Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Tomino]

OHAY I SHORTENED YOUR CASTING TIMES

...it shortens the time an elemental will cast its random spells.
unless you were ironic, lol

[FinalJustice]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/...%27s_spats.png

OHAY I SHORTENED YOUR CASTING TIMES

Isn't that for the spirits?

I think the only thing that shortens actual casting time is:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/...byBCDrops2.jpg

By like 1 sec :-\ good for solo I guess.

[Admo]

The one time I saw someone BRD/RDM in my merit party I booted them. That's the worst SJ out of the "Useful" SJs bard uses >_>...

Yah, because they have all of, what, 3 (?) useful sub jobs. What's so wrong with /RDM in merit parties?

lack of curaga, lack of -na spells, lack of damage mitigation (reliable damage mitigation, fuck stoneskin and blink).

/RDM blows for anything not BLM and solo, really -.-;

Also I'm really suprised no one here mentioned these

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/...%27s_spats.png

OHAY I SHORTENED YOUR CASTING TIMES

Curaga, yes, you'll be missing that, but in meripos, you don't really need -na spells all the time because the RDM should have /WHM. Reliable damage mitigation? Are you talking about Protect? Tell your melees to sub NIN, it removes the need to have a single tank thus removing the xp/hr. Oh, and PS, RDM has higher enhancing skill (higher damage mitigation on stoneskin).

Why are you showing me SMN spats? Aren't we talking about BRD subbing /RDM?

[Reapz]

I was scared to quote incase it was a woosh, but they seriously need to fix the description on those pants

[Naygor]

Sometimes it takes me more than 5 seconds to cast a nuke on blm and it takes me 8 (yes the unumber before 9 and after 7) seconds to cast a song on brd when I'm expected to have 4 songs on at once?! Buffs plz.

Out of all the things I said, you point out the 5 seconds. Does it take you 8 seconds to put on your instrument and another 8 seconds to play a song AND have to wait another 50-60 (depending on timer-) to play another? Same thing with BLMs with nuking...

Your logic is flawed.

Seeing as I'm probably going to cast more than 1 nuke and more than 1 song in the span of a minute, it seems pretty on par with how long it takes you and your avatar.

[Winged]

The one time I saw someone BRD/RDM in my merit party I booted them. That's the worst SJ out of the "Useful" SJs bard uses >_>...

Yah, because they have all of, what, 3 (?) useful sub jobs. What's so wrong with /RDM in merit parties?

lack of curaga, lack of -na spells, lack of damage mitigation (reliable damage mitigation, fuck stoneskin and blink).

/RDM blows for anything not BLM and solo, really -.-;

Also I'm really suprised no one here mentioned these

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/...%27s_spats.png

OHAY I SHORTENED YOUR CASTING TIMES

That's only for Spirits, not Avatars like Shiva etc...



WOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHH!

[Jeryhn]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/...%27s_spats.png

OHAY I SHORTENED YOUR CASTING TIMES

You're fucking retarded.

[Carnusty]

Curaga, yes, you'll be missing that, but in meripos, you don't really need -na spells all the time because the RDM should have /WHM. Reliable damage mitigation? Are you talking about Protect? Tell your melees to sub NIN, it removes the need to have a single tank thus removing the xp/hr. Oh, and PS, RDM has higher enhancing skill (higher damage mitigation on stoneskin).

Why are you showing me SMN spats? Aren't we talking about BRD subbing /RDM?

Reliable damage mitigation when pulling, I meant. /NIN for that, if you're main pulling. BRDs get more mitigation from stoneskin stacking MND opposed to the few points more they'd get /RDM opposed to /WHM.

I showed the spats because 90% of the people on this forum bitching for SMN buffs in the update were bitching about casting timers on avatars. And since I know little about SMN, shows what I know about the pants, lol.

And why the fuck would spirits need shorter casting time...

[Sasarai]

The reason they stay as a healing job(or at least, can't reach the potential of a full-on support) is because none of these changes have not been enough. That's the entire point on why they should get more.

