Why people get kicked from Uber.

[Coldone]

Threads like these get me thru my day at work with a smile on my face.

[aurik]

Still haven't read the OP, but since we're talking about point systems...

Has anyone considered using a point system where there are a fixed number of points to be awarded for a particular event, which is then divided among participants? It seems to me from outside observation that DKP-based LSes tend to have a huge feast-or-famine problem, where lots of people show up to the events which return the best points for effort spent.

For example, people will happily AFK in the pit or at cerb or at tiamat because they get points while they don't have to actually be at their computer or active. Cue the "kings are fun because I can do other things for 3 hours" argument. Getting people to do Dynamis on the clock can be a chore, especially if they have their relic armor already, because they have to actually do stuff the entire time, and get the same time-credit for much more effort. Then you end up with 30 people showing up for a Rostrum Pumps run when you only really need 12-18.

Instead of rewarding people simply for spending time, maybe try rewarding people for spending time doing things that few others want to do. Everyone sick of sea farming for 1 point per hour with 18? Then give the 6 people who showed up anyway 3 points per hour for getting stuff done that nobody else wants to do.

Another thing that should be considered is a sliding scale for item cost depending on actual rarity. For example, if the LS gets its first ridill drop on the 10th fafnir, charge twice as many points as the one that subsequently drops on the 15th ridill.

[layoneil]

There actually is a "universal competence" and it has to do with command of one's native language. See definition 3.

anyone that you deem "universally competent" is automatically a competent contributor to an HNM LS?

You have just committed what is known as a non sequitur. You're argument is taking random directions in an attempt to cover up flaws in your own logic...

obviously? i was doing it on purpose.

just respond to the last two lines in the other post, since you conveniently skipped them.

---

Sorry, I'd rather take 18 competent players with hectic real life schedules over 64 incompetent leeches who only show up to get items and contribute nothing but attendance numbers.

if what you just said was true than the 2nd group would not have killed anything and nothing would have dropped to be rewarded to anyone.

the simple fact that something died and something dropped means within that group there was some form of competence and some from of contribution by the people who showed up. certainly there can and will be leeches, but it's never that extreme.

but to say that makes them more dedicated is a fallacy.

you don't reward solely based on dedication, it can be considered but the primary consideration should be contribution not dedication.

also is someone who's playing the game at 25% capacity (say a BLM that can only nuke but not stun anything on time) at 3 AM after 18 hours of work an "incompetent leech" or extremely dedicated?

[Zosi]

I'm sorry, your IQ doesn't mean shit about your ability to evaluate loot systems in a video game, and in that context, you very definitely ARE a retard. Here's your hat:

         /\
        /  \
       /    \
      /      \
     /        \
    /  RETARD  \
   /____________\
__(______________)__

[rydiu]

anyone that you deem "universally competent" is automatically a competent contributor to an HNM LS?

It doesn't matter who I deem competent...its your life, do with it as you please.

Being a "contributor" is not something one can be competent at. Please read the definition carefully and look up any words you might have the slightest doubt about.

also is someone who's playing the game at 25% capacity (say a BLM that can only nuke but not stun anything on time) at 3 AM after 18 hours of work an "incompetent leech" or extremely dedicated?

No, they're most likely crazy for working 18 hours followed by something other than sleep.

[Soprano]

I don't post frequently, but this topic intrigued me; now I don't have like a Math degree or IQ of 150 or w/e, but:

If someone is a very competent player with some nice gears (ridill, ebody, etc etc etc), but yet don't really show up to anything or most things, how exactly is he assisting your LS? OP mentioned that he missed some farm sessions while others attended, thus he was lowered on the list for the Love Torque, made perfect sense to me.

And if someone is not a competent player to begin with, is in your ls, and shows no improvments towards being a decent player, why is he in your ls and waiting for loot to begin with?

By that logic (assuming we are not talking about a social LS or something), we can say that most players in that LS are competent. So why should the OP get the item? Because RL > FFXI so therefore, screw over someone that is competent AND is more dedicated than the OP? Usually, it's always the leeches that complain about them not being at the front of the line for the loot because they can't be online. Such is life, find a shell that you can actually attend events?

