod]

hundred fists doesn't give 100% haste....or at least not from what I've seen, hundred fists with more martial arts traits is faster then with less. If it was the same THEN it would give 100% haste.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

I wonder if Spirit Surge's +15% attack speed bonus stacks on top of the current haste cap.

[divisortheory]

I thought 50% Haste would have your delay from 450 -> 300?

No, but 50% slow would take your delay from 300 -> 450.

[Quizno]

That same question was asked on the DB thread on KI.

The person was told to test it and come back with an answer...and never did.

Someone be a hero!

[Spider-Dan]

Really? What does it mean?

It means basically Hundred Fists speed. Haste+100% means Weapon Delay-100% means Weapon Delay=0 --> Hundred Fists speed.

Hundred Fists is not 0 delay. Hundred Fists with Spartans (or a staff) is significantly slower than Hundred Fists with Vishnu.

If Hundred Fists were really 0 delay, then there would be no difference between HF barehanded and HF+KC. The latter is dramatically faster.

[Spider-Dan]

One attack per frame...60 frames per second geez.

That would be 1 delay, not 0.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Kraken Club wouldnt matter if HF was 0 delay. That'd be like saying Infinity+8 > Infinity

[divisortheory]

If Hundred Fists were really 0 delay, then there would be no difference between HF barehanded and HF+KC. The latter is dramatically faster.

Well maybe it's not 0Delay, although I still think it probably is. HF+KC would still be faster than HF barehanded though, even if it were 0 delay. KC generates extra attacks per attack round, while Hundred Fists increases the frequency of attack rounds. There is obviously a certain base amount of "earth time" associated with a single attack round at Delay 0. HF+KC is faster because it gets up to 8 attacks into the same same base interval, whereas HF barehanded would still just get 1 attack into that interval.

Kraken Club wouldnt matter if HF was 0 delay. That'd be like saying Infinity+8 > Infinity

So you seriously think that 0 delay means 0 earth time? that doesn't even make sense, computers can't even operate on units of 0 earth time.

[Quizno]

someone post a funny photoshopped picture of a grip with fake stats and get this thread back on track >.>

[Therin]

If 100% Haste= attack infinitly, does 100% Slow= never attack?

I'm curious about Full Heca + Stage 1Relic Weapon + Massacre Elegy + Slow

I'm sure there's a Slow cap just like there's a Haste cap. It's probably 95%, since it seems like everything else is "capped" at 95% (resist rates, for instance, like a level 37 DRK casting Stun on Kirin should still theoretically land it 5% of the time).

Lol @ 98.3% delay reduction. >_> That's a delay of 8. 7.5 swings per second, with each swing hitting twice. 15 swings per second at 250 damage a pop - 3,750 damage per second. 112,500 damage in the time that Blood Weapon is active.

Now we know how the GM soloed Vrtra when it popped at Spook camp. :3

[aurik]

0 delay means that the next attack can start in 0 frames. If the system was re-entrant (doubtful) then this would cause an infinite loop, as the system would basically continually perform attacks for the person with 0 delay. Or, at least until the target was dead. So with 0 delay and a re-entrant system, anything you could damage would be killable in a single frame. Anything you couldn't damage would cause the system to hang.

More likely, each person only gets considered for attacks once per frame, meaning a 0 delay would lead to effectively the same as 1 delay: every frame, the player will be ready to attack.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Your crazy moon logic scares me!

[Therin]

0 delay means that the next attack can start in 0 frames. If the system was re-entrant (doubtful) then this would cause an infinite loop, as the system would basically continually perform attacks for the person with 0 delay. Or, at least until the target was dead. So with 0 delay and a re-entrant system, anything you could damage would be killable in a single frame. Anything you couldn't damage would cause the system to hang.

More likely, each person only gets considered for attacks once per frame, meaning a 0 delay would lead to effectively the same as 1 delay: every frame, the player will be ready to attack.

The server runs at 30 FPS right? So would that mean that it's impossible to reach the hard cap on how many swings can be loaded in a single second?

(even assuming my previously ridiculous example is possible)

[aurik]

0 delay means that the next attack can start in 0 frames. If the system was re-entrant (doubtful) then this would cause an infinite loop, as the system would basically continually perform attacks for the person with 0 delay. Or, at least until the target was dead. So with 0 delay and a re-entrant system, anything you could damage would be killable in a single frame. Anything you couldn't damage would cause the system to hang.

More likely, each person only gets considered for attacks once per frame, meaning a 0 delay would lead to effectively the same as 1 delay: every frame, the player will be ready to attack.

The server runs at 30 FPS right? So would that mean that it's impossible to reach the hard cap on how many swings can be loaded in a single second?

Well 60 delay = 1 second, so it's likely that time is quantized into 60 units per RL second. Don't confuse display refresh rate with the actual speed of the simulation. Also, don't confuse the number of swings in an attack round (1-8) with the frequency of attack rounds.

[Quizno]

Some kind of cap has already been reached.

Calculate how many swings your KC should make at high haste.

Then, parse to see how many swings were actually made.

It has been tested, and is lower than theorhetical.

Best case scenario is that BZ can be equal to KC in the swings realm given enough buffing, but the swing cap has already been obtained.

The next goal? A higher base damage weapon, with higher accuracy reaching the same number.

There is nothing set in stone yet. Not enough testing has been done.