Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Rocl]

Requesting Rule 34 of Relm.
Alliteration!

Done. (NSFW obviously)

ROFL

[Priran]

I don't want anything game-breaking, nor do I want anything that makes other jobs useless. I just want something new to refresh a job I've been playing since PC release that doesn't involve merits.

The only jobs that have been updated so much as to have been revitalized are THF and PLD. There's jobs with fewer updates than RDM that aren't half as useful.

Here's an idea: if you're tired of the job you're playing, level another one.

[Lordwafik]

I'd stick Samurai in there as revamped jobs aswell.

I as a RDM do want a bit more to my job , preferably melee wise so I'm not a putrid thing poking a mob with a toothpick, but if SE creates Melee mages without compensating (putting another job that can take RDM's spot) then I wouldnt want it. Just imagine inviting RDMs who say "I'm melee only sorry".

The phrase is why fix what's not broken, but I'd also not fix what will break the game in the future.

But then again, if they ruin it and SE makes legions of meleetard RDMs, they'd be forced to fix it in the future by buffing parties to the point where a RDM isn't necessary! /silverlining

[Tonelico]

Relm.

Relm is not at all, in any way, like a puppetmaster. The "Painter" job (plus the relic that allowed her the ability to pick what skills she wanted to use from current enemies) made her something like a beastmaster.

The fact is that PUP's never existed in previous FFs because it wouldn't have made any sense in previous FFs. No pet-based job would, really. "Beastmaster" existed in FFV, but it was a joke.

The first time I saw screens of the PUP, btw, I thought I was staring at a Necromancer. The early PUP screens looked like the soul of some dead creature (like a "Heartless" from KH, but with a hat). I thought "oh great another pet job that no one wants." I'm still thinking that, even though I have been impressed by what some high-end PUPs are doing out there.

Job updates we need? BST needs to be useful in sea. NEEDS to. Motherf*ckin NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS to. If a brutha could just charm a mob or two to take up against some jailers, BSTs would be some happy mofos.

Also, as many have said, I think SMN needs a little love since things are becoming so fast-paced and speed-focused, and SMNs are anything but.

[Chupunpupun]

Relm.

Relm is not at all, in any way, like a puppetmaster. The "Painter" job (plus the relic that allowed her the ability to pick what skills she wanted to use from current enemies) made her something like a beastmaster.

The fact is that PUP's never existed in previous FFs because it wouldn't have made any sense in previous FFs. No pet-based job would, really. "Beastmaster" existed in FFV, but it was a joke.

The first time I saw screens of the PUP, btw, I thought I was staring at a Necromancer. The early PUP screens looked like the soul of some dead creature (like a "Heartless" from KH, but with a hat). I thought "oh great another pet job that no one wants." I'm still thinking that, even though I have been impressed by what some high-end PUPs are doing out there.

Job updates we need? BST needs to be useful in sea. NEEDS to. Motherf*ckin NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS to. If a brutha could just charm a mob or two to take up against some jailers, BSTs would be some happy mofos.

Also, as many have said, I think SMN needs a little love since things are becoming so fast-paced and speed-focused, and SMNs are anything but.

My prediction is we'll get a jug pet buff next update but the buff will be so miniscule that your pet will still die before the recast of call beast is ready again rendering BST useless yet again.

[Damane]

I want RegenII/III for RDM more than Refresh II.

then I command convert for my whm and blm.

honestly RDM has allready almost everything covered seen from the point of a whm... the mage jobs that need most fixing are whm and smn in my opinion, since the difference between a whm and rdm is so marginal, 4 different spells, and some more +% healing potency for a whm (not considering merits now with shell V).

the only thing whm exceeds over rdm is hatefree and efficient cureing (cure V, regen II, regen III duh), magic defense mastery (shellra V and barspells for 120, with merits and appropriate gear) and one spell called stona (and higher MP resting rate, but this argument is nullified because of rdm convert rofls).

[Geostigma]

I want RegenII/III for RDM more than Refresh II.

then I command convert for my whm and blm.

honestly RDM has allready almost everything covered seen from the point of a whm... the mage jobs that need most fixing are whm and smn in my opinion, since the difference between a whm and rdm is so marginal, 4 different spells, and some more +% healing potency for a whm (not considering merits now with shell V).

the only thing whm exceeds over rdm is hatefree and efficient cureing (cure V, regen II, regen III duh), magic defense mastery (shellra V and barspells for 120, with merits and appropriate gear) and one spell called stona (and higher MP resting rate, but this argument is nullified because of rdm convert rofls).