[Nystul]

The people that show up the most and help out at events the most should be given priority because you'll get the most useage out of said item (assuming it's job appropriate. Ie, don't give the novio to a pld and blm guy who almost always ends up tanking shit). But it's silly to do anything other than to give priority to people who are most around.

That being said, you shouldn't be dropping folks off the list for an IRL event. But in my shell we just don't care. We don't do points but not being there for work is the same as not being there because you're playing WoW or something. It doesn't matter. Point is you're not there and so you'll have to wait for the folks that ARE there to get equipped first. You're welcome to get your items...eventually. But you won't be first in line. Whats so bad about that?

Any other way of running things just doesn't make sense to me.

[Hellsashes]

I may be missing the point here, but...

yeah, if it wasn't a point system, then yes, his poor attendance should prevent him from getting loot, but it was. him not showing up for events only puts him farther back in line, so i dont see the reason to completely remove him. And don't say it's because people behind him deserve it more. If they can't surpass his piss poor atendance rating they deserve it even less, and if they do deserve it they should have easily passed him in the points line. it just seems stupid to take him off.

[rydiu]

And if someone is not a competent player to begin with, is in your ls, and shows no improvments towards being a decent player, why is he in your ls and waiting for loot to begin with?

Every great LS has at least a few people who aren't the most skilled or best players, maybe even a person or two with..um...a very strange personality(s). (anyone here ever meet Dung?) They usually make up for it in some way, be it endless dumb entertainment or just having more social skills than their peers.

Its just too bad you guys are so obsessed with loot rather than having fun... I don't mind being out-lotted by someone who's only been in the LS for a few months and attended to 2-3% of the stuff I've been to so long as I'm having a good time....

I don't plan to sell my account, so its not "work" to me... just a fun past-time.

[S N K]

The people that show up the most and help out at events the most should be given priority because you'll get the most useage out of said item (assuming it's job appropriate. Ie, don't give the novio to a pld and blm guy who almost always ends up tanking shit). But it's silly to do anything other than to give priority to people who are most around.

That being said, you shouldn't be dropping folks off the list for an IRL event. But in my shell we just don't care. We don't do points but not being there for work is the same as not being there because you're playing WoW or something. It doesn't matter. Point is you're not there and so you'll have to wait for the folks that ARE there to get equipped first. You're welcome to get your items...eventually. But you won't be first in line. Whats so bad about that?

Any other way of running things just doesn't make sense to me.

Stop soiling this thread with common sense...

Oh and...

Its just too bad you guys are so obsessed with loot rather than having fun...

For a lot of end gamers, working towards getting that lewt is fun. It maybe not be your definition of fun but I know some people that really enjoy those 3 hour King camp windows.

[rydiu]

3 hour king camps are great! Time to study and work on things that really matter with a surprise at the end. Not overly concerned about making sure I get loot before everyone else thats on my team (linkshell) but more concerned that everyone on my team is happy and kicking as much ass as I am.

[Healer]

Anyone who can attend ALL should definitely be more rewarded than those who are occupied with work/school/etc.

I disagree!

The "reward" should simply be that they get to be at all events.

If the LS is one where everyone is having fun and likes each other then you should be pleased to congratulate your friends who just got home from work or school and won some great item! If someone in your LS only wants items and doesn't care about anyone else and doesn't make efforts to /befriend anyone then they shouldn't be there anyways...thats what the /breaklinkshell command is for.

People who attend ALL events should actually get LESS items because they're always online and thus have more skill/experience and don't need the tiny stat boosts as much as someone less blessed by excessive /playtime..but thats beside the point -- everyone in the LS should have an equal chance at items! Or else you're not working as a team and people are going to always be whining and bitching...

Not only are you a fucking retard, but you're a fucking retard. You're saying that even though I show up to more shit than my members I should "pass" it for them because they spent less time than I did? God, I hope you're seriously joking...

