Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Toth]

Yeah, talking about bots is a wasted discussion but.....

So PUP, BST, and SMN...any other DDs that need some adjustments lol

[FinalJustice]

BOth of you have.

nothing or have gotten far less than SMN has in the last 3 years that could stand to be thrown a bone instead of pandering to a coddled job that wants to be better in exp. Keep up here skippy.

And that's STILL a fucking weak point to sit here for 8 pages arguing against it.
Everyone fucking knows the jobs that need fixing. Instead of being a tard, you should have been spending your time talking about things that also need fixing, not sitting here comparing job for job of who gets the most presents like a jealous sibling.

[Toth]

SE is going to read all this and decide to make a new WoG job yet another pet-based support/DDer...

[Cadena]

No other job in the entire game is in the same situation as SMN. The only thing close to it is when BLMs become main heals in some assaults like preemptive strike with 3, and when I do it, I still throw out stuns, sleeps, and the occasional nuke.

No, BLM is in the exact same situation for many people...if there's a BLM in my party past level 50 or so, (s)he better do the same thing a SMN would - mainly assist in healing. Besides healing, I only want to see Stuns and the occasional nuke, just like an occasional Rage BP.

So following this logic, BLM is broken too and needs to buffed (or SC/MB some of you would say.)

[Ryko]

Instead of being a tard, you should have been spending your time talking about things that also need fixing, not sitting here comparing job for job of who gets the most presents like a jealous sibling.

The problem is if I said "it's not fair, war hasn't gotten anything in 3 years, it's boring" I'd get "Shut the fuck up you have a ridill" and that pretty much kills it. I don't care if it does get updated personally, I have enough jobs to do something new if I need to. Considering I also said it's practically guaranteed you will get something new as it's a new expansion and SE has yet to break the trend of offering you an absolutely new avatar with a whole slew of new abilities and as such your whining is honestly absolutely mind-numbing, beyond that it's been stupid shit like "WAR isnt a hybrid job" "WAR isnt a tank" "Itll take you 3 hours to kill an HNM with 7 summoners" "no other job relies on their sub as much as summoner does" "NIN can hold hate fine with just its mainjob abilities".... I'm not the one bringing up (mostly false, stupid) non-sequiturs, and every time I respond to someone directly I get "Well that's irrelevant" or "No one said that". Obviously if such were the case I wouldn't be responding to someone, would I?

[evilpaul]

SMN isn't invited to exp because of it's main job duties

Tanks: pld, nin, maybe war
DD: anything but smn will be invited for that role here
support: brd, cor, rdm will get this glory, ive seen smn invited for loldispelga before, but that's almost negligible to mention because it's rare as hell
main healing: whm, rdm, and smn/whm

wow smn get's 99% of it's invites from 1-75 exping based on the role their subjob provides, their main job brings absolutely nothing worthwhile to the table to be invited for where another job will do it much better.

invite a blm/whm and ask it to main heal, see how that goes, it would seem omgosh they get invited to actaully DD!

I actually requested to main heal on BLM if possible >.> but this was mainly to get the damn SJ done ;p but I did have some BLM main healers at higher levels.

Oh and did I notice SMN are complaining about having to be /whm onry... I guess BRDs should complain cause they are /whm or /nin onry, or PLD /war /nin onry, or WAR /nin onry, or ect. I guess you want to be allowed to /thf and SATA those sweet Staff WSs huh?

People are complaining that /WHM is basically the only reason they're invited as SMN to party. Unless I was going to level /THF and try to do some wacky SA+Spirit Taker DDing thing (I'm as inclined to do that as level /THF to 37), then I'd probably stick to /WHM regardless of whatever adjustments SE comes up with.

[Syng]

. Did you seriously come into this discussion with nothing better to do than accuse TG, probably the one shell on Fairy without some sort of connection to RMT, of botting?

Didn't Tsu get banned for POsing and then bought an account cause he was missing the game?

[Ryko]

Tsu never bought any account, he did have tens's, meowolf's, and freight's info though. When he finally started playing again on his own for a grand total of like a week he rerolled as a taru female from scratch. Keep trying though.

[Syng]

Fuck, I thought I told that last customer not in that hair! Charging him extra next time I see that asshole..

[Koyangi]

SMN isn't invited to exp because of it's main job duties

Tanks: pld, nin, maybe war
DD: anything but smn will be invited for that role here
support: brd, cor, rdm will get this glory, ive seen smn invited for loldispelga before, but that's almost negligible to mention because it's rare as hell
main healing: whm, rdm, and smn/whm

wow smn get's 99% of it's invites from 1-75 exping based on the role their subjob provides, their main job brings absolutely nothing worthwhile to the table to be invited for where another job will do it much better.

invite a blm/whm and ask it to main heal, see how that goes, it would seem omgosh they get invited to actaully DD!

I actually requested to main heal on BLM if possible >.> but this was mainly to get the damn SJ done ;p but I did have some BLM main healers at higher levels.

Oh and did I notice SMN are complaining about having to be /whm onry... I guess BRDs should complain cause they are /whm or /nin onry, or PLD /war /nin onry, or WAR /nin onry, or ect. I guess you want to be allowed to /thf and SATA those sweet Staff WSs huh?

Reading comprehension, BRD isn't invited because it fukin subs WHM, it's invited because it sings good ass songs.

[Syng]

Before this spirals further I want to point out that you're the one who brought assholes into it.

What?! Toth knew about BG before I even knew him >(

[Not Kuno]

And to all the SMNs in this thread complaining about your worthless job; if you all think it's so broken, go level something else.

This is the most retarded argument I've ever heard in my life.


