Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Judai]

Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

Considering my arguement had everything to do with the posts you made and the rebuttal posts of others in the topic I would have to say your use of the word Troll is incorrect here. My attack had substance and relevence to the derail that you help to cause and was in direct attack to your defense. How's them semantics for ya.


edit to above poster: a definition of Semantics?

se·man·tics /s??mænt?ks/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-man-tiks] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun (used with a singular verb) 1. Linguistics. a. the study of meaning.
b. the study of linguistic development by classifying and examining changes in meaning and form.

Basically, the meaning of words.

[FinalJustice]

It's retarded that i have to spell things out to you. Can you show what I ignored BEYOND the smn+ 3 hrs sarcastic remark, or ignored beyond him asking me If I killed Tiamat before?? Something so fucking obvious from the people who know me. This is why you are a retard. Because you choose to try and ONLY focus on things your feeble mind thinks will give you a leg up. If you can't figure out WHY ignored those 2 comments for so long, then you are a bigger idiot then I thought. It's funny that other people figured out what I was doing, and therefore got the question answered. I even dropped you fucking HINTS, gave you Tiamats HP apprx, and how much dmg those smns would need to do. Yet you were too stupid to see that too. When someone is being an asshole damn right I don't have to answer to them. The questions were irrelevant, because it all stemmed from someone who failed to recognize sarcasm. HOW would 7 smns who have to do 14.2kish dmg to Tiamat take 3 hrs. You should have KNOWN it was a loaded comment. Jesus! So yea, tell me what else I "ignored".

Edit: and since you are so dumb, I'll spell this out for you. It must be something NOT related to the smn comment, or the questioning of if I killed Tiamat before.

[Amele]

Can I get a real world definition of this semantics thing lol.

semantics (in the sense it's being [mis]used over and over in here) is the meaning of individual words, rather than the meaning of overall statements.

hope that helps!

[The Blackrose]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/languag...1791055611.gif

[FinalJustice]

lol blackrose I see what you did

[Naygor]

Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

Considering my arguement had everything to do with the posts you made and the rebuttal posts of others in the topic I would have to say your use of the word Troll is incorrect here. My attack had substance and relevence to the derail that you help to cause and was in direct attack to your defense. How's them semantics for ya.


edit to above poster: a definition of Semantics?

[quote:dfc4c]se·man·tics /s??mænt?ks/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-man-tiks] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun (used with a singular verb) 1. Linguistics. a. the study of meaning.
b. the study of linguistic development by classifying and examining changes in meaning and form.

Basically, the meaning of words.[/quote:dfc4c]


You're kidding, right? You said I disgrace my alma mater, decried my argument as nothing more than an idiotic rant and then said that said alma mater must have a poor curriculum in whatever the hell it was you said. Your attack may have had some relevance, but the fact that a large part of that post is written just to be a d-bag and to annoy is without question. Looks like trolling to me.

[FinalJustice]

Kitty is bored of you.
http://www.oddtodd.com/SLEEPY~1.jpg

[aurik]

must have a terrible curriculum

woo replacing words is fun!

[Naygor]

Are you ever gonna let that go?

[aurik]

Are you ever gonna let that go?

Probably not. Maybe next time you want to argue, you won't wholesale replace words to change the meaning of what your opponents are saying.

[Naygor]

I'm sorry. Next time I won't confuse inferior in quality with terrible in case someone decides to be annoying and just discount any and all of my arguments in the future and troll all day long. My sincerest apologies.

[aurik]

Next time I won't confuse inferior-to-average in quality with terrible

Fixed that for you. Stop playing semantics games and maybe I'll grace you with a real counter-argument. Until then, you're just a troll and deserve all the nonsequitur-image responses you are getting.

[Naygor]

Yes, it can be moderate to inferior in quality. I chose to interpret it at one end of the spectrum and the context was entirely up for grabs. I could've interpreted it as meaning moderate in quality. I didn't. Heaven forbid I not be able to figure out what context you mean in an ambiguous situation lest I open myself up to trolling because you had no argument to begin with. Mnk is easy. I wouldn't have spharai and I wouldn't have usukane, but I'd still get the job done. Do you have any real points now?

[FinalJustice]

because you had no argument to begin with

uugh

[Slott]

Just to add more to the summoner topic, Layoneil (may have spelled that wrong) covered it fairly well. He left out one major flaw in the summoner job which is lack of gear that counts. Yes, summoner gets incredible armor to give more mp, hp, hmp and whatever else mages need. Their gear however does not effect their avatars significantly.

The bonus from equipping AF2 Feet (attack up) Sacrifice Torque (Avatar attack up) af1+1 pants (acc up) af2 gloves (acc up) and other avatar stat up gear has very little effect on the avatar at all (You can barely tell the difference, but you wear it anyway hoping it will help). Merits for the pets offer very little bonus as well. Avatars lack the ability to gear change. They cannot adapt to different situations. They are what they are, and cant diversify. Every avatar is the same stat wise (Minor differences with carbuncle and fenrir), you can't feed them meat for attack up, or sushi when they need more acc. You can't swap on atk and str gear to make their pact do 300-500 more damage than normal (You might get an extra 20-50 out of it tops) So basically there's very little diversification. My summoner (which I barely ever play anymore) is top geared, however on tiamat, my performance is barely better than a summoner who just hit 75. Why? Because there's no adaman hauberk or hecatomb body that my avatar can gearswap into for extra damage.

While there is summoning magic skill, this does not translate directly to my avatar. My avatar can't hit 372 elemental magic skill and land a nuke, or an astral flow. It will get resisted more often than not, regardless of my summoning skill. It can't wear magic attack bonus gear, it gets a little bonus from merits. And I can only do one nuke a minute. My option? Diabolos. Is my diabolos any different than anyone elses? Aside from magic attack bonus merits? No.

When I play my thief, i gear swap all the time, if I don't, my damage suffers greatly. My gear has a significant effect on what I'm doing. I can evasion tank, haste build, acc build, and ws build. My summoner can healing mp build - and this does not effect my avatar. This isn't to say i'd perform the same geared as I would naked. I would run out of MP too fast, draw hate from curing, or not get mp back as quickly. However, it would be nice to have armor that would significantly effect my avatar - or more armor that effected my avatar.

Even a beastmaster, dragoon, or puppetmaster (I guess if you include the automaton parts they get) benefit more greatly than a summoner when it comes to gear. Beastmasters cant buff their pets, however they can increase their melee capabilities. This isn't to say summoners have it worse than any of those jobs, I believe bst is in a much worse position currently, as are the other two. This however doesn't take away from where summoner lacks.

I hope that clarifies some points for melees that have not played a summoner. Since I play both, it's easier to look at it that way.

[Beckwin]

Mediocre connotes negatively, whereas decent has a more positive connotation. If you call someone mediocre, you aren't putting it out there as a compliment in standard usage. "He's a decent player" vs. "He's a mediocre player"- get real. Either way, Naygor seems to have admitted to the discrepancy on his part, so if you're gonna keep hounding him about it, you're just trolling. Are you sure there isn't any new info being presented with less than stellar grammar that you could be bitching about right now?

[FinalJustice]

me·di·o·cre /?midi?o?k?r/ Pronunciation Key [mee-dee-oh-ker]
–adjective
1.of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.
2.Moderate to inferior in quality; ordinary.
3.poor to middling in quality
4.not very good or great; ordinary
5.moderate to inferior in quality

Edit: added 4 more for Naygor.

[Naygor]

I heard some words have more than one definition.

[evilpaul]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4961/boxtrapoy2.jpg

[Beckwin]

FJ, do you know what a connotation is?