Ridill vs Mandau vs MNK/WAR

[Ravenlokk]

Get the fuck out of the maat's cap thread.

I'm personally a fan of MNK/WAR (mainly on colibri) because i dont like spamming 3 foods per mob, but thats just me. Max counter merits and AF2 feet on mnk goes a long way for a counterstance setup- and the mp consumption (healing) isnt really any higher than with a conventional war/nin etc party. I dont party with ridill warriors anymore(i have ebody and ridill too lol), but i do ocassionally bring a mandau thf because the DMG vs TP spam is a lot more bearable imo. I think that even if ridill is higher DPS on its own, the damage it does to the rest of the pt (general tp spam) makes it less appealing for a long colibri merit pt.

Ok Continue.

[Demosthenes11]

Colibri do WS damage? The only downside to giving colibri tp is food consumption...

[Ravenlokk]

When i said "damage to the party" i was referring to detrimental effects in general, not literally damage dealt. >_<

[Eaglestrike]

Well I just read that thread and I don't really have much I care to add. Just that if I was one of the Mandau thf's Divisor was talking about I freely admit I parse against poor ridill warriors...well and monks too for that matter. So far my best competition for damage was a warrior without Ridill (who had just about everything else though) but that was also pre-Mandau. My gear is still pretty gimp too so I'm sure if I went to Asura/Fairy I'd get owned by the super ridill monks currently.

But just because Nikko (who may have been referring to me since I've merited with his gimpy nin ) mentioned the extra work of grouping with a thief, it's really not. I only care about placement once a minute and can generally line it up for a WS at the start of a fight. Maybe other servers have some special DD's that can grab hate purely on attack rounds but just that first voke to get a mob off the bard is enough for me to use SA, mob and his target just needs to be still for 3-4s. Otherwise just don't constantly run circles around the mob and I can TA someone, not much work at all.

[Skeetaru]

If losing your food is really worth less dps (Which in turn results in more exp/hr) then I dont know if I have anything to add.

[divisortheory]

Well I just read that thread and I don't really have much I care to add. Just that if I was one of the Mandau thf's Divisor was talking about I freely admit I parse against poor ridill warriors...well and monks too for that matter. So far my best competition for damage was a warrior without Ridill (who had just about everything else though) but that was also pre-Mandau. My gear is still pretty gimp too so I'm sure if I went to Asura/Fairy I'd get owned by the super ridill monks currently.

I hadn't heard you personally talk about parsing against good Ridill WARs, so no you weren't.

And yea, I feel sorry for the poor saps who are spamming 3 foods per mob when they party with me, but it kills mobs fast so fuck it. long as you macro your meat mithkabob it's tolerable.

[Xajii]

and the mp consumption (healing) isnt really any higher than with a conventional war/nin etc party.

I've partied with Mandau, with Ridills and with MNK/WAR... and from a RDM's point of view, MNK/WAR is very much an MP sink and much different to anyone with utsusemi. Chakra isn't nearly enough healing to make up for the amount of damage they take. Little defense, for one, and even with countering (MNK/WAR in the pts I'm speaking usually Sanzou with 240-some guard skill and presumably a counterstance setup) they have so much hate on them that they end up taking a massive amount of damage no matter what you're fighting.

[Ravenlokk]

when i mnk war pt, the mobs get 1 TP attack off (sometimes none).

And i try to main tank and typically get hit 2-3 times per mob when i voke at the start. The mobs usually die to fast to provoke (avg mob is 20-25 seconds) every mob though so sometimes i lose hate . My pt last night was MNK MNK NIN BRD BRD RDM rdm was able to haste everyone, refresh the brds and keep up with mp... idk if he was even converting >.> (nin was usually off tanking extra mobs because we often had 2-3 at a time because we were trying to drive out the other pts.. which we eventually did )

We usually minuetx2 marchx2 and use bream or squid(+1) sushi. I have sword/gkt/shield merits
maxed counter and kick though

Ive also done some 3x MNK/WAR 3x BRD parties where i was the only "healer" 2boxing a WHM outside of the PT and i was able to haste people, and keep up with the curing tossing out a Cure5 every other mob and resting in between. I dont party with lazy bards and expect them to sub a mage job and cure a bit, since lullaby is sort of moot when you can countertank adds for higher DPS(but you're usually stuck waiting for pops, and/or fighting the occasional wivre... even with no competition). If you have good people fully utilizing their support jobs its a lot easier.