On that note... would lmao if for some reason SE goes and announces there raising the level cap to 80 or something stupid and game breaking for the upcoming expansion... but then again I look at Puppetmaster and realize anything is possible.

[Max™]

*whacks the last poster on the nose with a rolled up newspaper*

No!

Don't bring that up.

Also: as a Monk, I recognize that the job is stupid powerful, we consistently maintain the ability to solo Em mobs straight up, and with Ni can take out VT's. Still, I would like Guard Mastery or something, been skilling it just for the sake of doing it, and man, it would be really nice if it, like Parry/Shield, prevented Interrupts, or at least reduced them some.

Getting hit for 3 Damage and still getting an Interrupt is kind of lame.

[deivi]

I want RegenII/III for RDM more than Refresh II.

the mage jobs that need most fixing are whm and smn in my opinion, since the difference between a whm and rdm is so marginal, 4 different spells, and some more +% healing potency for a whm (not considering merits now with shell V).

Divine Veil needs to be a seperate /ja, or maybe a high lv cure potency+ trait because WHM has always been overpowered as a sub, and can we please get our bar-status spells buffed a bit..

[Kaslo]

Relm.

Relm is not at all, in any way, like a puppetmaster. The "Painter" job (plus the relic that allowed her the ability to pick what skills she wanted to use from current enemies) made her something like a beastmaster.

The fact is that PUP's never existed in previous FFs because it wouldn't have made any sense in previous FFs. No pet-based job would, really. "Beastmaster" existed in FFV, but it was a joke.

The first time I saw screens of the PUP, btw, I thought I was staring at a Necromancer. The early PUP screens looked like the soul of some dead creature (like a "Heartless" from KH, but with a hat). I thought "oh great another pet job that no one wants." I'm still thinking that, even though I have been impressed by what some high-end PUPs are doing out there.

Job updates we need? BST needs to be useful in sea. NEEDS to. Motherf*ckin NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS to. If a brutha could just charm a mob or two to take up against some jailers, BSTs would be some happy mofos.

Also, as many have said, I think SMN needs a little love since things are becoming so fast-paced and speed-focused, and SMNs are anything but.

My prediction is we'll get a jug pet buff next update but the buff will be so miniscule that your pet will still die before the recast of call beast is ready again rendering BST useless yet again.

Watch SE add new jug pets that drop of AV for Goldfish, Squids, and Ghrahs >.>

[Therin]

Also, as many have said, I think SMN needs a little love since things are becoming so fast-paced and speed-focused, and SMNs are anything but.

Because 600-1000 TP-less damage every 45 seconds (more damage over time and damage per TP than any other job minus BLM) and the ability to support a party of melee at the same time isn't already broken!

[Amele]

level 80cap

*whacks the last poster on the nose with a rolled up newspaper*

No!

Don't bring that up.

someone remind me how going from 75 to 80 is particularly more broken than 70 to 75, from a strictly player power point of view? (this presupposes SE would make necessary adjustments to the hnm that SE intends to stay relevant.)

do people really fear subbed convert (possibly even a nerfed form, like 50%) and warp II on every rdm/blm that much more than utsusemi:ni on every melee? (edit: disclaimer, I don't believe SE is really gonna do it. just that I don't think the barrier to doing it is nearly as bad as everyone seems to think it is.)

[Not Kuno]

do people really fear subbed convert (possibly even a nerfed form, like 50%) and warp II on every rdm/blm that much more than utsusemi:ni on every melee? (edit: disclaimer, I don't believe SE is really gonna do it. just that I don't think the barrier to doing it is nearly as bad as everyone seems to think it is.)

I dont think anyone tanked with utsusemi back then, so they didn't even consider it.

[Fiofio]

the only thing whm exceeds over rdm is hatefree and efficient cureing (cure V, regen II, regen III duh), magic defense mastery (shellra V and barspells for 120, with merits and appropriate gear) and one spell called stona (and higher MP resting rate, but this argument is nullified because of rdm convert rofls).

Are you somehow trying to say that those advantages are not huge, or something? >.>

Those advantages are exactly why our LS always use WHMs for main heals in the tank party, up to 2 of them in the tank party. RDM absolutely cannot compete with WHM when it comes to curing in a tank party of the alliance. I try to avoid using Cure IV unless I need to, the big hate spike isn't very nice, but WHMs can just toss out Cure Vs to heal for absurd amounts and take very little hate in return. They can have Regen II or III assisting them, their Shellra V and enhanced magic defense barspells cut down a ton of damage, they have divine veil, devotion to restore MP to the tanks, benediction is instant, cures for a huge amount and removes status ailments.... am I missing anything else?

