Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Jordache]

I dunno how WHM sj alone "introduces" the role of healer when you have shit like Light Spirit and Healing Ruby inherent to the fucking job. Healing isn't the inherent focus of SMN, but the capability is there. Paladins have to suck it up and play mediocre DD for merits/assault generally, SMNs need to just suck it up and play healer for that kind of thing. Really, what do you want? A Rykoshet Avatar so you can do sweet damage in merits and be able to leave your avatar out?

The LightSpirit is only slightly less retarded then you are for suggesting that a SMN should use them for healing purposes. Healing Ruby I/II is the shit but its crippled to all hell by the 50 seconds it takes to recast it. And we can already do "sweet damage in merits and be able to leave our avatar out" we don't need a Rykoshet pet to do that. We just want to do it more and help support the party without heamorraging MP leaving our pets out or being a 37WHM with 1300 mp.

[Naygor]

They should just delete smn so people would shut up.

[Beckwin]

I dunno how WHM sj alone "introduces" the role of healer when you have shit like Light Spirit and Healing Ruby inherent to the fucking job. Healing isn't the inherent focus of SMN, but the capability is there. Paladins have to suck it up and play mediocre DD for merits/assault generally, SMNs need to just suck it up and play healer for that kind of thing. Really, what do you want? A Rykoshet Avatar so you can do sweet damage in merits and be able to leave your avatar out?

The LightSpirit is only slightly less retarded then you are for suggesting that a SMN should use them for healing purposes. Healing Ruby I/II is the shit but its crippled to all hell by the 50 seconds it takes to recast it. And we can already do "sweet damage in merits and be able to leave our avatar out" we don't need a Rykoshet pet to do that. We just want to do it more and help support the party without heamorraging MP leaving our pets out or being a 37WHM with 1300 mp.

I'm glad you understood my point about healing ruby and light spirit- oh wait, you didn't. Someone tried to argue that the only thing that introduced healing to SMN was the WHM sj, which is simply not true- SMN has the capability to restore hp without it (it's just not really convenient, but it's still a native part of the job).

And now you want to be able to do sweet damage and be awesome at supporting the party and awesome at healing the party and have all the mp you could need to do all that simultaneously?

Fuck, lets add what someone mentioned earlier about avatars tanking and just delete the rest of the jobs from the game.

[FinalJustice]

People would have shut up 8 pages ago if people didn't always try to rain on their parade with retarded BS.

Fuck, lets add what someone mentioned earlier about avatars tanking and just delete the rest of the jobs from the game.

Stop arguing about shit the majority of actual smns don't want. Why the hell would I want to be a Tank?

[Beckwin]

I was hyperbolizing, but basically I'm hearing that SMNs want to be awesome at damage, support, and healing, and want enough MP to do it all. It's ridiculous.

[FinalJustice]

No, your argument is ridiculous because Smns aren't asking for ALL that. No one is asking to Out DD Melee, so how would they be AWSOME DD? Last time i checked Ifrit can't equip a Ridil, and Titan Can't equip a Black belt. Smns can't out cure a whm or a rdm, and no one cares about that either. However they want their support BPs boosted, and insanely weak attacks and acc fixed. Hardly ridiculous.

[layoneil]

Someone tried to argue that the only thing that introduced healing to SMN was the WHM sj, which is simply not true- SMN has the capability to restore hp without it (it's just not really convenient, but it's still a native part of the job).

main healing, you're being unnecessarily retarded, similar to the whole people invite NINs to tank, no one invites NINs to tank and not DD. most people don't care if SMNs BP at all if they main heal.

And now you want to be able to do sweet damage and be awesome at supporting the party and awesome at healing the party and have all the mp you could need to do all that simultaneously?

people are throwing out random ideas, you can't implement all of them, just like you can't implement every idea about Kings all at the same time (instanced, pop itemed, 100% drop, shorter windows, etc).

SMN doesn't need all of those, the first part is fine, the 2nd and 3rd part sucks. and you definitely don't need to do all of that at that simultaneously.

