Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Ryko]

He asked you at least once before and you dodged it you retard. Furthermore you didn't even finish the second part of my question, what experiences with said mobs do you have that cause you to believe summoners are less efficient on said mobs and as such will kill significantly slower?

When did Shenmue ask me that before you moron?

His name isn't shenmue, no one named shenmue asked you any question. Seeing as how you've responded to some imaginary shenmue before I'm gonna go with the closest thing to whatever person you have made up in your head.

It's not about fishing or dodging because I have no point. It's because I'm clearly being a dick to you at this point. You're just too fucking stupid to get that at this point.

I got it from the first moment, the thing is one of us has stuck to the topic at hand while the other hasn't. You being a dick to anyone won't make me lose sleep, you're the one who mentioned the point to begin with, I just kept asking a question afterwards because it was obvious you were being a bitch about it.

[Indalecia]

Shuemue just clicked the 1000th post on this thread.

Thoughts?

And for gods sake, who took my echo drops?

[Shuemue]

By quoting Ryko's question at the top of page 33 and suggesting you had evasion merits, I'd say that's a pretty implicit question. Maybe you're a tad slow?

[Ryko]

You're assuming too much shue, how could you know what shenmue was thinking when he posted that?

[Shuemue]

I speak fluent Swahili.

[FinalJustice]

why do you suggest SMN suck so badly on those 3 HNMs

Hmm, I don't recall ever saying smns sucked at HNM. I simply meant having "decent" to good dmg on a HNM ppl are afraid to melee, was not reason enough to say the other 80% of the game smn was "fine as is". And as far as taking longer or not, it depends on the hnm, and how many smns you throw at it. But who smn burns Khimy and Cerb?

[Beckwin]

why do you think a SMN's damage is enhanced by how many other SMNs are in the alliance?

[FinalJustice]

By quoting Ryko's question at the top of page 33 and suggesting you had evasion merits, I'd say that's a pretty implicit question.

Perhaps to a Taru :-\

[Indalecia]

Force multiplication, yo.

[FinalJustice]

why do you think a SMN's damage is enhanced by how many other SMNs are in the alliance?

You were talking about the speed of the fight before. Can melee break 1k dmg in one min?

[Ryko]

why do you suggest SMN suck so badly on those 3 HNMs

Hmm, I don't recall ever saying smns sucked at HNM.

I mean who would want to throw 7 smns at something and take 3hrs + to kill it? omg

Hyperbole? Yes, sarcasm? Slightly, exact opposite of what you believed? Doubtful unless you said something stupid for the sake of sounding like a retard.

And as far as taking longer or not, it depends on the hnm, and how many smns you throw at it. But who smn burns Khimy and Cerb?

We already mentioned the 3 HNMs in question. And I can name a few shells, drastically more in khim's case.

[FinalJustice]

And? Plenlty kill Cerb just as speedy, if not more.

Can melee break 1k dmg in one min?

[FinalJustice]

Hyperbole? Yes, sarcasm? Slightly, exact opposite of what you believed? Doubtful unless you said something stupid for the sake of sounding like a retard.

If you can't see that it was a stab at your previous comment then i don't know what to say to you.

[Ryko]

Yeah and dump the mob full of tp in the meanwhile.

(Watch, he's gonna say 'just because you can't handle tp moves from an HNM while meleeing it doesn't mean...)

Also that wasn't my question, what experiences do you have with said mobs that cause you to believe that summoners would kill it slower than other melees?

If you can't see that it was a stab at your previous comment then i don't know what to say to you.

I didn't say it wasn't a stab, it was just a really fucking stupid one when my comment was about the convenience of having mobs with TP triggered massive AOE's not having TP.

[FinalJustice]

Oh noooo not TP at Cerberus... quick how do I use stun?

Can melee break 700-1k dmg in one min?

I didn't say it wasn't a stab, it was just a really fucking stupid one when my comment was about the convenience of having mobs with TP triggered massive AOE's not having TP.

Sarcasm is lost on you. I guess including teh OMG at teh end wasn't good enough for you.

[Beckwin]

why do you think a SMN's damage is enhanced by how many other SMNs are in the alliance?

You were talking about the speed of the fight before. Can melee break 1k dmg in one min?