Rydiu IS a retard. Endgame is work, period. However, it's a fun type of work for most. Otherwise, people wouldn't bother with it. Like Khalil said, it's all about the possible rewards later on for all the time spent. It's when you finally obtain the reward that it all pays off. That feeling you get when you can finally don x item around for y amount of dedication is why we do endgame. Sure, attending said even is still fun (most of the time) and that's the reason for some but for most of us, we like to be rewarded for our time with something tangible.

And yes, it is the OP's fault, although I still believe the OP has owned the LS leader. Both are at fault. The OP is at fault for trying to be a LS leeching douche. The leader is at fault for his rules being so fucking retarded.

Oh yeah, and LS property items = LOL. Get the fuck out of 2005. If you can't trust your members to not sell their Novia/Novios, then kick their asses and find members that don't suck.

QFT

And as far as his game > RL attitude, it's just damn retarded. Trying to get a very small group of highly skilled people together that have the necessary RL circumstances to be online 16+ hrs a day is not realistic and doesn't happen. It's a 2003 n00b endgame shell leader vision that's never going to be. The best thing any serious shell can do is get well skilled, dedicated members who play on all different shifts so more shit can be done throughout the day over all. Serious shells have the members to cover anything that could pop up at any time during the day (and I am NOT suggesting zerg numbers. Ramuh's endgame LS DH has never had zerg numbers but has always been able to cover all hours of the day with what it has). Keeping the amount of people in the shell towards the lower middle is the best.

Good luck getting in!! With that attitude I doubt you'd make the cut....

Woooooosh!

Owned.

BTW, I find that 99% of the time when somebody makes a put-down type comment about somebody else they're really just talking about themself... So sure call me a "fucking retard." My 150+ IQ level reassures me that I'm not a retard, but I have serious doubts about if YOU are in fact retarded (2-3 standard deviations below mean IQ)

No..not this shit again... Not another "lawl my RL INT > you gaiz" lolnaygor endgame dropout....

You fail like everyone else before you.

Threads like these get me thru my day at work with a smile on my face.

Same, except it's when I'm LFG during JP primetime.

I'm sorry, your IQ doesn't mean shit about your ability to evaluate loot systems in a video game, and in that context, you very definitely ARE a retard. Here's your hat:

         /\
        /  \
       /    \
      /      \
     /        \
    /  RETARD  \
   /____________\
__(______________)__

Win. I can't stand it when random people on an open forum try to use their IQ to win an argument (or like Rydiu is doing, divert to something else because they've said something so fucking retarded, while being a hypocrit, they can't face the reality of having already lost).

People who argue over smarts and technical shit on an open video game forum/use their IQ and RL shit as part of the argument are the most pathetic people on the internet (and now I can't wait to see Rydiu's witty response to this, which will no doubt be very similar to lolnaygor's, surely bringing much ridicule onto himself).

[Healer]

I may be missing the point here, but...

yeah, if it wasn't a point system, then yes, his poor attendance should prevent him from getting loot, but it was. him not showing up for events only puts him farther back in line, so i dont see the reason to completely remove him. And don't say it's because people behind him deserve it more. If they can't surpass his piss poor atendance rating they deserve it even less, and if they do deserve it they should have easily passed him in the points line. it just seems stupid to take him off.

He was taken off first and foremost because the leader is a favoring egotistic n00b of a shell leader. However, the real reason he should've been taken off is because he's one of those people who likes to start the wrong type of unjustified dramae within a shell.

Starting drama here vs his former shell leader was okay in the way he did. He was still in the wrong for starting drama in the LS on /ls though.

[Celebrindor]

good lord.

read the OP, first couple, then skipped to the middle of a semantics argument (hallmark of internet penis fights). Fun times.

I'm happily down the list in both my endgame and dynamis shells (most people on pandemonium have multiple shells for endgame events by the way, not a "one stop shop" as is common on other servers I gather) due to committments to real life- whether those be work or my family.

Great example- my sky shell farms sunday mid-day. I'm still either at church or out to a nice lunch with my wife and daughter during farming time. I've probably made 90% of the fight nights, and maybe 10% of the farming days. But I made it clear to the leadership when I applied that this was the case. Before the obligatory "why the hell did you apply" comment- it was the only shell that allowed me to spend my early evenings with family and do fights/events in the late-night EST. They were cool with it, as was I with being down the priority lists simply due to smaller attendance.