I was hyperbolizing, but basically I'm hearing that SMNs want to be awesome at damage, support, and healing, and want enough MP to do it all. It's ridiculous.

if you add every hypothetical solution together than that's what it'll be, but no sane person suggested doing all of those things. it's only ridiculous because of your inability to process the information.

[evilpaul]

They're not unreasonable, but SMN is one of the most frequently updated jobs, while there are jobs who are never updated, and jobs that don't even have the endgame usefulness SMN has to go with their EXP party mediocrity.

hmm im not sure about one of the most frequent. Besides like a new avatar every other year, what other updates have other jobs not gotten either at about the same time?

Ward/Rage update, SC/MB update, Summoning skill update, Mini forks, lengthening of Astral Flow, and an improvement to your tier 2 merits; something I don't think any other jobs have gotten.

And "besides new avatars" is a shitty cop out, each avatar gives SMN more new shit than many jobs have seen since SMN was released.

The group 2 BPs were complete garbage as released. (Every job got group 2s, btw...people seem to have forgotten this.)

Does sets of equipment that are the new best of the best for jobs only count as an "update" when it's a level 71 Robe off a Weapon NM equippable by Summoner? Do I really need to look up what the best (for various situations) gearsets are for all the "we got nothing since RoZ" jobs? I don't see many people TPing in O.hats anymore for one thing.

They should just delete smn so people would shut up.

Aren't there other threads requiring your attention to crap upon them? I haven't seen you add anything or address anyone's points in 10+ pages.

I'm glad you understood my point about healing ruby and light spirit- oh wait, you didn't. Someone tried to argue that the only thing that introduced healing to SMN was the WHM sj, which is simply not true- SMN has the capability to restore hp without it (it's just not really convenient, but it's still a native part of the job).

And now you want to be able to do sweet damage and be awesome at supporting the party and awesome at healing the party and have all the mp you could need to do all that simultaneously?

Healing BPs are great. If you happen to have an avatar out who can use one when you suddenly need a Curaga 2.5 after everyone gets railed for ~400 damage.

But, you can't /heal with a free Carby out. And Leviathan doesn't have any buffs useful in a rotation although his DD ones aren't bad, but you don't get to use those much in a party without running out of MP. I mostly use Spring Water to cure Petrify on non-tanks. So it takes waaaay too long to use them in any time critical situation where people are going to be eating dirt in less than 15 seconds.

LightSpirit doesn't Cure on demand and will cast Haste on the BLM while several party members are in red HP.

Having a mindless shiny that can cast a Cure spell sometimes, maybe if all the stars align, and three avatars who have curing BPs but are impractical to use in any face-paced situtation, and only once per minute, hardly makes SMN a healer class like a WHM.

I haven't seen any SMNs say they want to be awesome healers, and BLU, BLM, PLD, etc can all do that just as well basically.

The only boosts to damage (aka "awesome damage") I've seen people mention where avatar magic which pre-75 is pretty awful, and maybe a bump to the lower level physical BPs. Nobody uses Tail Slap or Double Punch on Tiamat; this won't affect SMN in "endgame."

The stuff everyone has been asking for are useful Blood Pact: Wards. Because most of them are completely worthless. (Which isn't like a Resist Poison song BRD gets, BRD has more useful songs than they can even use in most situations.)

Perhaps you can tell us which support BPs you think are great? Hastega? That's been useable only since the Summoning Magic skill patch, and only if you have skill+ enough to make it last 2+ minutes. This is where everyone's been asking for a boost, so that a SMN/WHM isn't just any MP-user with /WHM 90% of the time.

[Ryko]

Do I really need to look up what the best (for various situations) gearsets are for all the "we got nothing since RoZ" jobs? I don't see many people TPing in O.hats anymore for one thing.

Please dear god go do so so I can laugh when you go "well you got a turban and... well... turban!"

Aren't there other threads requiring your attention to crap upon them? I haven't seen you add anything or address anyone's points in 10+ pages.

Then once again you haven't been reading, which seems to be pretty common for you.

