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Thread: Nailing down Haste~     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    TSwiftie
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    Nailing down Haste~

    I've improved on this model of Haste since it was first written. There is more information located here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27845


    I'm pretti sure I've nailed down everything involving Haste last night. So I wanted to post here. I have like 5 notebook pages worth of data, but just gonna post the 'interesting' stuffs. [This post became too long. I bolded+Large sized the important stuff.] {I tried to present this stuff in an easy to read fashion. I failed. I apologize in advance.}

    I started out by assuming Haste works in terms of x/256. I was quick to find out the math doesn't pan out on certian calculations. I changed my system to assume Haste works in terms of x/512, and had about 6hrs of data/calculations where the math all works out.

    The rest of this post assumes x/512 is the correct way to represent haste values.

    All Haste equipment follows a particular pattern:
    1% (Blitz Ring) = 5/512
    2% (Quick Belt/Dusk Feet) = 10/512
    3% (Homam Hands/Feet, Dusk Hands, etc..) = 15/512
    4% (Ace's Helm) = 20/512
    5% (Turban) = 25/512
    6% (Speed Belt) = 30/512

    It seems pretti easy to pick up the pattern. All haste equipment can be added together.
    Example, using Ace's Helm + Dusk feet... (10/512 + 20/512 = 30/512 = 6%.)

    Equipment Haste Cap is 128/512. (25%) [This has been known.]

    Interesting Note: If you have 25% haste in equipment, your Haste is actualli 125/512. This means you need more than 25% haste in equipment to hit the Equipment Cap.

    Interesting Note 2: Rune Chopper is 9% Haste, but doesn't check out to be 45/512. In fact it's 47/512. I checked out a variety of equipment, but this is the only piece which seems to have that unique trait.

    Haste (Spell) is 75/512. (Roughly 14.65% Haste.) [This has been known.]

    Magic Haste + Eq Haste adds together. Example: Haste + Turban + Dusk Hands + Dusk Feet. ( 75/512 + 25/512 + 15/512 + 10/512 = 125/512 = 25% Haste )

    Assuming that a 75 BRD with March + 2 Instrument and capped Wind/Singing skill is capped on March songs. The follow is the haste for each~

    March 1 = 48/512 (9.375%) [This has been known.]
    March 2 = 56/512 (10.9375%) [This has been known.]
    March x2 = 104/512 (20.3125%) [This has been known.]


    Both are have numerators that are multiples of 4. I'm hoping I can try some tests later to see how wind/sing skill and instruments affect the marches and where the cap is.

    The haste cap from Magic/Songs is 224/512. (43.75%) [Known]

    Recast on spells is capped at 256/512 (50%) from Eq + Magic. [Known]


    Fast Cast affects spell recast ontop of the recast cap from Eq/Magic.

    I'm currently unable to determine a fastcast cap. (I have an idea to test it sometime.)

    Homam Legs recast from Fast Cast is: 8/512 (1.5625) [Known]
    Loq Earring recast from Fast Cast is: 5/512 (.977%) [Known]


    Spells have a max recast of 255 seconds.

    With all of this nailed down I went back to my older tests involving Hasso.
    viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20949

    Plugging in more precise values for haste makes everything work out much nicer. It can be deduced (with a small margin of error), that Hasso is 50/512 attack speed increase.

    104/512 (Marches) + 100/512 (20% Eq) + 75/512 (Haste) + 50/512 (Hasso) = 329/512.

    999 * (1 - 329/512) = 357.065 Delay
    My results showed a 355.3 Delay

    Since the above test showed great accuracy (less than 30 milliseconds off), I feel confidant in applying the following rates to Hasso and Desperate Blows.

    Hasso attack speed increase is 50/512~
    Desperate Blows attack speed increase is 25/512, and 25/512 for each additional merit~

  2. #2

    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    This may sound like a dumb question, but I ask anyways.

    If. . .
    Haste (Spell) is 75/512. (Roughly 14.65% Haste.) [This has been known.]
    March 1 = 48/512 (9.375%) [This has been known.]
    March 2 = 56/512 (10.9375%) [This has been known.]
    March x2 = 104/512 (20.3125%) [This has been known.]
    all add up to 179/512 (34.961%)

    where did this . . .
    The haste cap from Magic/Songs is 224/512. (43.75%) [Known]
    come from?

