A Bad GM decision?

[Deevo]

Ok so my linkshell was at Khimaira and it pops and we get it with 7 people. We start killing albeit slowly (12% in about 30minutes).

All of a sudden 1 by 1 a GM jails 4 of us leaving the rest to die.

He says we were holding Khamaira without damaging it. Never asked us to warp or anything, just sends 4 of us to Mordian and leaves the other 3 to die. We asked to speak to a senior GM while in Mordian and the GM ignored us completely and told 3 of us that he is releasing us and held the 4th and temp banned him.

Finally got in touch with a SGM and he said that 12% in 30 minutes is not a "reasonable" amount of time on Khimaira so it was deemed holding. GMs take into account the monster being fought and what it is being fought with into account when defining a "reasonable" amount of time. And killing Khimaira in 2hours+ with 7 isn't acceptable. The person in our kill team who got banned was banned because he was told by the GM to tell us to disengage but he didn't and i guess ignored the GM.

Of course the GM was called by a rival linkshell I guess who hates that we can actually kill Khimaira with 7 instead of wiping, who knows. I'm not writing this thread to start linkshell bashing but to ask the people here if they agree / disagree with the decision by the GM and to warn people that holding isn't defined as zero damage apparantly.


Edit: After posting this the member was un-tempbanned. I guess after I talked to SGM about the whole situation he revisited it and decided not to temp ban him.

[NiggaFromHarlem]

Shit happens, and that kind of does suck. But to be reasonable, I hate it when I have 18+ for a kill and a small group of people are taking forever to kill something. But, usually I cut them some slack because I'm black.

[Gorgan]

Well obviously you cant kill with 7 since you guys wiped.

[Eaglestrike]

So if you kept up pace you'd have won after 4 hours? Can't say it was that bad of a decision from the GM. You might have been able to buy some time if your one member had not ignored the GM and explained more was on the way or something. But to occupy an HNM for 4ish hours that other people want seems a bit...selfish. I probably wouldn't have called a GM on you guys, since that seems childish, but I wouldn't be happy with watching someone kill that slowly.

[Khamsin]

Shit happens, and that kind of does suck. But to be reasonable, I hate it when I have 18+ for a kill and a small group of people are taking forever to kill something. But, usually I secretly hope they wipe so we can show them how it's done.

Fixed for me.

[Skeetaru]

Yeah you were kind of asking for it, theres plenty of ways to buy time from a GM, but you decided to use none of them.

[Therin]

GMs aren't supposed to be able to make that call if you state simply that "you are waiting for more to arrive."

If you talked to a GM before he sent you to jail, you should have told him that. GMs constantly say that they can't take action with holding monsters if you're waiting for more people to show up. Yes, that GM definitely stepped out of line if he didn't talk to one of your members first.

It's a very easy cop-out. Just say you're waiting for more people and they can't do shit.

[Eiladar]

Of course the GM was called by a rival linkshell I guess who hates that we can actually kill Khimaira with 7 instead of wiping, who knows.

Cept we killed it with 7 in about an hour 5 MONTHS AGO, and have gotten it to 80% with 4 people in about 20 minutes. Next time don't bio it to hell while you have 3 PLDs flashing it to death.

[NiggaFromHarlem]

Does anyone else use like 3 rr on the way to khim? lol

[Khamsin]

GMs aren't supposed to be able to make that call if you state simply that "you are waiting for more to arrive."

If you talked to a GM before he sent you to jail, you should have told him that. GMs constantly say that they can't take action with holding monsters if you're waiting for more people to show up. Yes, that GM definitely stepped out of line if he didn't talk to one of your members first.

It's a very easy cop-out. Just say you're waiting for more people and they can't do shit.

Uh... the "waiting for more people" excuse is exactly why people held HNMs in the first place, and why it was a problem. You're not supposed to hold an HNM with 3-4 people for 30 min until reinforcements get there, and that's what GMs will get you for.