Depends on the mobs and what buffs they have, but that makes the appropriate answer "not always."

And? Plenlty kill Cerb just as speedy, if not more.

So... you're acknowledging there are more than one way of doing things?


Bottom line is that in virtually any non-tpburned/zerged HNM, you can have a smn fill the slot of just about any melee. It might not always be the best damage, but it can always put up a decent show and it can always, always do so without being a hate risk, feeding tp, or being a cure sponge.

How long do you want to keep hating your job entirely just because you don't get 25k/hr in thickets?

[FinalJustice]

Depends on the mobs and what buffs they have, but that makes the appropriate answer "not always."

Same exact thing for smn. 1k+ predator claws on HNM is not the "norm". And the melee i know don't have problems doing so. Especially the ones who break out 1k+ WS' of their own. The ONLY good point you have is "hateless" dmg. And that is STILL not enough to support your argument that smn should NOT be tweaked, which is what this is all about.

So... you're acknowledging there are more than one way of doing things?

Congrats again on making an argument I never disputed.

How long do you want to keep hating your job entirely just because you don't get 25k/hr in thickets?

I guess you really ARE stupid aren't you?? I have said time and time again I have 5, soon to be 6 lvl 75 jobs. I don't touch Smn in merit, and 25k/hr exp for me is not hard to get. And congrats again on trying to make the argument something it's not because otherwise your argument is shit.

[Jordache]

Keeping the thread alive! C'mon page 40!

sumumoners need gewd stuf b-cuz teh stuf we gewd at dun hapen alot and we wanna do kool thangs other than have our burd-ladee klaw sum dragun once evree minute.

[FinalJustice]

lol

[Fryte]

I really don't understand how "SMN is good at 3 mobs in the game" is this huge discrediting point. The problems with the job in particular isn't anything to do with getting 24k/hr. It's about getting 0k/hr because SMN brings nothing to the table that the other 17 jobs can't easily replace so no one invites them unless it's out of pure pity. DRG, BST, and PUP suffer from this same fate. Sure, they could get into a party and probably perform "ok", but you know the chances of them getting into a party? Slim to none. <---HERE lies the problem and "level NIN, MNK, WAR, RDM, or BRD" is not an acceptable answer.

It also doesn't help that half the playerbase are retards so that when those jobs do get that rare chance to party, some nitwit plays it horribly wrong and pisses off the people who took a chance on them. The hardest part of exping on SMN is the huge timesink between casting your avatar, positioning it, performing the BP, running away, and then resting again. This process takes about 20s from the time your melee just got Pecking Flurry'd to the face to the time you actually got to do something about it. If you say I should only be using Cure3 or Curaga2 and fuck Hastega, Earthen Ward, or Ecliptic Howl, well, then SMN is broken because I could change jobs to lvl37 WHM and be equally useful to your party. Personally, the way I play SMN resembles BRD before they were pullers. You buff em once a minute and throw out heals right before you rest to catch that one or two ticks before the BP timer is up. However, the 20s I use doing Hastega or Earthen Ward is usually when some melee pulls hate without shadows (or loses them very quickly) and dies. DDing on SMN in a merit party is just...lol. Don't do it. If you are, at least, -try-. Wear Haste/Accuracy/Attack gear in all the spots without -perp. Have gear swaps for Spirit Taker. BP timer down + Boosts. Fenrir onry too. Fenrir (if you leave him out) outdots all the other avatars and has lower MP cost. However, I'm pretty sure even if you pimped yourself out in this regard, you will still fail miserably. To all the people who want some sort of Refresh BP, I will shoot you in the fucking face if I have to attend a Dynamis and Refreshga for 4 hours straight. I don't want SMN to be a RDM or BRD. I want them to be a SMN. I want it to be there's a WHM, RDM, BRD, COR, and SMN lfp and there be good enough benefits from avatars that the SMN actually stands a 20% chance at getting the invite. Rolling Thunder being based off SMN skill and making it last 3minutes would be a good start I think. Enthunder procing for like 17dmg every swing in a melee burn party would add up really fast.

I also love how this huge argument developed from 5 people who I don't think even have SMN leveled. I don't have any good fixes for SMN thought up really. I like the job and the way it plays, but I hate that I have to beg and plead to play it because it's only good at 3 monsters in the game.