    224/512 - 179/512 = 45/512 (8.79%) unaccounted for.

    I'm just trying to see where the 8.79% is missing, sorry if it's blatantly obvious and I missed it.

  3. #3
    BG's favorite asshole
    I have a fairly serious medical question to ask, if I dont ask it, please ban me.

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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    gj kirschy^^

    lots of good work

  4. #4
    TSwiftie
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    The cap for Spell/Songs(Magic Cap) is easy to see when Soul Voiced marches + Haste Spell are applied. Under normal conditions, the Spell/Song cap doesn't have an affect.

  5. #5

    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirschy
    The rest of this post assumes x/512 is the correct way to represent haste values.

    All Haste equipment follows a particular pattern:
    1% (Blitz Ring) = 5/512
    2% (Quick Belt/Dusk Feet) = 10/512
    3% (Homam Hands/Feet, Dusk Hands, etc..) = 15/512
    4% (Ace's Helm) = 20/512
    5% (Turban) = 25/512
    6% (Speed Belt) = 30/512

    Equipment Haste Cap is 128/512. (25%) [This has been known.]

    Interesting Note: If you have 25% haste in equipment, your Haste is actualli 125/512. This means you need more than 25% haste in equipment to hit the Equipment Cap.

    Haste (Spell) is 75/512. (Roughly 14.65% Haste.) [This has been known.]

    Assuming that a 75 BRD with March + 2 Instrument and capped Wind/Singing skill is capped on March songs. The follow is the haste for each~

    March 1 = 48/512 (9.375%) [This has been known.]
    March 2 = 56/512 (10.9375%) [This has been known.]
    March x2 = 104/512 (20.3125%) [This has been known.]
    Monks should be able to hit 126/512, because Black Belt (12%) should be 61/512. I believe this is the only equipment where it doesn't follow the 5*n rule, basically because no other equipment offers 10%+ haste. You could try checking Shinobi Earring, the result should be 102/512, but that's not really a "common use" item.

    Studio Gobli posted on it's Wiki page what it considers the value of haste for various spells. Haste is 75/512, Refueling is 51/512, Hastega (Garuda) apparently slightly tops Haste, and March with a +2 instrument is 48/512 for March I and varies from 53/512 (?~458 combined skill) to 61/512 (553~? skill) for March II.

  6. #6
    TSwiftie
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    It's nice to see a confirmation on some of that data. I'm kinda interested on Rune Chopper/Black Belt. It seems the higher haste items don't follow the 5n rule as their values would differ too much.

    Should be easy to test Shinobi Earring + Garuda Haste. I'll try some more march tests too. I have a Gjalla friend who can prob help me find the increments/cap.

  7. #7
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Excelent work and marvelous results. This is terribly fascinating and I would love to see anything further you can discover about haste.

  8. #8

    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Just out of curiosity, what methodology did you use to use to get such precision capable of distinguishing between 0.2% increments of haste?

  9. #9

    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    hasso dread spikes

  10. #10
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Did you test Haste belt?

    And what cap does/doesn't it apply to?

  11. #11
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Absolutely wonderful.

    If you could add both SV march as well.

  12. #12
    Relic Horn
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    I'm not the best at math but I tried some calculations with Reraise (longest recast spell I could find for MNK/WHM), and I think I proved that Black Belt is indeed 61/512 instead of 60/512.

    I tried casting Reraise with no Haste items on, and the recast was 60 seconds.

    I put on Black Belt, and cast it again, and then worked out the difference between 60/512 and 61/512. Unfortunately, since the game truncates, both results would end up showing me 52 seconds anyway. (The difference being 52.96875 seconds vs 52.8515625 seconds.)

    I added up some numbers, and using what you said about 5% Haste items (in this particular test, Byakko's Haidate) being 25/512, I came up with the comparison of 50.0390625 seconds with the set of 17% Haste on (with Black Belt at 60/512) vs 49.921875 seconds (with Black Belt at 61/512), resulting in 50 seconds and 49 seconds respectively on the recast timer in game.

    I cast the spell with the two items on and it turned out to be 49 seconds.