Dynamis for me is mid-day saturdays. And I often (30-50% of the time) end up having gigs (I'm a professional musician) or am out of town visiting in-laws/etc over weekends. So I make it when I can.

In sky, I was the second oldest member to receive wyrmal legs so far (5 drops) but was the 4th to receive them due to points. No problem, I knew I'd get them eventually.

In dynamis, I was the 5th RDM to finish relic set, 4th to get my chapeau. I had been in just as long as 2 of those who "beat" me to my chapeau, and the 3rd was in less time than me. But they showed the commitment to come to more events. Again, no biggie- still finished the set in a once-weekly shell.

No problem with the OP in this situation- to be honest I'm surprised that shell that dumped you hasn't had an uprising or mutiny to get rid of the leadership if you've honestly been to 90% of events and got kicked. Shit happens man, and if people can't accept that and you can document such unfairness as clearly as you did, it would appear easy to simply say "screw you man, I'm starting my own LS and gonna pirate half your members". I have no qualms with those who do that to unseat bad leadership. Those who attempt such a manuever due to being whiny bitches typically can't get the membership to do such things- it sounds like you might be able to pull off unseating someone like this, minus the lock-step bad apples that worship the ground he walks on. Then you set the rules, you pick the members, you set the times. To be honest, I'm close to forming my own shell for non-traditional events simply because there are things I wish to do in this game and its very difficult to find a shell that fits my time schedule and isn't full of asshattery.

[rydiu]

People who argue over smarts and technical shit on an open video game forum/use their IQ and RL shit as part of the argument are the most pathetic people on the internet

People who call other people retards and think they're being cute or funny are some of the most pathetic people anywhere. Thats the same thing as calling an African American a nigger to admonish them and thinking you're being cute or clever.

Not quite.

Oh, and another thing I thought of while I was on my way home today, which has to do with this discussion:

Many people - including myself - don't have set hours at our jobs and can log in to ffxi pretty much any time we want unless we have a meeting, doctor's appointment, etc that prevents us. Its totally possible to schedule our playtime to make sure we're always on-line to camp the NM we want an item from or attend events we want stuff from but "have to work" at other times which is true because we do need to put food on the table and pay for our toys.

[Tempyst]

People who argue over smarts and technical shit on an open video game forum/use their IQ and RL shit as part of the argument are the most pathetic people on the internet

People who call other people retards and think they're being cute or funny are some of the most pathetic people anywhere. Thats the same thing as calling an African American a nigger to admonish them and thinking you're being cute or clever.

So according to this analogy, you admit you're retarded?

[rydiu]

So according to this analogy, you admit you're retarded?

That analogy didn't say anything about people being retarded...pathetic was the term.

[Healer]

People who argue over smarts and technical shit on an open video game forum/use their IQ and RL shit as part of the argument are the most pathetic people on the internet

People who call other people retards and think they're being cute or funny are some of the most pathetic people anywhere. Thats the same thing as calling an African American a nigger to admonish them and thinking you're being cute or clever.

Not quite.

People who argue over smarts and technical shit on an open video game forum/use their IQ and RL shit as part of the argument are the most pathetic people on the internet (and now I can't wait to see Rydiu's witty response to this, which will no doubt be very similar to lolnaygor's, surely bringing much ridicule onto himself).

Mission accomplished.

[rydiu]

Mission accomplished.

zomg. not that!11!!1one!!!!

I know!! Let's play pick on the girl with a different opinion than everyone else and instead of thinking about it, lets call her retarded to make ourselves feel better about our insecurities because I sure do feel insecure about myself right now! /cry

[Healer]

Mission accomplished.

zomg. not that!11!!1one!!!!

I know!! Let's play pick on the girl with a different opinion than everyone else and instead of thinking about it, lets call her retarded to make ourselves feel better about our insecurities because I sure do feel insecure about myself right now! /cry

Usually at this point, I always just say k and discontinue to respond, since I've won and no longer need to keep it going.






k