Examining players

[Max™]

I wasn't actually defending JP's like they deserve special treatment or anything, we're all made of the same dirt.

I was simply explaining why, because several people still don't seem to understand it.

Just in case it wasn't clear, it isn't just a NA checking JP thing, JP's generally get irked when other JP's check them without asking first too.

[Credos]

I wasn't actually defending JP's like they deserve special treatment or anything, we're all made of the same dirt.

I was simply explaining why, because several people still don't seem to understand it.

Just in case it wasn't clear, it isn't just a NA checking JP thing, JP's generally get irked when other JP's check them without asking first too.

Nah, I know; I was more responding to the social aspect of the issue than anything. Apologies if you thought my entire post was directed at you.

[tyraravenlocke]

I will reiterate my point to mr/mrs aplhacat.

You can and should check people whenever you feel like it.

Square Enix, in their infinite wisdom has provided this functionality to you as a standard, and essential part of the game.

They have shown MANY times in the past that they can and will remove offensive parts of the game at will. (Hi2u old mithra sit emote was it?)

They are pretty much the most traditional and conservative Japanese company you will ever play a MMO from, IF check was really that offensive, the message would be changed, and furthermore they would most likely put something out via POL, or hell even the old vanadiel times talking about the cultural difference with the check command.

This is EXACTLY the sort of thing they would do.

I didn't start randomly GMing/Slapping the crap outta Japanese players when I was a low level player, getting tells from japanese players telling me to leave a camping spot because "NA not allowed, JP only. [Leave]" even though it was very offensive to me.

People on all sides of the world need to become more culturally sensitive to each other, in this case are you really saying that the American culture of checking people is inferior to the Japanese one of not?

It really shouldn't matter, if you want to check someone once and look at thier linkshell name or thier gear, do so. If they start having an issue with it, stop. That's pretty much the correct way, wouldn't you say?

[Ein]

newsflash: you're on a japanese game. we're not talking about how some japanese people told you "JPonly" once when you were a noob. we're talking about /check, and OFFENSIVE isn't the word. i think it is more taboo, most will not do it. most will not freak out in such a way as some of the people have posted.

but why provoke people? if you want to talk about someone respecting cultures, the only thing you can do is abide by this yourself. guess what you're not doing?

[Credos]

newsflash: you're on a japanese game. we're not talking about how some japanese people told you "JPonly" once when you were a noob. we're talking about /check, and OFFENSIVE isn't the word. i think it is more taboo, most will not do it. most will not freak out in such a way as some of the people have posted.

but why provoke people? if you want to talk about someone respecting cultures, the only thing you can do is abide by this yourself. guess what you're not doing?

If it was taboo and caused such a problem, why exactly would it be added to the game?

If it was such a problem with the JP community I would figure they'd have the foresight not to add it.

[Izzy]

it seems like a community created taboo on the JP side, not so much a total japanese taboo.

[Credos]

it seems like a community created taboo on the JP side, not so much a total japanese taboo.

This is what I was getting at; just because a small subsect of a specific community deems it offensive or "taboo", that doesn't mean that it needs to be followed by everyone.

[Ein]

/slap can offend people, too. omg why is it in the game? ;;

as izzy said, it's a taboo created by the community. there's no reason to remove it, it has its uses and purposes. but the ... protocol in the japanese community is to ask first. now if you act so much like you don't care, why post? when you piss off someone on the other side of the world using your anonymous alter ego on a video game, do you yell "WHATEVA, WHATEVA, I DO WHAT I WANT" before posting on BG about how much you don't care about what you just did?

the truth is, most japanese see it as "oh its an NA, who cares," and only a few will freak out. if they do freak out, especially in PT, its probably because they did not want to PT with you anyway. the truth is, it doesn't matter and 99% of people really don't care, and are only slightly annoyed by it coming from an NA. but if you're in a Japanese pt, and you're at least vaguely aware of the protocol, and you do it anyway, don't post about how THEY need to tolerate YOUR culture.

because it goes both ways, and you can only send it from your own.

edit : last I checked it was not followed by everyone, just the japanese userbase which is NOT a small subsect of a specific community. just because not all of them freak out , does not mean they're not a bit :/ and it being done.

[Sidanoir]

Who fucking cares.

If it bothers you filter it. If you don't want to and it still bothers you then stop being such a fucking pussy.


I just have no appriciation for people by are bothered by something like this. Only time you can get angry is if you get spam checked but that is something else.

QFT...its a game command and there are ways to disable the message you get if examined.....

