Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[aurik]

It's not semantics. Do you know what a connotation of a word is?

I dare you to find somewhere that I was claiming "mediocre" to not have a negative connotation. People who simply read a guide but employ no brain power aren't exactly deserving of praise. That still doesn't make it equivalent to terrible, whose connotation is very distinctly worse than mediocre.

Mediocre is on the terrible side of objective average as far as connotations go, but Naygor admitted to the discrepancy anyway. If you wanna keep riding his nuts for it, don't expect any reach-arounds.

It would have been far less painful if Naygor didn't dick around for 3 pages claiming terrible and mediocre mean the same thing. I just lent him the shovel; he dug the hole himself.

That being said, he probably has a pretty good idea of how to gear and play mnk as is and would naturally pick up the more minute details if he ever actually leveled it.

My point exactly is that you did not use present tense. Maybe he would be a good monk if he ever levelled it, but right now he's definitely not qualified.

[Ryko]

Naygor, you posted on 'Zam about how RDMs in your PT run out of MP before convert and needed to rest just casting haste/refresh/cure/dia.

I've PT'd w/ Aurik, and his relic, ON my RDM, and he's not an MP sponge like you apparently are. Please, quit w/ the 'relic/usukane doesn't make you better than me' bullshit.

Relic/usukane does not make a monk a more competent player than the next (but it should raise said player's damage output). Aurik was a competent monk before he had either of those, and he sure as hell was deemed as highly amongst the peers on the monk forum before he had any of those or haidate. The rest of the nuthanging jockeys who would blindly cling to his calculator know nothing of that, sit down.

[LD]

More proof. This topic was unlocked just because someone couldn't stand to leave it where it was. Jesus Christ, man.

[Ryko]

It was unlocked because it's the only severely active topic on this place because the last announced update sucked donkey dick.

[Beckwin]

It's not semantics. Do you know what a connotation of a word is?

I dare you to find somewhere that I was claiming "mediocre" to not have a negative connotation. People who simply read a guide but employ no brain power aren't exactly deserving of praise. That still doesn't make it equivalent to terrible, whose connotation is very distinctly worse than mediocre.

Mediocre is on the terrible side of objective average as far as connotations go, but Naygor admitted to the discrepancy anyway. If you wanna keep riding his nuts for it, don't expect any reach-arounds.

It would have been far less painful if Naygor didn't dick around for 3 pages claiming terrible and mediocre mean the same thing. I just lent him the shovel; he dug the hole himself.

That being said, he probably has a pretty good idea of how to gear and play mnk as is and would naturally pick up the more minute details if he ever actually leveled it.

My point exactly is that you did not use present tense. Maybe he would be a good monk if he ever levelled it, but right now he's definitely not qualified.

Right, but you don't really need to be well-versed in the minute details of a job to understand it's role and potential roles, or to understand what it "needs." I have neither mnk nor war at 75, but I can tell you for damn sure that neither job is in need of significant buffing. I don't have SMN at 75 and I can tell it needs minor tweaking at best, and my PUP and BST are sitting at level 1 but I can tell you that those jobs need a bit of work.

[Naygor]

Well hey, at least I got a lot of nice pictures of kitties and people thinking it's cool to troll, but only when they do it.

[LD]

It was unlocked because it's the only severely active topic on this place because the last announced update sucked donkey dick.

That's not the fucking point, do you really think it should continue? It stopped being new at page 20 and I started it on page 14. Yea, it's fun watching the SMNs try to justify wanting something they don't really need, but 27 pages of this shit? It's longer than the original topic.

[ashke]

Naygor, you posted on 'Zam about how RDMs in your PT run out of MP before convert and needed to rest just casting haste/refresh/cure/dia.

I've PT'd w/ Aurik, and his relic, ON my RDM, and he's not an MP sponge like you apparently are. Please, quit w/ the 'relic/usukane doesn't make you better than me' bullshit.

Relic/usukane does not make a monk a more competent player than the next (but it should raise said player's damage output). Aurik was a competent monk before he had either of those, and he sure as hell was deemed as highly amongst the peers on the monk forum before he had any of those or haidate. The rest of the nuthanging jockeys who would blindly cling to his calculator know nothing of that, sit down.

That was my point, thanks for reinforcing it.

Naygor is a sub-defaulted troll, trolling RDMs about what we should do b/c apparently he can't XP w/o sucking all the MP from the RDM faster than they're convert recast would allow. My whole point is that his "I'm just as good as you, you just have better gear" is a blanant troll with absolutely no merit, and it's immediately obvious to any RDM that even glanced at the RDM boards on 'Zam last winter.

[Beckwin]

to any RDM that even glanced at the RDM boards on 'Zam

Might not want to advertise that

[Naygor]

Pretty sure that wasn't my point at all on zam, but feel free to keep trying.

[aurik]

Right, but you don't really need to be well-versed in the minute details of a job to understand it's role and potential roles, or to understand what it "needs." I have neither mnk nor war at 75, but I can tell you for damn sure that neither job is in need of significant buffing. I don't have SMN at 75 and I can tell it needs minor tweaking at best, and my PUP and BST are sitting at level 1 but I can tell you that those jobs need a bit of work.

On the contrary, I think you do need a good idea of how a job functions on a minute level before you're qualified to credibly say what a job does or doesn't need. How many people would have agreed in 2004 that warrior could use a buff? Looking back now, were we right, or were we just inexperienced?

[Ryko]

It was unlocked because it's the only severely active topic on this place because the last announced update sucked donkey dick.

