Battle System Adjustments (08/14/2007)

[Khamsin]

Right, because there is nothing horribly speculative about proclaiming 2h weapons new merit fad based off a picture of a -3% delay equip and mention of ws adjustment.

Considering the news bit also said 2H weapons would get an inherent attack calculation bonus and the fact that the only job that really makes use of things like Ridill is WAR, it doesn't seem that unlikely.

Speaking of Ridill, time to /toss it now that it'll be useless, sub SAM, and bust out the Fortitude Axe!

Though, to me, the announcement made it seem more like 2h weapons would be better against harder mobs/HNMs than weaker merit mobs. So maybe for balance, dual wield will still be best for merit, and 2h will now be best for HNMs and mid-levels when people still xp on VT-ITs.

I guess SE finally noticed we want improvements not nerfs.

Those will be coming when they describe the job adjustments.

[LD]

You're cumulative stupidity is like 4 large oiled breasts pressed against each other.

2H weapons being improved wont automatically make a person sub SAM. Anyone who does that is a moron and thus doesn't count.
MNK has been forced to sub NIN for ages, though it adds absolutely nothing to us offensively, and that wont change any time soon.

No one is saying Ridill now has a match, they are saying people who don't have a Ridill can use their A+ 2H weapon and not be seen as a tool.

[Ryko]

You're cumulative stupidity

The use of words expressing something other than their literal intention.

[LD]

It's interesting how one typo fucks you over.

I contend, however, that my point is still valid, so you may go fuck you'reself.

[theo]

My reactions to this, in order...

1. HOLY SHIT YES.

2. Better not fuck up my 6 hit setup...

3. Oh god this grip thing is gonna be some ??? Box item from some insanely annoying Assault that you have to repeat 50+ times before you get the drop.

[Spider-Dan]

in the case of BZ: even assuming this stacks in you've got:

current BZ speed fraction (what, .07?) * .97(delay -3%) = ~ .068 (so two thousandths of a percent gain.)

in the case that it stacks linearly with desperate blows, you *might* see as much as a 1% percent gain. (I'd have to run the numbers again)

If it stacks with DB3, it's a great deal more than that.

As I recall, DRK cap with Catastrophe, DB3, Hasso, the whole shebangabang is 93.3%. With BZ, that works out to 2 hits (avg.) every 32.16 delay. If grip stacks on top, that's 96.3% haste, which puts you at 2 hits every 17.76 delay. That's an 81% increase in attack speed.

However, if it doesn't stack into haste calculation (and is pre-deducted like DW delay reduction), then it only pushes you down from 32.16 delay/round to 31.20 delay/round.

[Amele]

in the case of BZ: even assuming this stacks in you've got:

current BZ speed fraction (what, .07?) * .97(delay -3%) = ~ .068 (so two thousandths of a percent gain.)

in the case that it stacks linearly with desperate blows, you *might* see as much as a 1% percent gain. (I'd have to run the numbers again)

If it stacks with DB3, it's a great deal more than that.

As I recall, DRK cap with Catastrophe, DB3, Hasso, the whole shebangabang is 93.3%. With BZ, that works out to 2 hits (avg.) every 32.16 delay. If grip stacks on top, that's 96.3% haste, which puts you at 2 hits every 17.76 delay. That's an 81% increase in attack speed.

However, if it doesn't stack into haste calculation (and is pre-deducted like DW delay reduction), then it only pushes you down from 32.16 delay/round to 31.20 delay/round.

my understanding of DB was that the function was more like:

floor(floor((delay)*(1-haste))*(1-DB))

in which case I would expect this to work like: floor(floor(floor(delay*(1-grip))*(1-haste))*(1-DB))

which gives the number I showed approximately (after you exclude flooring to speed up the math)

in the event that the grip stacks directly with DB, then you get:

delay*(1-haste)*(1-(DB+3)) / delay*(1-haste)*(1-DB) = delay ratio.

so we have .82*(delay*(1-haste) - .85*(delay*(1-haste)) = .82/.85 = .964

so your delay is .04 lower than it was previously (ok, 4% speedup)

if it doesn't stack linearly with DB then it's much less than that.

[Kriz]

I'm probley the only person in FFXI that's about to say this:

CAN I HAVE SOME WHM MEELE GEAR PLEASE THANKS!

You know full well I'm thinking that too

Something to make me want to use staff and Spirit Taker!

[Spungy]

3. Oh god this grip thing is gonna be some ??? Box item from some insanely annoying Assault that will never drop ever and even if it did a RNG would out lot you.

[Akiyama]

3. Oh god this grip thing is gonna be some ??? Box item from some insanely annoying Assault that will never drop ever and even if it did a BRD would out lot you.

[510Meeze]

Let's get some Alchemy action, getting tired of bazaaring Cuisses-1.

[devildrifterX]

As much as i think this update is awesome, i dont envision sams getting much, we already somewhat a bit rigged (see overwhelm) and with 6 hit haste build its pretty nasty, toss on full GK merits with maybe 25-35+ acc and you have a bit of a monster on your hands. Dont see them updating GK ws either, they are really strong already.

Mostly this will be for drk (imo) and drg...and maybe to get some wars off /nin and onto /sam (SE determined to get people away from /nin i swear lol) plus with scythe and Polearm having some really long delays, i think the grips will have alot of haste or -delay idk how many sams would wear a -delay grip cause it could throw off a 6hit, but im too lazy to do any math right now

[Akiyama]

Yes, that's what I'm worried about. I probably wouldn't go with a delay reduction one seeing as it'd turn the Hagun into a 437 delay GKT meaning we'd need somewhere around 25 Store TP instead of the 21 we need now (someone told me) and I just don't think the gear I'd give up for the 4 extra store TP would be worse the -13 delay or so we'd get. I'm hoping for a +acc/attack grip for us GKT users. That'll definitely be sexy. Darn SE. D:

[DragonCloud64]

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/spungy/bstlube.jpg

lmao, someone make a Rocl Grip, stat

[Spider-Dan]

my understanding of DB was that the function was more like:

floor(floor((delay)*(1-haste))*(1-DB))

I don't believe so. In the BZ thread, the number 93.3% is mentioned several times as the "haste cap."

25% from gear
43.3% from spells
10% from Hasso
15% from DB3
= 93.3%

Based on that, I think they're all calculated in the same phase.

[devildrifterX]

you shoulda made old bay lol

[baudelaire]

For Samurai, this seems good on the surface, but it's the "losing TP when you switch grips" thing that doesn't sit well with me. It means that we'll likely have to choose between a grip that's good for TPing (giving storetp and/or acc, and potentially freeing up whichever slot we have storetp gear on - hands/feet) or a grip that's good for WSing (with some sort of str or gorget-like acc/dmg bonus).

Either way you look at it, this thread needs more polygrip droppage from polyflans. {Yes, please.}

[Cookiemonster]

It would be nice to see a grip that cancelled/reduces the damage from aoe.

[LD]

I don't think it makes much sense to say your 6-hit set-up is in jeopardy when Dual Wield and Martial Arts are the only attack speed enhancements that alter your TP return. The way that piece is worded is similar to Hasso, meaning it will probably act like Haste and wont lower your TP return, just your delay.

[Siatdiat]

It would be nice to see a grip that cancelled/reduces the damage from aoe.

Go go Pld/nin w/ GS and the super invincibility mode grip.

That wouldnt be overpowered at all.