[Judai]

and the mp consumption (healing) isnt really any higher than with a conventional war/nin etc party.

I've partied with Mandau, with Ridills and with MNK/WAR... and from a RDM's point of view, MNK/WAR is very much an MP sink and much different to anyone with utsusemi. Chakra isn't nearly enough healing to make up for the amount of damage they take. Little defense, for one, and even with countering (MNK/WAR in the pts I'm speaking usually Sanzou with 240-some guard skill and presumably a counterstance setup) they have so much hate on them that they end up taking a massive amount of damage no matter what you're fighting.

When there is one MNK/WAR in the pt, yes they become MP sponge. With 3 MNK/WARs, they destroy mobs so fast they don't get to attack much.

[Slott]

Too many bullshit factors to consider -

1) Who's main tanking, their dps will be lower since they have to recast blink (aside from the monk/war i guess) - but this will get their tp eaten
2) Who are you assisting off of, if 3 colibri are slept in camp, whoever decides which to hit will most certainly get a few more hits in than the other people who hit next.
3) Are melee being dicks and spinning mob, if so sneak attack is worthless.
4) Is thief being a dick and purposefully trick attacking on someone to make them tank, and then they have to recast blink
5) Gear differences - Just because you have a ridill and adaman hauberk means nothing to me - there are plenty of other slots.

I've beaten ridill wars, i've lost to ridill wars all for variability in what I stated above. Things wont ever be completely equal

Also songs the bard has to play come into play too - if the wars suck too much and need a madrigal because their acc sucks and they wont spam 129018409184 sushi, it kills my dps hard.

All in all, it's a stupid arguement

[Priran]

Any time I try MNK/WAR in merits, it's like it flips a switch that makes mobs use twice as many multihits, so I end up either a MP sponge or, occasionally, dead.

[Naygor]

Anyone else find it ironic he's complaining about tp spam on colibri with war/nin yet wants to come on mnk/war, which is a helluva lot more annoying if you're talking about ws damage. If you're looking at it from the point of view of getting your food eaten, you're gonna pull hate a lot either way on mnk/war and it's not that hard to afford mithkabobs. Sounds like a bunch of epeen crap to me.

[SamanosukeShiva]

IMO on Collibri camp,

SAM/RNG > all DD

I'd be happy to parse vs anyone in shiva.

[Medivac]

instead of mnk/war; wouldnt it be better xp to get your ridil and ebody, then go out to nyzul and kill mamools, wont get the chain 100+ but same xp'ish and you dont lose ur food

[Xno]

never seen a drk/sam apocalypse in action ?

kinda like mnk/war but i heal myself

[Starr]

IMO on Collibri camp,

SAM/RNG > all DD

I'd be happy to parse vs anyone in shiva.

Someone take him up on this.

[NynJa]

Anyone else find it ironic he's complaining about tp spam on colibri with war/nin yet wants to come on mnk/war, which is a helluva lot more annoying if you're talking about ws damage. If you're looking at it from the point of view of getting your food eaten, you're gonna pull hate a lot either way on mnk/war and it's not that hard to afford mithkabobs. Sounds like a bunch of epeen crap to me.

you're an idiot:
ridill, occasionally attacks 2-3 times, occasionally feeds 10-30tp to the mob.

mnk/war feed like 5 tp per fist after all subtle blow, and hit for more than a ridill.


I've healed a mnk/war x3 party as my PLD70/WHM35. Mobs refused to TP attack untill it hit 20%, which is "tp spam" mode.

[Eaglestrike]

IMO on Collibri camp,

SAM/RNG > all DD

I'd be happy to parse vs anyone in shiva.

Someone take him up on this.

I'll do it and also make sure my parser keeps track of how much damage he takes

Should I pause the parser between his deaths or no?

[Churchill]

Getting chain 100+ at Mamools is hard?

amconfused.

[Xno]

and what about sam with amano , is it better than top geared ridill war ?