Will it Fly?

[Ryany]

The problem is how the question was asked to some people. Many people (like myself) were not looking at the thread and had someone else explaining the question in party/linkshell chat months ago. I remember specifically asking, "is the plane moving forward?" and the person explaining it said "no".

[levish]

I totally thought you were thinking of using the treadmill to launch the plane forward.

This would already be in use along my line of thinking on aircraft carriers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_catapult

not as cool as a treadmill though

Usually planes flying from airports have plenty of room to get to speed at a rate of accel that won't the passengers which are usually pretty ruffled by a "normal" takeoff.

A takeoff from a catapult might cause issues from people with heart conditions etc etc

[Lockecole7]

I totally thought you were thinking of using the treadmill to launch the plane forward.

Not trying to be mean, but seriously? If you don't understand the concept of what's being asked here, and what the actual exact issue people were debating about...I'd recommend just quitting while you're ahead.

The idea that a plastic and foam toy plane, partially suspended by wires, is an accurate model of a real plane is a bit lulzy. That, and the guy doing it is completely unable to keep the plane still, let alone at a constant speed.

No, not really, it's still the same concept. A) It's not "suspended by wires", it was simply a track to keep it moving in a straight line. He didn't even use the wire in the second example, l2watchboth. Question was, with equating wheel speed(plane speed) and treadmill speed, would an object still be able to move forward, due to jet propulsion. The answer is undoubtedly, "Yes." He showed that at the same torque/speed of the plane, it didn't matter how fast the treadmill was going, the plane was moving forward INDEPENDENTLY of the ground below it. Sure he had difficulty keeping it settled, but that had to merely do with the sensitivity of the remote control he was using, and the lopsidedness of a plane taped to a matchbox car. Obviously those would not be issues on a real plane.

"Could a plane take off if it wasn't able to move forward? - Why isn't it able to move forward? - Uh, it's on a gigantic treadmill"

The answer is yes, it couldn't take off if it "couldnt move forward." Obviously though, due to the experiments above, it can move forward, and in effect would nullify the treadmill completely. Essentially the difference between being on a treadmill and on normal ground is not a factor, once you hit enough torque to keep you from moving backwards, everything after that is forward movement.

[Seditedi]

Quite possibly the dumbest question I've ever read.

[Lockecole7]

Please go back to whereever you found this and tell the people that think it can fly that they are idiots and should spend 45 minutes each day banging their head into a wall.

As previous posters have said, what gives a plane it's lift is the air passage past the wings properly angled provided by the thrust of the engine, not the turning of its' wheels....

How's your head doing? 45 minutes is a LONG time.

[Skyylya]

Please go back to whereever you found this and tell the people that think it can fly that they are idiots and should spend 45 minutes each day banging their head into a wall.

As previous posters have said, what gives a plane it's lift is the air passage past the wings properly angled provided by the thrust of the engine, not the turning of its' wheels....

How's your head doing? 45 minutes is a LONG time.

maybe I should ask you the same question? Exactly what part of what I said is incorrect? A stationary plane will not take off, read the OTHER posts in this thread and you'll see where i explain that, and explain everything that mythbusters confirmed last night

[Priran]

I just finished watching the Mythbusters thing; they stated that the conveyor belt was constantly moving at takeoff velocity, whereas the OP said that its speed changed to match the plane, some sources plainly state that the conveyor was completely negating forward movement, and others state that the speed changes to match the speed at which the wheels are rotating.

It's like a nerd-rage fueling game of telephone, and you end up with one of two things: physics problem and a what-if scenario. In the case of the latter, the fact that free-spinning wheels would be basically unaffected by a treadmill is incidental, because the treadmill is just there to explain why the plane isn't moving to that guy who always thinks everything is a trick question.

It's not "suspended by wires", it was simply a track to keep it moving in a straight line. He didn't even use the wire in the second example, l2watchboth.

The wires visibly pinch together near the plane, which means that they're exerting force. Also sorry, I guess I haven't honed my mutant prescience to a sharp enough degree to know when I'm supposed to watch a second video you didn't link to or even mention.

[Remyo]

a system in place to constantly monitor the exact speed of the airplane on it. As the plane powers up the jet engines and moves forward, the treadmill moves rearward, in the opposite direction the plane is moving, at the same speed.

All I've seen so far are planes taking off from treadmills maintaining a constant speed. My understanding of the question was that the treadmill negated forward movement of the plane, and that the problem was whether or not the thrust from the engines of the plane would be enough to make it take off.


