10th Dimension Explained?

[divisortheory]

I can't think more than 5 dimensions
1.x
2.y
3.z
4.t
5.parallel world

I feel the explanation about dimension higher than 5 is redundant/nonsense

That's exactly what I thought when I watched it, lol.

[Jefe]

The guy mentions string theory at the end, and I think in order for it to work [string theory] there needs to be 11 dimensions lol >_> It is a mind fuk, however, see if you can get your hands on "The Elegant Universe," which goes into detail about the String Theory. It's really interesting stuff.

[Neosutra]

[quote=Max™]

That's all assuming that said other dimensions are Spatial dimensions and not Temporal ones, and assuming that they are unfurled too.

Nevermind the 11th Dimension. >.>

What's the difference between spatial and temporal dimension, they arent really different? Our brain can't really understand anything above 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension, so no matter what level we try to explain, we have to do it with the 4 we have access to.

I don't accept that we can't understand higher dimensional theories, as I'm a firm believer that we exist within a higher dimensional manifold, it's written into our existence.

What was it, the 6th Dimension in that Animation with the various timelines? You could conceive of alternate timelines running alongside our 4th Dimension without being probabilistic fluctuations.

Then there is the idea of curled up dimensions, where the motion through one of these, which isn't unfurled in our 4-Space, get's averaged out by the visible motion through our familiar ones.

We wouldn't notice these because to actually interact directly with them requires one to be on a sub-atomic scale, this is in fact the basis of String Theories vibrations. The idea that Strings are small enough that their vibrations can occur through these folded up dimensions, with or without corresponding motion in our 4-Space. The shape of these folded up dimensions then becomes very important, as the structure these folded up dimensions takes determines the various ways that Strings can Vibrate, and give rise to the elementary particles which we perceive.

If one or more of these curled up dimensions were Temporal, than any motion through said dimension would not necessarily have any duration in our extant Temporal dimension.

String Theory, or M-Theory more accurately, postulates that we have our 4 Visible Dimensions (Up/Down, Left/Right, Depth, Upstream/Downstream), 6 curled up dimensions, often described as a Calabi-Yau shape of some sort, and an 11th Dimension akin to the 10th Dimension from that Animation, the overarching backdrop of all possibilities.[/quote:3d6c6]


I love you.

Sad thing is we wont be able to test the validity of string theory for another 100 years. I really thought about focusing my graduate degree in the subject, because it is one of the really "unknowns" that has potential to answer alot of our questions about time/gravity/space/life. Unfortunately I think its a few decades before its time. I decided to go into other fields of physics when I realized most string theorist are poorer then dirt =/. I like my plasma TV too much /sigh.

What is even more interesting to me is when you start comparing the implications of string theory to space/time and space travel/time travel and our reality. Stars on the other side of the universe a billion light years from us are only a vibration away (so to speak >.>).

[Koga]

^ Right

Much like the video shows..if you want to move 21 billion Lightyears away to another star just 'fold the paper' so the two points meet and then walk over. Then it appears that you traveled 21 Billion Lightyears when you actually didn't it just appears that way to our 3D world.

[Neosutra]

^ Right

Much like the video shows..if you want to move 21 billion Lightyears away to another star just 'fold the paper' so the two points meet and then walk over. Then it appears that you traveled 21 Billion Lightyears when you actually didn't it just appears that way to our 3D world.

Or even 21 billion years in the past!

Anyone wanna go see the birth of the universe?

What I like the most about string theory is it lends some pretty nifty explainations for how our universe could have started (and an infinate set of universes likewise). Although I thought it was humbling enough knowing we were just scraps of biomatter on a peice of dirt orbiting 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999th of the current stars... Then I realized our universe is 1/infinite combinations of cosmic perturbations...

Oh so tiny. Oh so cool.

[Koga]

But the idea and description I just used are only into the 4th dimension.
How does this string of logic go past time? If you go to the 5th dimension what do you accomplish?

[divisortheory]

But the idea and description I just used are only into the 4th dimension.
How does this string of logic go past time? If you go to the 5th dimension what do you accomplish?

Imagine the universe started at a certain point in time. After a certain number of seconds, things are a certain way. In the 5th dimension, you could be at the same point in time but have things be a different way. Just like VZX said above, parallel universe.

Imagine, for example, that right now at this moment I have a choice to Submit or not Submit this message. If I submit it, the universe unfolds a certain way. If I don't submit it, the universe unfolds a different way. Both of those universes are contained in the 5th dimension, as well as an infinite number of other universes.

[Kaylia]

That's all assuming that said other dimensions are Spatial dimensions and not Temporal ones, and assuming that they are unfurled too.

