I pushed an old man down some stairs.

[Jicent]

yeah old people blow balls end of story

[aurik]

I think the first problem you would have if he did decide to sue was that you (technically your friend) were doing something wrong. I can totally empathise that sometimes it's not easy to stop someone whilst you're driving, but from a law point of view it's your car, your responsibility.

Nope, legally you're responsible for your car, not for the actions of the people in it, except in very narrow circumstances (and that is only true while driving on public roads because it's one of the concessions you make in order to get a driving permit--you can drunk-drive or underage-drive on private property all you want)

If they get you on anything they could either get you on the fact that throwing something from a car could cause injury or on the whole littering thing. I believe in Santa Barbara they can fine you for littering and I don't know for sure, but here if they see you throwing something from a car it's deemed as littering and you can be fined.

You mean his friend could get a fine for littering, if they saw him throwing something from it. However they didn't, so all his friend has to do is refuse to admit to it (5th amendment), and since the LEO didn't witness it happening they probably won't push the issue.

That definitely doesn't warrant him hitting you, but if no one actually saw him hitting you, he could claim that he was merely following you to report to your dean because 'you' did something wrong.

This is where it becomes he-said-she-said, definitely not strong enough to meet criminal burden of proof (reasonable doubt). The man said he didn't do anything that warranted a self-defense reaction, but his actions prior (chasing, harassing, confronting) suggest otherwise, creating very reasonable doubt.

By the by though it's likely he's going to argue that whatever he did was provoked by your initial wrongdoing of throwing the book out of the window.

If he admits that he followed Mioko to the destination (when all he had to do was take down the license plate and call the police) then he admits that he escalated the situation, leading credence to the self-defense theory.

The second problem I think you'd have is with the whole self defense argument. Sure, he could have been going to his car to get a weapon, he did almost try and run you over (but do you have witnesses?) and he made the first attack by almost knocking you back. However, when you pushed him you said you:

[quote:4f5a8]stood on the stairs above him still, like some type of cliche badass pose, with my fists still clenched out of anger, I called him a piece of shit and told him to get the fuck out of here. I look over to the side, 3 feet away from where he hit the ground and two girls, students, were standing there and saw the whole thing unfold.

There were definitely witnesses to this part, according you what you said. If you do something out of self defense you won't often do something like call the person a piece of shit.... you're doing it to protect yourself. Here it almost sounds like you're provoking him, which might not fly in the self defense plea.[/quote:4f5a8]

Actually I think verbal intimidation is very much in character with a self-defense scenario. If someone tackled you and you shove him off, you'd probably say something of the sort.

[Dustinsp]

Bet the old fart doesn't chase anyone else down for a few days at least.

We should give him a award for keeping our streets safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tristam]

If this old dude has a shred of self-restraint or intelligence, he'll go home and realize he was an incredible moron for raging on a littering violation. My guess is you'll never hear from him again. I think you did what any normal person would have done.

Unless you really hurt him terribly (broken bones, permanent damage), you most likely will forget this every happened He prolly just wants you to feel ill at ease for a while and he'll think he's won.

Good luck with this and I hope you don't lose too much sleep.

[Ddz]

=D> good job mioko

[Melena]

My grandfather died, because someone thought he was walking down the steps too slow and shoved him out of the way..no provocation, just shoved him and he fell, hit his head, and never woke up from his injuries... but thats neither here nor there, fact is, it was very cowardly to push an older man down some stairs, specially since the old man's back was to mioko..which is pretty damn worst than the old man hitting him.

Well, in my book, if you make any sort of physical contact with me such as shoving, punching, kicking, etc.. I don't care if your an old guy, a young guy, a 10 yo catholic school girl, your going to find my size 13 wedged up your ass. This guy went completely out of his way to initiate a fight in the name of justice and karma decided to bitch slap him.

[Ziphor]

Mioko, your a photo person, right?

I loved your story, it was quite entertaining and besically everyone covered the 'he's really at fault, your ok' stuff, so I won't add....

buuuut, this thread needs moar pics! take a pic of the starewell thing he knocked you off and into a sprinkler, im really curious to see the setting.... and where the geezer got pwnt, maybe the gate area you guys played ring-around-the-rosey..... if your bored and want to put some icing on this cake, that is.

[XxSlusherxx]

Put detective Lassiter on the case.

[Talus]

I'm sorry what happened to your grandfather, but that's outside the scope of this situation, like other people have said.