That being said I haven't seen this MythBusters thing, did it air yesterday?

it aired last night (wednesday) as their new episode. also had a cool bit about bugs and if they could survive a nuclear holocaust.

[Lockecole7]

Please go back to whereever you found this and tell the people that think it can fly that they are idiots and should spend 45 minutes each day banging their head into a wall.

As previous posters have said, what gives a plane it's lift is the air passage past the wings properly angled provided by the thrust of the engine, not the turning of its' wheels....

How's your head doing? 45 minutes is a LONG time.

maybe I should ask you the same question? Exactly what part of what I said is incorrect? A stationary plane will not take off, read the OTHER posts in this thread and you'll see where i explain that, and explain everything that mythbusters confirmed last night

Head comment was meant to imply that I was also in the same situation, haha. Hence the sympathetic capitalization. =( I can see how it could have been a whoosh, though.

The wires visibly pinch together near the plane, which means that they're exerting force. Also sorry, I guess I haven't honed my mutant prescience to a sharp enough degree to know when I'm supposed to watch a second video you didn't link to or even mention.

You seriously think the wires somehow are holding the plane up? I just don't see how even if they were exerting force in some way, that it would effect the experiment at all. The only motion they could restrict would be lateral.

Also there was a second video in the youtube link, I linked the wrong one, regardless the stopper and the wire do not effect the experiment as a whole, in anyway.

[XxfaustxX]

it will take off, mythbusters already proved this... next question

wheels aren't powered by the engine, they are negated in the equation. the engines move air, not the wheels. the wheels will spin same speed as treadmill (just about) without the engines running. since the wheels will be spinning the same speed as treadmill the slightest thrust will propel the plane forwards, full thrust will make it move forward (on the "treadmill") and take of like normal.

only thing that bothered me when they were testing it, dunno if it bothered anyone else. when they were showing the "cartoon drawing" of the experiment they showed the plane stationary on the treadmill, but when they did the experiment it moved forward on the treadmill and took off.

[Priran]

it will take off, mythbusters already proved this... next question

wheels aren't powered by the engine, they are negated in the equation. the engines move air, not the wheels. the wheels will spin same speed as treadmill (just about) without the engines running. since the wheels will be spinning the same speed as treadmill the slightest thrust will propel the plane forwards, full thrust will make it move forward (on the "treadmill") and take of like normal.

only thing that bothered me when they were testing it, dunno if it bothered anyone else. when they were showing the "cartoon drawing" of the experiment they showed the plane stationary on the treadmill, but when they did the experiment it moved forward on the treadmill and took off.

Thanks slowpoke, we've only been discussing it for an entire page.

You seriously think the wires somehow are holding the plane up? I just don't see how even if they were exerting force in some way, that it would effect the experiment at all. The only motion they could restrict would be lateral.

Also there was a second video in the youtube link, I linked the wrong one, regardless the stopper and the wire do not effect the experiment as a whole, in anyway.

A plastic and foam plane is putting next to no downward force on its wheels. When he speeds up the treadmill, the increased friction between the axle the plane's body should either slow the plane down or make it lose control. We can't tell if it's slowing down because this "white dot" on his controller is moronically microscopic for a Youtube video, and it can't lose control because it's being held onto the track by the wires.

In the first video, though, the plane runs off the treadmill noticeably slower at high speeds than it does at low/off, so the friction from the wheels is obviously making the plane accelerate.

[XxfaustxX]

Thanks slowpoke, we've only been discussing it for an entire page.

yeah sorry ; ;

[Skyylya]

Please go back to whereever you found this and tell the people that think it can fly that they are idiots and should spend 45 minutes each day banging their head into a wall.

As previous posters have said, what gives a plane it's lift is the air passage past the wings properly angled provided by the thrust of the engine, not the turning of its' wheels....

How's your head doing? 45 minutes is a LONG time.

maybe I should ask you the same question? Exactly what part of what I said is incorrect? A stationary plane will not take off, read the OTHER posts in this thread and you'll see where i explain that, and explain everything that mythbusters confirmed last night

Head comment was meant to imply that I was also in the same situation, haha. Hence the sympathetic capitalization. =( I can see how it could have been a whoosh, though.

My bad, i process things quickly and not always thoroughly cause I can only come here for short bursts while i'm at work