Nevermind the 11th Dimension. >.>

What's the difference between spatial and temporal dimension, they arent really different? Our brain can't really understand anything above 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension, so no matter what level we try to explain, we have to do it with the 4 we have access to.

I can understand the concept of more than three dimensional space. I just get the feeling if I ever figure out how to visualize 4 fourth spatial dimension that my brain would implode.

But the concept of multiple temporal dimensions has intrigued me for years now.

Yeah, meant "vizualize" more than "understand" in my last post.

I can't think more than 5 dimensions
1.x
2.y
3.z
4.t
5.parallel world

I feel the explanation about dimension higher than 5 is redundant/nonsense

5th, 6th, 7th are parallels world with a 5th, 6th or 7th parameters. If you think of 5 dimension, you can easily visualize 7.

For example, 5th dimension could be a line of parallel world where gravitational constant varies, while 6th dimension is a bunch of parallels world where both gravity and light speed varies.

[Koga]

I should read a book on this stuff... Mind-Boggling stuff is fun. LOL

[Neosutra]

But the idea and description I just used are only into the 4th dimension.
How does this string of logic go past time? If you go to the 5th dimension what do you accomplish?

Imagine the universe started at a certain point in time. After a certain number of seconds, things are a certain way. In the 5th dimension, you could be at the same point in time but have things be a different way. Just like VZX said above, parallel universe.

Imagine, for example, that right now at this moment I have a choice to Submit or not Submit this message. If I submit it, the universe unfolds a certain way. If I don't submit it, the universe unfolds a different way. Both of those universes are contained in the 5th dimension, as well as an infinite number of other universes.

Ya, I was more talking about time being non linear in such a system. But the "infinite different dimensions" is also cool. I think its more a "different dimensional path" for each energy state choice of particles, not really for each decision/action of any specific macro-scopic creature. Though I guess there would be an infinite set of universes for each of those decisions as well....

[Osede]

part 1 is well explain. but part 2... it more likely sounds like 6-10th dimension just to make up so that there is 10th dimension, instead of there is a possible way of 10th dimension exist....

err....what i want to try to say

[Neosutra]

part 1 is well explain. but part 2... it more likely sounds like 6-10th dimension just to make up so that there is 10th dimension, instead of there is a possible way of 10th dimension exist....

err....what i want to try to say

10 Dimensions is a simplification of the original 21 dimensional theory. 6-10 actually have to exist in order for the others to exist (mathematically).

[Max™]

A Spatial Dimension is a different manner in which things can unfold, a Temporal Dimension is a different Order in which they can unfold.

The 2 Dimensional Universe would actually be 3 Dimensional, since it would be Length/Width+Time.

A Universe in which Events could unfold without being constrained to one arrow of Time could be thought of as one with multiple Temporal Dimensions.

I.E. This Universe, you drop a cup, it falls down and shatters because you're constrained to flow with/observe time in the Upstream => Downstream direction.

Imagine a Universe in which you can see not just the cup falling down, but also the cup reassembling itself and leaping back up to your hand, this would have two time directions available in the simplest concept, and it would simply be a matter of which direction your motion started through.

It could also have weird overlapping events such as some that are forward by what we see (the cup dropping) and some that are reversed by our order, but normal by the other direction (rain flying up into the air and forming clouds) but naturally they wouldn't be so simple to perceive/understand, and it's hard to say what conciousness would even be like in such a Universe.

If you want to think about movement through extra Spatial Dimensions.

Picture this: You toss a ball left two feet and it winds up two feet to the left, correct?

Now imagine tossing it two feet to the left through that normal dimension, and two feet through a 4th spatial dimension, and it pops out of nowhere seemingly a couple feet above you and then falls to the ground.

Again, simplistic examples, you might actually see the object stretch through the added dimensions as opposed to just moving through them, and that's assuming you were a 3/(4) Dimensional object in this 4/(5) Dimensional Universe anyways.

[Septimus]

But the idea and description I just used are only into the 4th dimension.
How does this string of logic go past time? If you go to the 5th dimension what do you accomplish?

Imagine the universe started at a certain point in time. After a certain number of seconds, things are a certain way. In the 5th dimension, you could be at the same point in time but have things be a different way. Just like VZX said above, parallel universe.

Imagine, for example, that right now at this moment I have a choice to Submit or not Submit this message. If I submit it, the universe unfolds a certain way. If I don't submit it, the universe unfolds a different way. Both of those universes are contained in the 5th dimension, as well as an infinite number of other universes.

My understanding was that the differences between parallel universes is a lot more mundane. I always thought that the only things that would be the decay of radioactive material and (if at all possible) time travel. At least that is the impression that I got from Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment- truly random events cause divergence, and the decay of radioactive isotopes is pretty much the only fully random events of which we know.