[Credos]

/slap can offend people, too. omg why is it in the game? ;;

as izzy said, it's a taboo created by the community. there's no reason to remove it, it has its uses and purposes. but the ... protocol in the japanese community is to ask first. now if you act so much like you don't care, why post? when you piss off someone on the other side of the world using your anonymous alter ego on a video game, do you yell "WHATEVA, WHATEVA, I DO WHAT I WANT" before posting on BG about how much you don't care about what you just did?

the truth is, most japanese see it as "oh its an NA, who cares," and only a few will freak out. if they do freak out, especially in PT, its probably because they did not want to PT with you anyway. the truth is, it doesn't matter and 99% of people really don't care, and are only slightly annoyed by it coming from an NA. but if you're in a Japanese pt, and you're at least vaguely aware of the protocol, and you do it anyway, don't post about how THEY need to tolerate YOUR culture.

because it goes both ways, and you can only send it from your own.

edit : last I checked it was not followed by everyone, just the japanese userbase which is NOT a small subsect of a specific community. just because not all of them freak out , does not mean they're not a bit :/ and it being done.

Actually, truth of the matter is that I don't really check anyone at all because I generally PT with the same people all the time, and I know what kind of gear they have.

With that being said, the times that I do check people it's just to get an idea of what gear they are using in their non displayable slots. This is usually when I'm leveling a job that I'm not familiar with. I don't go around screaming I do what I want because frankly I don't give half a shit to check people all the time. I am posting because it is my opinion (yes you're allowed to have those) it's absurd to get so offended by something so minimal. When I do check someone, I'm not looking to kancho them or read over their shoulder. There is literally no threat to them at all, so I'm sorry if I find it a bit absurd for people to get so bent out of shape about it.

If they don't want to PT with me that's no big deal, don't PT with me; frankly I don't need to PT with the blessed Japanese players and make funny faces with an IME plugin.

I play FFXI because it's fun and I enjoy the challenges, not because it's some fucking political forum for learning about the social structures of other societies. At the end of the day most people want to have something to complain about; if people really are that bothered and lose sleep about it, they need to get over it and get out more.

[Octavious]

if people don't like being checked, If memory serves SE put a filter in for it. i've had everything filted on my main character since i found those filters.

Only time i've left em off is bazaaring overnight on my mule a long time ago...

I check ppl whenever/wherever without a second thought, because if it annoys them, filter it. Don't go changing gear because then I just get a reason to spam /c <t> and enjoy it as you fume in angst at me checking what is probably sub par equipment. There's always that rare time I check someone and compliment them, so its not all bad ^^

[superfob]

90% if the time, if I'm checking you, be sure that I'm screen shotting your gimp gear.

I have my check filtered, and usually only know when someone's checked my gear is by browsing my bazaar or commenting on my bazaar message.

[alphacat]

Look, if you wanna debate the fact that just because it's a game mechanic, that means you don't have to care about how ppl feel about it, then read my lotting during exp PT comment. In case that flew over your head, here's another one. <call> is a function of the game. It's made so ppl can use it. So, does that mean you should put a <call> into your macro whenever you provoke? It's annoying isn't it, but it's just a sound, you are free to turn the sound off aren't you?

Bottom line is, if you know something will annoy people, why continue doing so? If you can do the simple gesture of asking if you may check to resolve a moment of awkwardness, why not? If I know something provokes or annoys another person, for whatever reason, and there is a way to reduce the tension, why wouldn't I take the extra step? It just comes down to whether you're a jackass or you are an adult. I'm afraid to say, most ppl playing this game are more of the former.

Let me form a conclusion. It's been said why JP dislike it for reason already stated, you can continue to do it, but just don't whine when ppl give you a bad response. There is a reason why to this day a lot of JP still put JP Only in their seacom, reason is, most NA will do whatever they want whenever they want. So if you wanna go around doing as you please, don't cry about JP only.

Peace out.

[Yutuyu]

Look, if you wanna debate the fact that just because it's a game mechanic, that means you don't have to care about how ppl feel about it, then read my lotting during exp PT comment. In case that flew over your head, here's another one. <call> is a function of the game. It's made so ppl can use it. So, does that mean you should put a <call> into your macro whenever you provoke? It's annoying isn't it, but it's just a sound, you are free to turn the sound off aren't you?

Actually you can't mute <call> without muting your sound entirely (or using some third party method). But it's not possible to remove it only. It's also not possible to disable lotting. It is possible to remove any annoyance you may receive from checks, simply by filtering them.

