Version Update 8/27/07

[Kaylia]

The stone tablet/island are screaming instanced fight like ouryu/bahamut. I would be surprised if they are left unused.
Alzadal ruin is still left unused, and have many death end/empty room, kinda like sea before they added jailers. Doesnt mean they will add anything, but I wouldnt be surprised if they drop some pop item there for the "bigger" fight.
Einherjar/salvage is the equivalent of limbus/dynamis imo, I think we will see another type of endgame before next expansion.

ToAUs endgame villans:

Odin: Einherjar

Alexander: Salvage

Not sure where else they would get end game .....

CoP: Absolute virtue (not related to CoP in any way)
Zilart: Kirin (not related to zilart in any way)

ToA can create their own NM or use another backstory for the final endgame. I don't see why it would have to be related with alexander/odin directly.

There is 4 elemental wyrm missing (thunder, wind, water and light) that could easily be popped on the 4 island. And there is hundred of lore/mythology FF could use to create additional endgame content.

If this is infact the case, I fail to see why SE is rushing with WoG if the endgame area of ToAU has to be still released. I mean WoG is announced for december. There is only one update before the release.

Is WoG december? I thought I read 2008

[Kenai]

All done! Pretty fast...can't wait to see what I need to do for my new puppet heads! (please don't suck...)

My advice would be to worry about the BLM head. WHM head seems pretty solid on paper.

I was actually more worried about the suck involved in actually getting them, but yea, lol. WHM effectiveness will prolly be based on the spell recast timer, BLM on spell potency, with both on spell availability and A.I. It really is a toss 8n the air until me/others test them, but I'm kinda used to that by now.

[RKenshin]

Relic GA WAR/SAM is actually like a relic GK SAM/WAR+1 IMO minus a few buffs like Meditate/6 hit setup, but they have their own advantages in greater amounts of haste/acc/att/DA/etc.

Always wondered why there were never any good postings about its damage potential though because of that, aside from the obvious Ridill > all mentallity most people have. But I always thought that it could possibly come close at worst with ideal gear, if not match/surpass it. But good to see it really does have great potential that could possibly surpass using Ridill, especially after this update.

[Naramaska]

I would like to see how a relic g.axe WAR stacks up against a decked ridill WAR post update.

this was pre-patch but
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7374/warmc8.jpg

the one under me is maruniku, armadaberk/ridill/duskgloves+1/speedbelt war
the last guy was a random nin first voking

/SAM? /THF? /DRG?


Curiosity

[RKenshin]

/SAM, he has a counter % implying that Seigan was used. It would appear it was used almost full-time to get a counter % of 5%.

[Naramaska]

/SAM, he has a counter % implying that Seigan was used. It would appear it was used almost full-time to get a counter % of 5%.

Right-o, right-o. Friend of mine is almost finished with Bravura, getting curious about how to best utilize it since we've been bickering back-and-forth for ages now about /SAM vs. /DRG

[Gatsby]

While searching through the .dats, I saw these 2 interesting items.

http://usera.imagecave.com/IdiotBeacon/soultrapper.png

http://usera.imagecave.com/IdiotBeacon/soulplate.png

Sorry for the large pictures but it got me wondering, are we going to have to pokemon our monsters for the pit? I may have missed the discussion in this thread though.

[underscore]

Relic GA WAR/SAM is actually like a relic GK SAM/WAR+1 IMO minus a few buffs like Meditate/6 hit setup, but they have their own advantages in greater amounts of haste/acc/att/DA/etc.

Always wondered why there were never any good postings about its damage potential though because of that, aside from the obvious Ridill > all mentallity most people have. But I always thought that it could possibly come close at worst with ideal gear, if not match/surpass it. But good to see it really does have great potential that could possibly surpass using Ridill, especially after this update.

bravura can get 6hit setup btw, you need +5 store tp outside of rajas/brutal/samsj which leaves you a choice of using askar body or carbonara(i've never done nyzul because of the ~1.5year break so i use carbonara), also that parse was /sam on g.colibri and i used hasso whenever seigan recast is up so i could switch if/when i pulled hate.

[Ryko]

Yes the pit is basically XI pokemon.

[Damane]

If this is infact the case, I fail to see why SE is rushing with WoG if the endgame area of ToAU has to be still released. I mean WoG is announced for december. There is only one update before the release.

Is WoG december? I thought I read 2008

as far as I remember they said December 2007

[baudelaire]

re: soultrapper / soul plates.... 10 gil says you'll need to carry around light crystals to make it work. ugh.

[netz]

Hagun is pretty shitty for DoT. Not relying on it for awesome WS damage would be a huge buff for sam.

Holy crap, someone that agrees with me.

I agree with you guys, too... although we are probably in the vast minority here, lol. I never liked the Hagun's relatively low damage rating compared to the other weapons, even though I've heard it gives great WS damage. (Have people completely given up on DoT being at all significant?) Also, I'm taking an "economic" relic upgrade path (i.e. invest lots of time and some sponsor money in Dynamis instead of massive gil, and hope your lucky on the 100 lots), and the Hagun's current 1 mil price tag would take away two Dynamis half-sponsors... I have to save whatever gil I can get. I've been using Shinsoku until I get relic upgraded to stage 4. I figure I can "skate by" until then.

Am I completely wrong in not getting a Hagun months ago?

Yes, since it was the strongest weapon to use in most regular usage. In the time where it reigned supreme, you could have wielded it to great effect. Nothing came close, except Amanomurakumo, or decked /RNG. I suppose from an economic standpoint you now come out ahead, but you gimped yourself to do it assuming Hagun isn't the godly weapon it used to be (I'm not going to be the one to test by reactivating my account 4 days before the billing cycle...).