You missed the point.

Do you honestly believe if changes were made to alter SMN mechanics, parties during the grind won't see a SMN and invite him/her to be a main healer?

Point is, finding a WHM is fucking hard for parties, no matter how good SMN may become, it won't suddenly STOP being good at main healing which in the end is MORE USEFUL.

[Carnusty]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/...%27s_spats.png

OHAY I SHORTENED YOUR CASTING TIMES

You're fucking retarded.

Retarded because I looked on Wikipedia for gear...? Or retarded because I didn't level SMN to 75, get this drop from Dynamis-Windurst, and Wikipedia didn't have the fine print that this didn't affect -avatars- and not specifically -spirits-?

[Admo]

Sometimes it takes me more than 5 seconds to cast a nuke on blm and it takes me 8 (yes the unumber before 9 and after 7) seconds to cast a song on brd when I'm expected to have 4 songs on at once?! Buffs plz.

Out of all the things I said, you point out the 5 seconds. Does it take you 8 seconds to put on your instrument and another 8 seconds to play a song AND have to wait another 50-60 (depending on timer-) to play another? Same thing with BLMs with nuking...

Your logic is flawed.

Seeing as I'm probably going to cast more than 1 nuke and more than 1 song in the span of a minute, it seems pretty on par with how long it takes you and your avatar.

OK, for one, I'm not a SMN, and two, reread what I posted and you posted. SMNs can only cast one buff a minute. A BRD can play 6-7 buffs. How is that "on par"?

[Reapz]

And why the fuck would spirits need shorter casting time...

They shorten the duration of time it takes for a spirit to cast a spell, which is nice but the description is nowhere near accurate to what they actually do

[BRP]

The reason they stay as a healing job(or at least, can't reach the potential of a full-on support) is because none of these changes have not been enough. That's the entire point on why they should get more.

You missed the point.

Do you honestly believe if changes were made to alter SMN mechanics, parties during the grind won't see a SMN and invite him/her to be a main healer?

Point is, finding a WHM is fucking hard for parties, no matter how good SMN may become, it won't suddenly STOP being good at main healing which in the end is MORE USEFUL.

If SMN can take a BRD or COR or RDM's spot between the levels of 41-42 to 70 then the change has done it's job. Main healing SMN would still be an option, but now support DD would also be an acceptable option. What a SMN could do in a party would be decided on the backline. In any case, they would be better healers, as they will have transformed into healer/support, like those lovely RDM and BRD/WHM.

[Carnusty]

And why the fuck would spirits need shorter casting time...

They shorten the duration of time it takes for a spirit to cast a spell, which is nice but the description is nowhere near accurate to what they actually do

Ok, thanks for clearing that up, it makes sense now. Since it wasn't placed on the wikipedia or anything I had no clue what it meant, aside from player-casting.

Also thanks for being civil instead of calling me retarded for something that wasn't even documented :D

Someone with a wiki account edit this

[Naygor]

Sometimes it takes me more than 5 seconds to cast a nuke on blm and it takes me 8 (yes the unumber before 9 and after 7) seconds to cast a song on brd when I'm expected to have 4 songs on at once?! Buffs plz.

Out of all the things I said, you point out the 5 seconds. Does it take you 8 seconds to put on your instrument and another 8 seconds to play a song AND have to wait another 50-60 (depending on timer-) to play another? Same thing with BLMs with nuking...

Your logic is flawed.

Seeing as I'm probably going to cast more than 1 nuke and more than 1 song in the span of a minute, it seems pretty on par with how long it takes you and your avatar.

OK, for one, I'm not a SMN, and two, reread what I posted and you posted. SMNs can only cast one buff a minute. A BRD can play 6-7 buffs. How is that "on par"?

The cool thing about that is that I probably don't want any of the smn's buffs.

[Sasarai]

The reason they stay as a healing job(or at least, can't reach the potential of a full-on support) is because none of these changes have not been enough. That's the entire point on why they should get more.