[Naygor]

Yes the whole nin vs smn for subjob thing didn't come from my suggestion. Shut up and pay attention before you claim I haven't addressed anything/contributed anything.

[BRP]

This thread in a nutshell if your not bothered to read it all

Page 1
SE: Hey everyone we are gonna try fixing 2hand weapons and adding cool new items to maybe drool over

Page 1&2
BG: Great lets hope they dont fook it up!

Around the middle somewhere
Red Mages: "Red mage would like something new, we are bored of being so awesome and need more"

Last 10 pages or so
BG: Smn is crap without /Whm sub and isnt that great with it either, except on some HNM's. Dont you DARE try meriting on it, lol

Honestly what do you expect? It's been like 5 or 6 fucking days since SE released the info and they promised to mention job changes... christ if SE doesn't have something up on this morning, I think I might just snap.

EDIT:

even though there are other jobs that are perfectly fine with the exact same thing

No other job in the entire game is in the same situation as SMN. The only thing close to it is when BLMs become main heals in some assaults like preemptive strike with 3, and when I do it, I still throw out stuns, sleeps, and the occasional nuke.

[Naygor]

Pup's in a worse situation, tbh.

[Beckwin]

SMN doesn't need all of those, the first part is fine, the 2nd and 3rd part sucks. and you definitely don't need to do all of that at that simultaneously.

So really, there's no "unfairness" about the job like people have been bitching about for 10 pages? The damage overall is great (weaker in the world of meleeburn merit parties, but very very strong and unique in the world of HNMs), the buffs are mediocre, and the healing is sub-par. I don't think jobs having strengths and weaknesses is "unfair"; I think it's called diversity.

I've heard some reasonable proposals for minor improvements, but it's the ridiculous do-it-all attitudes and crying about unfairness, primarily referring to fucking merit parties, that makes this so incredulous. Not to mention silliness about SMN being the only job that relies heavily on SJ to function and war not being a tank and so on.

[Ryko]

No other job in the entire game is in the same situation as SMN.

You know repeating it doesn't make it true.

[Toth]

Please let those update notes come tomorrow so this can end....

[Naygor]

It'd probably only get worse if smn isn't given an amazing buff.

[Not Kuno]

The damage overall is great (weaker in the world of meleeburn merit parties, but very very strong and unique in the world of HNMs)

People still use SMN on Kirin? We stopped ages ago. Same with tiamat, it seems alot of people use melee on it judging from SSes I see. Nobody uses SMN for 3 kings and I dont know what people do to Khim anymore. You act like just because you use smn everyone does and its completely the best hands down. SMN killing is pretty slow when you can just rape with melee.

[shihei]

honestly you guys sound like you are asking for your job to be good at everything which would be very nice but this game has excluded certain jobs from certain things forever, even if it is just players mentality that caused it. Only like 2-3 core support jobs get to be able to be "usefull" on everything.
And speaking from the point of view of only having one 75(thf) i don't think some jobs need anything new at all, EXCEPT THF LOL.(halp plz rivb01(ouryu mission) + thf= wut???)

[Ryko]

You act like just because you use smn everyone does and its completely the best hands down.

*buzz* wrong, once again stop trying to throw our shell into this, it's the last HNM shell you'd want to use an example.

[BRP]

Pup's in a worse situation, tbh.

Uh, yes, probably... I guess it depends on opinions.

PUP can perform the DD function decently enough, but lack spike damage and can't benefit from the PUP dmg + Auto dmg on anything IT++(let alone 15 levels above). Of course there is always the issue about gear... the difference is PUP has basically been gaining huge power boosts(omgmerits and attachments) that actually change the job. If the trend continues, and hopefully includes something more interesting for high-end end-game, PUP can probably fit right in without really being laughed at(by people who accept jobs other than WAR, BRD, MNK, BLM, etc).

You know repeating it doesn't make it true.

The comparison to WAR and NIN failed utterly. What ace are you hiding?

And to repeat another point: Boosting SMN does not prevent boosting of other jobs. Gasp!