Maybe its better if you look at it from the other point of view. RDMs have MP endurance because of refresh and Convert. But all the MP in the world is useless if you can't main heal the tank party for long periods of time and stay as low as possible on the monster's hate list. RDMs also have other stuff to do, like enfeebles (Slow II is super on Tiamat, for example), haste, refresh, dispel, Dia II, maybe secondary duties like stunning (with /DRK)... we're not concerned much with main healing the tanks, to be honest :D

If you're talking about merit parties... then are you saying that you want WHMs to have the top main healing slot in HNM fights, and also compete with RDMs when it comes to MP endurance? Hmm.

[Tomino]

Because 600-1000 TP-less damage every 45 seconds (more damage over time and damage per TP than any other job minus BLM)

sorry but i grew quite tired of academic arguments like "but hey it's TP free! hate free!". i'd prefer to have to care about hate and do damages of some relevance; more, who needs TP free in a burn party, nyzul or any other event where mobs are slain one after the other?
as already stated, SMN isn't fun now because it simply can't come up with the action. you mentioned "every 45 sec" but I should add "taking 10 seconds to do so" which is the main point here.

[Toth]

Because 600-1000 TP-less damage every 45 seconds (more damage over time and damage per TP than any other job minus BLM)

sorry but i grew quite tired of academic arguments like "but hey it's TP free! hate free!". i'd prefer to have to care about hate and do damages of some relevance; more, who needs TP free in a burn party, nyzul or any other event where mobs are slain one after the other?
as already stated, SMN isn't fun now because it simply can't come up with the action. you mentioned "every 45 sec" but I should add "taking 10 seconds to do so" which is the main point here.

Sadly, BLU is beginning to eclipse SMN in this regard. Cannonball doesn't give a ton of TP for its often insane damage and with good tanks and SA, hate can easily be maintained. SMN is still (and will always be) one of the best HNM jobs because it is hateless damage but a few changes would be welcome. No more 'X MOB IS TOO FAR AWAY AND YOU LOST BOTH YOUR MP AND YOUR BP TIMER LAWL' messages please...

[Baha]

People with SMN levelled usually only have to bring it to wyrms, cerb, khim and maybe one or two to DA for damage and stoneskinning melee's for wing. Clearly not the bulk of FFXI content, and in anything else, there's usually a bunch of better choices, jobwise. I agree SMN is up for a little buff, to work better in fastpaced events.

[Toth]

People with SMN levelled usually only have to bring it to wyrms, cerb, khim and maybe one or two to DA for damage and stoneskinning melee's for wing. Clearly not the bulk of FFXI content, and in anything else, there's usually a bunch of better choices, jobwise. I agree SMN is up for a little buff, to work better in fastpaced events.

Bingo! Couldn't have said it better myself. Also, the job has been stale for so long without a new avatar. Yes, they split the BP timers but would it kill them to give us a ToA avatar >.>

[aurik]

I can't believe you're bitching about SMN, which has probably gotten the most toys since RoZ release, about being 'stale'.

[Therin]

Because 600-1000 TP-less damage every 45 seconds (more damage over time and damage per TP than any other job minus BLM)

sorry but i grew quite tired of academic arguments like "but hey it's TP free! hate free!". i'd prefer to have to care about hate and do damages of some relevance; more, who needs TP free in a burn party, nyzul or any other event where mobs are slain one after the other?
as already stated, SMN isn't fun now because it simply can't come up with the action. you mentioned "every 45 sec" but I should add "taking 10 seconds to do so" which is the main point here.

What? Damage of some relevance? >_> Name another job that can do 600+ damage per minute without shooting themselves in the ass for doing so - BLU probably comes the closest, as Toth said, but they're limited by their Chain Affinity timer and I rarely see a SATA Cannonball go over 1k unless they're getting Minne songs (which takes up an extra party slot - a SMN doesn't need a BRD!), so SMN is still better in terms of efficiency.

I'll give it to you that SAM can do more damage than a SMN, sure, and if it were 1 versus 1 I'd take SAM first on most HNMs - but in terms of long, controlled fights I'd rather have 5 SMNs than 5 SAMs. Hour-long Tiamats that don't TP are much less headache than hour-long ones where tanks have to worry about getting two-shotted by a Double Attack because the SAMs are meleeing during Mighty Strikes and getting everyone's shadows taken off by Tebbad Wing.