[Croaker]

Holding used to be defined as sleeping a mob with zero damage for 5-12 hours to change its pop time.

It's pretty amazing how things have changed. I wonder if it is possible to do 12% damage to AV in 30 minutes? If not, then that GM just set the precedent that anyone who even attempts AV is going to get banned.

It is sickening that people will wait 3 days for that thing to pop and cant wait an extra hour to see you wipe.

If I were an SGM I would fire the GM and perma ban the miserable fuck who called him on you.

[Yutuyu]

Holding used to be defined as sleeping a mob with zero damage for 5-12 hours to change its pop time.

It's pretty amazing how things have changed. I wonder if it is possible to do 12% damage to AV in 30 minutes? If not, then that GM just set the precedent that anyone who even attempts AV is going to get banned.

It is sickening that people will wait 3 days for that thing to pop and cant wait an extra hour to see you wipe.

If I were an SGM I would fire the GM and perma ban the miserable fuck you called him on you.

Ahhh... thank god for employment interviews. Because if you were a SGM, I'd quit.

[Khamsin]

Holding used to be defined as sleeping a mob with zero damage for 5-12 hours to change its pop time.

Well, there was that, but it was far far more common for people to hold with a small crew until reinforcements arrive, which is what pissed the most people off and earned the most GM calls at the time.

[NiggaFromHarlem]

If I were an SGM I would fire the GM and perma ban the miserable fuck you called him on you.

But.. you're not.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah, people that 6-man Jorm should be jailed too for holding Jorm. They were clearly just holding it to push it's window.

Seriously, if you were actually making a good faith effort to kill Khimaira, and with 7 people that's what you could muster in that timeframe, it sounds like bullshit to me for the GM to do that. Window-pushing is basically a non-factor for Wyrms and ToAU HNMs, because their windows are so hueg, and "waiting for more people to show up" is a valid excuse for at least most GMs. If they couldn't tell you were actually trying to kill it, either you weren't and you're lying on here, or they didn't try to see if you were trying to kill it (or wouldn't know what a good-faith effort looked like because they don't know the game they GM very well).

Lesson (if any is to be gleaned): Don't ignore a GM when he sends you (or your LS-mate) a tell. That's asking for trouble.

Oh, and the GM didn't send you to jail one-by-one "all of a sudden" if he'd sent ignored /ts to one of the members fighting ahead of time.

[Yutuyu]

I'm just waiting until someone in the other LS posts saying that one of their members was mocking him in tells about holding it, and that's why the GM did it. There's always interesting side-stories to these ban/GM posts...

[Septimus]

GMs aren't supposed to be able to make that call if you state simply that "you are waiting for more to arrive."

If you talked to a GM before he sent you to jail, you should have told him that. GMs constantly say that they can't take action with holding monsters if you're waiting for more people to show up. Yes, that GM definitely stepped out of line if he didn't talk to one of your members first.

It's a very easy cop-out. Just say you're waiting for more people and they can't do shit.

Uh... the "waiting for more people" excuse is exactly why people held HNMs in the first place, and why it was a problem. You're not supposed to hold an HNM with 3-4 people for 30 min until reinforcements get there, and that's what GMs will get you for.

Your reinforcements should be there in 30 minutes or less. Much like a Domino's Pizza.

And the only thing that I hate worse than a low-man group taking forever to kill something is when several parties take forever to kill something easy. Like 10 minute NQ Behemoths with 12 or more people.

[ringthree]

What we are missing here is the original conversation with the GM and the player that didn't tell anyone else about the GM call.

Might be more to this than any of us know, though it might not.

[Khamsin]

Yeah, people that 6-man Jorm should be jailed too for holding Jorm.

Because people line up to kill Jorm, right?

[The Blackrose]

Yeah, people that 6-man Jorm should be jailed too for holding Jorm.

Because people line up to kill Jorm, right?

Damn it, somebody beat me...