[Koga]

One could argue that there is no truely random factor...

Randomness is an objective property. Nevertheless, what appears random to one observer may not appear random to another observer. Consider two observers of a sequence of bits, only one of whom has the cryptographic key needed to turn the sequence of bits into a readable message. The message is not random, but is for one of the observers unpredictable. One of the intriguing aspects of random processes is that it is hard to know whether the process is truly random. The observer can always suspect that there is some "key" that unlocks the message. This is one of the foundations of superstition and is also what is a driving motive, curiosity, for discovery in science and mathematics.

Under the cosmological hypothesis of determinism there is no randomness in the universe, only unpredictability.

Some mathematically defined sequences exhibit some of the same characteristics as random sequences, but because they are generated by a describable mechanism they are called pseudorandom.

Chaotic systems are unpredictable in practice due to their extreme dependence on initial conditions. Whether or not they are unpredictable in terms of computability theory is a subject of current research. At least in some disciplines of computability theory the notion of randomness turns out to be identified with computational unpredictability.

Randomness of a phenomenon is not itself 'random'. It can often be precisely characterized, usually in terms of probability or expected value. For instance quantum mechanics allows a very precise calculation of the half-lives of atoms even though the process of atomic decay is a random one. More simply, though we cannot predict the outcome of a single toss of a fair coin, we can characterize its general behavior by saying that if a large number of tosses are made, roughly half of them will show up "Heads". Ohm's law and the kinetic theory of gases are precise characterizations of macroscopic phenomena which are random on the microscopic level.

[divisortheory]

A Spatial Dimension is a different manner in which things can unfold, a Temporal Dimension is a different Order in which they can unfold.

Mathematically there is a dimension, that's it. Mathematics doesn't know the concepts of space and time, those were created to support physics.

A different order in which they can unfold is no different than a different manner in which they can unfold.

Consider 3 sequences of actions:

A -> B -> C
B -> A -> C
A -> B -> D

All of those sequences just fit into the same 2-dimensional space.

[divisortheory]

My understanding was that the differences between parallel universes is a lot more mundane. I always thought that the only things that would be the decay of radioactive material and (if at all possible) time travel. At least that is the impression that I got from Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment- truly random events cause divergence, and the decay of radioactive isotopes is pretty much the only fully random events of which we know.

I'm just speaking in the sense of parallel universes from the mathematical perspective. So I'm only considering how it might be possible if you consider the universe as an arbitrary n-dimensional space.

Time travel is possible mathematically, and it makes perfect sense. There is an n-dimensional space with an uncountably infinite number of n-1 dimensional universes in it. All of these universes are completely defined from t=0 to t=infinity. Some of those universes are extremely similar to each other (e.g. I submit this message or I don't submit it but everything thing is otherwise the same), but other universes are wildly different (e.g. Alexander the Great was never born, or even more different the big bang happened differently).

Travelling forward in time prunes this uncountably infinite space of universes down to a smaller uncountably infinite space of universes where everything up until the current time has been exactly the same. You can then pick a universe (at random?) from the remaining set of universes (or just stay in your current one and jump forward to t=t', where t'>t_0, t_0 being your current time)

Travelling backward in time from a point t=t_0 simply returns you to t=T in your current universe, where T < t_0. If you were to then go and punch yourself in the face, you would no longer be in your original universe, you would would branch off into one of the other universes that was already in the space of all universes.

[Siniroth]

If you were to then go and punch yourself in the face, you would no longer be in your original universe, you would would branch off into one of the other universes that was already in the space of all universes.

Indeed, one in which you punched yourself in the face

[Korietsu]

I have some required reading for the 10th Dimension. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace_%28book%29

[Max™]

A Spatial Dimension is a different manner in which things can unfold, a Temporal Dimension is a different Order in which they can unfold.

Mathematically there is a dimension, that's it. Mathematics doesn't know the concepts of space and time, those were created to support physics.

A different order in which they can unfold is no different than a different manner in which they can unfold.

Consider 3 sequences of actions:

A -> B -> C
B -> A -> C
A -> B -> D

All of those sequences just fit into the same 2-dimensional space.

In a truly 2 Dimensional space, there is no order, since it would be a static unchanging thing.

A 2 Dimensional space is a slice of a 3 Dimensional space, in which there is change and events can have orders.

A 3 Dimensional space with 2 Space+1 Time Dimension is a slice of a 4 Dimensional Space, where it gets weird is when you postulate added Time Dimensions instead of the extra Spatial Dimension we know and love.

Mathematically it is interchangeable, but in the actual existence of such a thing, there is a difference between a Time and Space dimension and the various translations through and between them.