You are lucky you're in SB and not Virginia. Or actually, your friend is lucky. Under Virginia law, throwing something from a vehicle is termed a "missile." There was a case recently that got national coverage, in 2005 a woman on I-95 threw a McDonald's cup full of ice at another car, which under the law is launching a missile, and a felony. It's a possible two year sentence, but at trial the judge gave her probation and she has to stay a certain distance from McDonald's cups filled with ice. Maybe she can approach McDonald's cups if they are sans ice, or just go to Burger King or Wendy's, I'm not sure.

I wouldn't worry too much about the situation. The facts don't matter. What will matter if it comes down to it, is how persuasive your argument or his argument is, whether it settles amicably or it goes to court. In my opinion, he acted out a string of irrational behavior. You have to argue what a reasonable person would do, given that they saw someone toss a book from a car that brought harm to no one.

[aurik]

Under Virginia law, throwing something from a vehicle is termed a "missile." There was a case recently that got national coverage, in 2005 a woman on I-95 threw a McDonald's cup full of ice at another car, which under the law is launching a missile, and a felony. It's a possible two year sentence, but at trial the judge gave her probation and she has to stay a certain distance from McDonald's cups filled with ice. Maybe she can approach McDonald's cups if they are sans ice, or just go to Burger King or Wendy's, I'm not sure.

I'm sure there's some minimum speed you have to be going for it to be termed a "missile", which is why the woman throwing debris at 70mph at someone else driving 70mph (and possibly causing a fatal, multiple-car accident involving bystanders) got in trouble.

Edit: looked it up, interesting story, it actually happened in stopped traffic. That law is pretty lame, and the punishment (2 years minimum) definitely doesn't fit the crime.

[Siniroth]

she has to stay a certain distance from McDonald's cups filled with ice. Maybe she can approach McDonald's cups if they are sans ice, or just go to Burger King or Wendy's, I'm not sure.

I lol'd

[Khelek]

wow lol... You really do sue a lot over there =p In sweden, we punch eachother and that's that. And unless someone ends up at a hospital or is famous, I'd be surprised if there was any sueing or even police involved...

You did the right thing (*'-')b GJ! Next time get him while he's on top of the stairs though.

[Maguspk]

lol@missle predicament, Mioko is going to be come down on with a charge in terrorism and conspiracy to blow up old tourists just for throwing a bible outside of a window.

I really can't believe you get in trouble for other people's actions in your car though. What about cab drivers and shit?

[Plow]

All I can say is that the legal system is so retarded right now that if he sued you and won you could probably sue him for provoking you into doing something that got you sued and make him responsible for paying whatever he sued you for, as well as all your legal fees.

[Axil]

Ive always thought Mio was one of the people I agreed with and felt most connected with on this forum. It is only fitting that I too am having a shitty day; my sister stole my car. So I hope it makes you feel less shitty that youre not the only one getting fucked today!

[Tricen]

Ive always thought Mio was one of the people I agreed with and felt most connected with on this forum. It is only fitting that I too am having a shitty day; my sister stole my car. So I hope it makes you feel less shitty that youre not the only one getting fucked today!

Wait, what?

[archibaldcrane]

this thread needs moar pics! take a pic of the starewell thing he knocked you off and into a sprinkler, im really curious to see the setting.... and where the geezer got pwnt, maybe the gate area you guys played ring-around-the-rosey..... if your bored and want to put some icing on this cake, that is.

Yes, please. Need visuals.

Stop giving this guy legal advice by the way, he's not fucking asking for it.

[Tricen]

BG is like the essence of reverse psychology. Don't ask for something, and you will get it whole heartedly, but if you ask for something innocently, you get anally reemed.

[Tomiko]

Actually I think verbal intimidation is very much in character with a self-defense scenario. If someone tackled you and you shove him off, you'd probably say something of the sort.

I agree with this as it was one of the things I was taught when I was taking martial arts. Vocal intimidation is one of the best ways to avoid a physical confrontation.

At worst I think the only thing that will happen to Mioko and friends is that the friend might get a ticket for littering. The guy might try to make a case out of what happened, but based on Mioko's story, I don't see it happening.

As for knocking him down the stairs, I doubt that was Mioko's intention as it sounds more like a reflex reaction. I know if someone hits me there's a good chance I'll probably strike back without thinking about it. The old man should have just went and told someone on Campus like he said he was. Or even better, took down the plate # and called the police.

Also, lol at the bible being litter.

[miokomioko]

I'm still smiling about being able to say I shoved an old man down some stairs.

I haven't been contacted by anyone besides the campus security dude who just needs a written report from me about what happened. I told him verbally what took place and he's mostly pissed and concerned about the fact that I was followed onto my school's property where the man chased me around the lot, twice came inches from hitting me, trying to box me in twice as well, and then without warning or provoking assaulted me on their property.

At least some form of authority is on my side so far.