As for the "blm must be broken too, comment" at least BLM does (alot of) stuff in endgame. Suck it up for 75 levels then be useful as opposed to smn.

[Fryte]

As for SMN being a coddled job, every change they've done to the job has had NO effect on fixing the job.

[BRP]

No other job in the entire game is in the same situation as SMN. The only thing close to it is when BLMs become main heals in some assaults like preemptive strike with 3, and when I do it, I still throw out stuns, sleeps, and the occasional nuke.

No, BLM is in the exact same situation for many people...if there's a BLM in my party past level 50 or so, (s)he better do the same thing a SMN would - mainly assist in healing. Besides healing, I only want to see Stuns and the occasional nuke, just like an occasional Rage BP.

So following this logic, BLM is broken too and needs to buffed (or SC/MB some of you would say.)

BLM can nuke in end-game parties, it's just not effective edurance wise(like SMN DD). And yes, SC+MB fixes are the way to go with BLM. If BLM had a trait that stripped a lot of enmity off a MBs, SCs were much more consistent in damage, and MBs costed much less than they normally would, you would see the popularity of BLM(and SMN perhaps) raise a bit, at least in parties with BLU. SCs are actually easier to incorporate into parties(especially pre-70) than some would believe, especially if SE boosts 1-2 hit WSes that lead to the best opening/closing of SCs.


I'm officially exhausted on the SMN topic now as it's just too much repetition. I'm hoping we see those job changes tomorrow morning.

Closing points:

-Boosting SMN does not prevent other jobs from being boosted.

-SMN being an support job like BRD or RDM only makes leveling eaiser.

-SMN being changed (in a support manner) really only involves changing durations and type of bonuses(Warcry -> normal), much less work it would seem. Adding a refresh BP(Ballad II!) would be the largest amount of work for SE apparently.

-Jobs shouldn't be good in one area at the cost of being terribly weak in other areas. To the response of other jobs suffer the same problem, see my first point.

-Accepting unbalance in the game just shows one is terribly out of touch with the game and direction SE wants to take it.

-Finally, if SMN wasn't broken in some way or form, then why are multiple credible people(not allahtards) mentioning it?

[Tonko]

Every job needs some boosts.

DRG, SMN, PUP, BST are the highest on this list. They NEED adjustment and balancing.

As for SMN, they claim they want us to leave avatars out, they give us tier II pacts that are ONLY good if we let our avatars get TP. But we have an insane drain on our MP for leaving it out, as well as BPs that cost as much as BLM Tier IV nukes. BPs are cancelled if there is movement by the mob, and you loose MP, AND the timer is reset. The melee damage avatars do, it's just horrible. End of discussion. Either remove or largely reduce perp cost, or make avatar melee much much better.

[Ryko]

-Accepting unbalance in the game just shows one is terribly out of touch with the game and direction SE wants to take it.

With 18 jobs in the game some are going to lose out, SE's intentions can pretty much bite a nut since it's just as common for them to cripple a job as it is for them to buff it.

Finally, if SMN wasn't broken in some way or form, then why are multiple credible people(not allahtards) mentioning it?

Because misery loves company and once the whine train gets rolling it's a lot easier to add cars to it.

[Stolin]

Every job needs some boosts.

DRG, SMN, PUP, BST are the highest on this list. They NEED adjustment and balancing.

Sadly SMN probably needs a bigger boost than DRG does.

[Toth]

God, I had a lovely flame for Zealot but I think I'll be mature for once and set an example.

Back to topic...

Let's switch to another job for the love of .....

What could MNK want this update?

[FinalJustice]

The problem is if I said "it's not fair, war hasn't gotten anything in 3 years, it's boring" I'd get "Shut the fuck up you have a ridill" and that pretty much kills it.

Too bad your feeble mind can't comprehend that its NOT FUCKING ABOUT "waah i havnt gotten anything in 3 years, gimmee something"

Its about Fixing some ISSUES with the fucking job. What part of that don't you fucking get? The reason ppl would tell you to STFU, is because WAR is one of the TOP DD in the damn game. SMN, DRG, PUP, RNG, BST ar jobs with ACTUAL fucking problems, they aren't pulling problems out of their ass. ALL of those jobs are in need of adjustment. JUST because ppl found a mediocre use for SMN in the absence of another job that does it better doesn't make it any less in need of adjustment.

Because misery loves company and once the whine train gets rolling it's a lot easier to add cars to it.

The only reason it remotely resembles a whine train is because dumb asses like you who don't even fucking play the job always have something stupid to say. This whole argument would have been avoided if you assholes weren't so hell bent on telling ppl to ignore glaring issues with a job because you're lazy ass wants to take longer to kill some HNM that 100% of the player base isn't even touching everyday. You're whole whine fest is, "waaah DRG bneeds fixing more then Smn". Who the FUCK said not to fix drg too? Who the hell said not to adjust PUP? Who the hell said to ignore bst? FIXING SMN DOES NOT PREVENT OTHER JOBS TO BE FIXED TOO.

The only reason ppl keep comparing SMN to other jobs is BECAUSE YOU dumb ass harpies won't stfu about OTHER JOBS when this particular conversation was about SMN.

NO ONE is stopping you from bringing up things to fix DRG, you're just too much argumentative prick to do that.

[Not Kuno]

The ability to fight HNMs.

We use mnk on fafnir/nid, behe, kirin (melee not chiblast) and probably some other HNM too, and most definatly for end game events like ein/salvage/dynamis.

It sounds like your problem isn't with FFXI it's with your LS. Do you want a pony with your magical mnk fix too?