    Does that work? <_<

  13. #13

    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizerd
    I'm not the best at math but I tried some calculations with Reraise (longest recast spell I could find for MNK/WHM), and I think I proved that Black Belt is indeed 61/512 instead of 60/512.

    I added up some numbers, and using what you said about 5% Haste items (in this particular test, Byakko's Haidate) being 25/512, I came up with the comparison of 50.0390625 seconds with the set of 17% Haste on (with Black Belt at 60/512) vs 49.921875 seconds (with Black Belt at 61/512), resulting in 50 seconds and 49 seconds respectively on the recast timer in game.
    Yes, if you want to double-check, you could try with Turban+Haidate+Fuma+Swift, and it should come at 50 seconds.

  14. #14
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    excellent work kirschy 8)

  15. #15
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirschy
    Interesting Note 2: Rune Chopper is 9% Haste, but doesn't check out to be 45/512. In fact it's 47/512. I checked out a variety of equipment, but this is the only piece which seems to have that unique trait.
    This is surprising; I would expect it to be 46/512, since 9% of 512 is 46.08. BB should be 61, since 12% of 512 is 61.44.

  16. #16
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirschy
    104/512 (Marches) + 100/512 (20% Eq) + 75/512 (Haste) + 50/512 (Hasso) = 329/512.

    999 * (1 - 329/512) = 357.065 Delay
    My results showed a 355.3 Delay
    a mistake in there is that Hasso should be 51. its assumed that its 10% haste..... this would give you a total of 330/512, and gives you your final delay of 355 (though the decimal is still off... im not sure why)

  17. #17
    TSwiftie
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Haven't had a chance to do more testing. But it does appear that collective haste% above 6% don't conform to the 5n pattern. GAX is prob 46/512, and I tested incorrectly... I'll check that again for sure. BB appears to be 61/512. 10% from Hasso appears to be 51/512 not 50/512 (Which makes the error of margin in the test almost nothing .) When I can verify some of the stuff, I'll edit my post.

  18. #18
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    First off, very nice work. I'm sure everyone appreciates people putting time into this type of stuff.

    I'm most interested in this statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirschy
    Fast Cast affects spell recast ontop of the recast cap from Eq/Magic.
    It's a little hard to tell due to context, but is this saying that fast cast effects recast above the cumulative 50% cap? Or that it simply exceeds the cap for each (gear & magic)? i.e. having 25% haste and wearing loq. earring means you're actually getting more than 25% reduction on your recasts, but you still can't exceed the hard cap of 50%.

    A rdm friend and I went out (me on brd) and did a very short test last night, because I originally read the statement as saying that fast cast could exceed the 50% cap. The rdm subbed whm, wore 12% haste in gear (don't remember exact gear, think dusk hands (3), feet (2), blitz ring (1), and speed belt (6)), hasted himself (~15%), and I sung marches (~20%). He wore af1 hat for enhanced fast cast. As expected, he was able to reach the spell cap (30s recast on reraise) with that set. Then I SV'd and resung marches, thinking that should easily push him past the cap. It didn't tho. It was still capped at 30s recast.

    I would assume from that test that fast cast doesn't exceed the 50% hard cap on recasts then. I'm admittedly not very good at these types of math calculations, so I'm basically just looking to double check my understanding of the original statement and that my findings are correct.

    Edit: Fixed a typo in my numbers.

  19. #19
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    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirschy
    Haven't had a chance to do more testing. But it does appear that collective haste% above 6% don't conform to the 5n pattern. GAX is prob 46/512, and I tested incorrectly... I'll check that again for sure. BB appears to be 61/512. 10% from Hasso appears to be 51/512 not 50/512 (Which makes the error of margin in the test almost nothing .) When I can verify some of the stuff, I'll edit my post.
    Oh hay white plains! I'm from Orange County lol.

  20. #20

    Re: Nailing down Haste~

    one thing you can do to do more research on the gear that doesn't follow the 5*n pattern is look at hecatomb. i ASSUME (stop me if i'm wrong here) that 1%slow+1%haste=0 effect on casting/attack speed, IE they cancel each other out. as such, hecatomb body/legs, with a staggering 12% slow as well as the cap with 9, may yield some new %'s that might be valuable to your investigation if you haven't tried them yet. even more interesting results if you know someone with +1 hecatomb toys.

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