That's not the fucking point, do you really think it should continue? It stopped being new at page 20 and I started it on page 14. Yea, it's fun watching the SMNs try to justify wanting something they don't really need, but 27 pages of this shit? It's longer than the original topic.

Personally I don't care either way. And it long since changed topics from the smn thing because a bunch of wannabes fucking ran up and caboosed on aurik's train so they could finally get their naygor shots in. (Don't get me wrong, it's fun but it's funny as shit ot see how many people tried it before and got squelched before they finally had Aurik to block retorts from him) Ignoring the fact that evilliterate and finalquestiondodger haven't really had anything to say on the smn issue for a while and Niro pretty much accepted that it was an agree to disagree topic.

Naygor is a sub-defaulted troll, trolling RDMs about what we should do b/c apparently he can't XP w/o sucking all the MP from the RDM faster than they're convert recast would allow

I'm not seeing where naygor's jobs would be in a position to suck up another RDM's MP, furthermore if you realize he's a troll then why do you automatically believe that he's 100% behind what he's saying to rile you up. Granted you can't assume when he's kidding or not but let's face it, at one point you use the claim of trolling to automatically discredit everything then you use that same reasoning to take everything he says super seriously.

My whole point is that his "I'm just as good as you, you just have better gear" a blanant troll with absolutely no merit,

That would be nice if he said that to begin with, his original argument was that you don't need to have a job at 75 to understand the intricacies of it (and frankly you don't. I understood what made my jobs tick on the way to 75 well before I got it there, the only things that DID change on the way were gear, with a small difference being in WAR and PLD since I had to get used to blink tanking on WAR and went DD/NIN on PLD after 66) and that the implication of mediocrity is pretty much saying the player is terrible (granted it's not exactly the same thing but I'm not accepting a below average player any faster than I'm accepting a terrible one so in function it's negligible). The argument of semantics and dictionaries came in and it got lost until beckwin came up since anything naygor tried to say got squashed by the peanut gallery.

How many people would have agreed in 2004 that warrior could use a buff?

Only the smart ones (which I guess is your point), thing is war/nin even by that point had become so bread and butter that in function it didn't matter to most players since 90% of the people who play WAR only do so as a meritmonkey job. I would much rather listen to someone who understands aspects about the game that are lacking in every sense rather than someone who teabags imps in caedarva thinking a 75 next to their job name gives em credibility.

[BRP]

If this thread hits 40 pages, holy crap haha

[Amele]

It's not semantics. Do you know what a connotation of a word is?

actually, semantics is precisely what connotation is. (for the strict definition of connotation)

[ashke]

to any RDM that even glanced at the RDM boards on 'Zam

Might not want to advertise that

I get bored at work.

[Sidanoir]

Right, but you don't really need to be well-versed in the minute details of a job to understand it's role and potential roles, or to understand what it "needs." I have neither mnk nor war at 75, but I can tell you for damn sure that neither job is in need of significant buffing. I don't have SMN at 75 and I can tell it needs minor tweaking at best, and my PUP and BST are sitting at level 1 but I can tell you that those jobs need a bit of work.

On the contrary, I think you do need a good idea of how a job functions on a minute level before you're qualified to credibly say what a job does or doesn't need. How many people would have agreed in 2004 that warrior could use a buff? Looking back now, were we right, or were we just inexperienced?

People had WAR past 37 in 2004? WOW!

[LD]

Personally I don't care either way. And it long since changed topics from the smn thing because a bunch of wannabes fucking ran up and caboosed on aurik's train so they could finally get their naygor shots in. (Don't get me wrong, it's fun but it's funny as shit ot see how many people tried it before and got squelched before they finally had Aurik to block retorts from him) Ignoring the fact that evilliterate and finalquestiondodger haven't really had anything to say on the smn issue for a while and Niro pretty much accepted that it was an agree to disagree topic.

Hmm... That's a decent point. Kinda why I'm mad, though. If Naygor hadn't said that....

Well, since aurik already has all the angles here (I DID warn naygor) and I don't really care to engage in it....blah. I'll just say it was fun finally having a legitimate avenue for my enduring resentment of the mage class.

ALL GLORY TO THE PROLETARIAT!!

[FinalJustice]

I don't have SMN at 75 and I can tell it needs minor tweaking at best,

The funny thing is, the stuff the majority have been asking for ARE minor tweaks to the job... lol
unless you think adjusting avatar acc, magical attk, buff potency and duration are truly MAJOR.

And yes my Pup is 75 too. So I can talk to you about what MAJOR changes mean. So yes I can have a discussion about PUP too, if the topic presents itself. Pup needs more MAJOR changes then smn no doubt.

[Hapernack]

Is this thread going to turn into a "my job needs this and this to be good" discussion again?

[Ryko]

I don't have SMN at 75 and I can tell it needs minor tweaking at best,

The funny thing is, the stuff the majority have been asking for ARE minor tweaks to the job... lol

Just shut the fuck up already. Every time someone says something you latch onto it then when someone contends it you're like "no one ever said that!", you haven't had a point of your own aside from commenting on what people do or don't say (and half the time it's made up) then when you made a point of your own it took like 4 fucking pages for you to finally answer the fucking question and can't even read the name of the person asking it. You contradict yourself at one point then when beckwin didn't even troll and asked you questions based off the shit you said you got twisted up again. Get the fuck off it, you seem to think that the rare freebie where someone would agree with you (in bashing naygor) means that any of the shit you've said has had any validity the whole time. It doesn't, go back to posting cat pictures since it was the equivalent of being a mute.