Bottom line is, if you know something will annoy people, why continue doing so? If you can do the simple gesture of asking if you may check to resolve a moment of awkwardness, why not? If I know something provokes or annoys another person, for whatever reason, and there is a way to reduce the tension, why wouldn't I take the extra step? It just comes down to whether you're a jackass or you are an adult. I'm afraid to say, most ppl playing this game are more of the former.

Maybe taking the extra step provokes and annoys ME? Maybe I'm irritated by their stupidity. Maybe I find baseless cultural notions offensive. If they can dictate my actions based on irritation, by your logic, shouldn't I be able to dictate theirs?

Let me form a conclusion. It's been said why JP dislike it for reason already stated, you can continue to do it, but just don't whine when ppl give you a bad response. There is a reason why to this day a lot of JP still put JP Only in their seacom, reason is, most NA will do whatever they want whenever they want. So if you wanna go around doing as you please, don't cry about JP only.

Peace out.

No, the reason why there's a lot of JP only in their comment is because the Japanese are elitist, racist, and butthurt about NAs being better at HNM than them.

Stop making excuses for oversensitive morons. You can buy used panties out of vending machines in Japan, yet apparently it doesn't keep them from getting their panties in a bunch over someone looking at their gear through an ingame mechanic people of their own nationality created.

[alphacat]

Actually you can't mute <call> without muting your sound entirely (or using some third party method). But it's not possible to remove it only. It's also not possible to disable lotting.

Exactly, that's my point, why should people mute their sound entirely because you're a fuckard and like to spam <call>? Same applies to /c.

It's also not possible to disable lotting. It is possible to remove any annoyance you may receive from checks, simply by filtering them.

I stopped reading. You lost all merits. Learn to play.

[Septimus]

This discussion amuses me.

I rarely ever check people because I don't care about people who aren't me. But it is always funny that people talk about JPs being offended about being checked without asking, yet have no qualms about checking me without asking. It was really funny when the shell holder of a JP linkshell checked my second character on the way to Dragon's Aery, but then changed gear when said character checked him back.

The whole thing is a bunch of horse feathers.

[Intense]

Bottom line is, if you know something will annoy people, why continue doing so? If you can do the simple gesture of asking if you may check to resolve a moment of awkwardness, why not? If I know something provokes or annoys another person, for whatever reason, and there is a way to reduce the tension, why wouldn't I take the extra step? It just comes down to whether you're a jackass or you are an adult. I'm afraid to say, most ppl playing this game are more of the former.

This is far from the bottomline, and a pretty weak arguement. Its impossible to know whether something you do may offend another person if you dont know them. You cant go through life (or in this case, FFXI lol.) worrying you might offend someone. Archibaldcrane brought up a good point earlier, if they get offended by something like /check, its their problem not mine.

I rarely ever check people because I don't care about people who aren't me.

rofl

[alphacat]

This discussion amuses me.

I rarely ever check people because I don't care about people who aren't me. But it is always funny that people talk about JPs being offended about being checked without asking, yet have no qualms about checking me without asking. It was really funny when the shell holder of a JP linkshell checked my second character on the way to Dragon's Aery, but then changed gear when said character checked him back.

The whole thing is a bunch of horse feathers.

There are retards on both sides of the fence. It's just that only NA has any say in this thread. /c when you're camping HNM is pretty much fair game, Son Szu said "know your enemy", and it applies here. Again, I stress, there are retards on both sides. /c'ing someone without asking doesn't make you a fuckard, but knowing it's offensive and whining about getting check spam or whatever after you do means you're an idiot.

[Yutuyu]

Actually you can't mute <call> without muting your sound entirely (or using some third party method). But it's not possible to remove it only. It's also not possible to disable lotting.

Exactly, that's my point, why should people mute their sound entirely because you're a fuckard and like to spam <call>? Same applies to /c.

...why on earth would ever want to see anyone check you? What purpose does it serve?

It's also not possible to disable lotting. It is possible to remove any annoyance you may receive from checks, simply by filtering them.

I stopped reading. You lost all merits. Learn to play.

...unless you're talking about Quartermaster. That... well, doesn't count at all. Who would let you set quartermaster in a party? You're going to write me off for that? Someone's looking for an easy way out. You probably didn't want to apply the actually important parts of my post which call out your blatant hypocrisy. :D :D

[Izzy]

No offense to those that support "OMG DONT CHECK ME", but if you have shitty gear, I have a right to know and to not invite you to my party if you suck.