You missed the point.

Do you honestly believe if changes were made to alter SMN mechanics, parties during the grind won't see a SMN and invite him/her to be a main healer?

Point is, finding a WHM is fucking hard for parties, no matter how good SMN may become, it won't suddenly STOP being good at main healing which in the end is MORE USEFUL.

If SMN can take a BRD or COR or RDM's spot between the levels of 41-42 to 70 then the change has done it's job. Main healing SMN would still be an option, but now support DD would also be an acceptable option. What a SMN could do in a party would be decided on the backline. In any case, they would be better healers, as they will have transformed into healer/support, like those lovely RDM and BRD/WHM.

Ok fine, that would be a good change.

Problem is, the SMN here are complaining about their DD capabilities, not their support.

[Admo]

Curaga, yes, you'll be missing that, but in meripos, you don't really need -na spells all the time because the RDM should have /WHM. Reliable damage mitigation? Are you talking about Protect? Tell your melees to sub NIN, it removes the need to have a single tank thus removing the xp/hr. Oh, and PS, RDM has higher enhancing skill (higher damage mitigation on stoneskin).

Why are you showing me SMN spats? Aren't we talking about BRD subbing /RDM?

Reliable damage mitigation when pulling, I meant. /NIN for that, if you're main pulling. BRDs get more mitigation from stoneskin stacking MND opposed to the few points more they'd get /RDM opposed to /WHM.

So now we are comparing /RDM to /NIN? Yes, hands down, /NIN is the best for pulling in meripos, but /RDM isn't so terrible in comparison to a /WHM.

[Carnusty]

So now we are comparing /RDM to /NIN? Yes, hands down, /NIN is the best for pulling in meripos, but /RDM isn't so terrible in comparison to a /WHM.

I was comparing /RDM to both /WHM and /NIN in my original statement. /RDM offers the least out of the choices BRD has between them all, thus it's useless and gimp, in my opinion.

"Terrible" or not, it's still a bad choice.

[Jeryhn]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/...%27s_spats.png

OHAY I SHORTENED YOUR CASTING TIMES

You're fucking retarded.

Retarded because I looked on Wikipedia for gear...? Or retarded because I didn't level SMN to 75, get this drop from Dynamis-Windurst, and Wikipedia didn't have the fine print that this didn't affect -avatars- and not specifically -spirits-?

Because you tried being an ass trying to make a point, and it blew up in your face because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Yes, I'd say that's pretty retarded.

Spirits cast their magic on a timer based on summoning skill in relation to the skill cap, and the Summoner's Spats reduce the wait time by a fixed amount. Here's a guide on Spirit Info:
http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=149159

Make sure you have a clue next time.

[BRP]

The reason they stay as a healing job(or at least, can't reach the potential of a full-on support) is because none of these changes have not been enough. That's the entire point on why they should get more.

You missed the point.

Do you honestly believe if changes were made to alter SMN mechanics, parties during the grind won't see a SMN and invite him/her to be a main healer?

Point is, finding a WHM is fucking hard for parties, no matter how good SMN may become, it won't suddenly STOP being good at main healing which in the end is MORE USEFUL.

If SMN can take a BRD or COR or RDM's spot between the levels of 41-42 to 70 then the change has done it's job. Main healing SMN would still be an option, but now support DD would also be an acceptable option. What a SMN could do in a party would be decided on the backline. In any case, they would be better healers, as they will have transformed into healer/support, like those lovely RDM and BRD/WHM.

Ok fine, that would be a good change.

Problem is, the SMN here are complaining about their DD capabilities, not their support.

This whole debate has been huge with multiple people on both sides with all a bit different opinions outside the basic "SMN should get more buffs / SMN shouldn't get more buffs".

I don't think SMN needs that much at all offensively, aside from better endurance(which really is more general if it was something like a JA that recovers MP, something BLM and WHM also need in some way or form) and perhaps SC+MB being boosted(which isn't job specific).