By the way, I fail to see how your weaponskill damage doesn't count as damage over time. Lowering one end of your output to severely increase another has been a viable samurai damage strategy since Hagun (low regular swings for remarkable ws output, team with store tp for even more success) and Soboro Sukehiro (poor gkt damage for huge tp generation, mainly for sidewinder) were introduced. Restoring a damage balance is just going to change how you play, for no real benefit... right?

You're not in the wrong at all. Even though I will admit Hagun is great for /THF HNMing, it's pretty shit everywhere else, even moreso for /WAR. Nodachi of Ragnarok "skated by" with Shinsoku as well til he got relic, and out DD'd a bunch of Hagun users along the way.

The sword isn't the only thing that defines the job. I don't think Nodachi skimped on the rest of his gear, but I haven't read up on how he beat them specifically. It's entirely possible that Hagun is the piece of the crap you make it out to be for /WAR, but I don't think it is.

But the buff is for melee damage... Melee damage formulas aren't tied in any way to WS damage, no? Or at best, we have no idea whether or not the changes they make to the melee damage formulas would carry over to WS... So why does everyone keep thinking that a buff in melee damage formulas for 2h weapons would for sure effect WS formulas? Or am I missing something?

I was under the impression the two were related, which is how I immediately drew the conclusion that the 3 primary samurai WS were getting nerfed to rebalance them in light of those changes. It's entirely possible that that's not the case and that you're right, so we'll find out soon. Hey, as long as they effectively stay the same, nobody's going to complain.

[Jer]

This just dawned on me. Playing a mage that is constantly changing staves, do you think we will also have to constantly have to equip our grips as well? This might be a nuisance to our macros, especially considering the limited space available on them. I don't suspect this being a problem with melee jobs though, seeing as how the only time you change your weapon is because of stripga or you wanting the weapon changed to accommodate a new skillchain.

Windower.

They stated (and showed) that grips will be equipped in the off-hand or shield slot. If dual-wielding, if you change out your main weapon for another 1H weapon, your secondary weapon stays equipped, so it would seem likely that the grip will stay equipped as long as you go from 2H => 2H weapon.

I also saw a few posts mentioning how some grips would be nice to swap in for WSs, but SE has already said that changing grips is the same as changing a weapon, you'll lose TP.

[Sagacious Sundi]

The stone tablet/island are screaming instanced fight like ouryu/bahamut. I would be surprised if they are left unused.
Alzadal ruin is still left unused, and have many death end/empty room, kinda like sea before they added jailers. Doesnt mean they will add anything, but I wouldnt be surprised if they drop some pop item there for the "bigger" fight.
Einherjar/salvage is the equivalent of limbus/dynamis imo, I think we will see another type of endgame before next expansion.

ToAUs endgame villans:

Odin: Einherjar

Alexander: Salvage

Not sure where else they would get end game .....

CoP: Absolute virtue (not related to CoP in any way)
Zilart: Kirin (not related to zilart in any way)

ToA can create their own NM or use another backstory for the final endgame. I don't see why it would have to be related with alexander/odin directly.

There is 4 elemental wyrm missing (thunder, wind, water and light) that could easily be popped on the 4 island. And there is hundred of lore/mythology FF could use to create additional endgame content.

If this is infact the case, I fail to see why SE is rushing with WoG if the endgame area of ToAU has to be still released. I mean WoG is announced for december. There is only one update before the release.

Is WoG december? I thought I read 2008

They said Winter 2007, but I'm sure that can easily be delayed into Q1 of 2008.

Regarding the tablet isles, I was always thinking there was going to be an epic battle there story-wise OR, like you said, Ouryu/Bahamut-style fights. I personally think it's possible for Alzadaal to have a spawned non-sequitur NMs (like Shijen/Jailers); it seems that the popped NMs have nothing to do with the plot while the endgame "instances" have some relation.

[Ryko]

You're not in the wrong at all. Even though I will admit Hagun is great for /THF HNMing, it's pretty shit everywhere else, even moreso for /WAR. Nodachi of Ragnarok "skated by" with Shinsoku as well til he got relic, and out DD'd a bunch of Hagun users along the way.

Honestly he did it out of being stubborn, not because the Hagun was "shit", it still pretty much stomps HNMs even /WAR anyway due to the inherent stability of 1 hit weapon skills. He didn't out DD SAMs with his caliber of gear, he outparsed meritmonkeys who didn't put in the same effort he did. Granted Hagun is a pretty lolworthy EXP katana, but it was a staple to any HNM SAM for a reason.

[Yutuyu]

Hagun really is infinitely better than any other weapon out there (but relic). The only time you should ever be using anything else is if you're starting off an event and you pre-med to 300% TP, then you should switch to Hagun. Shinsoku isn't too bad on imps in the mire either (since you spend so long amnesia'd) but in general, Amano > Hagun > everything else. Right now, anyway...

[Xaetica]

Speaking of the /sit nerf. Is there a dat swap one can do to go back to the good ol' days?

[RKenshin]

/SAM, he has a counter % implying that Seigan was used. It would appear it was used almost full-time to get a counter % of 5%.

Right-o, right-o. Friend of mine is almost finished with Bravura, getting curious about how to best utilize it since we've been bickering back-and-forth for ages now about /SAM vs. /DRG

IMO using Hasso full-time, /SAM would win for damage output by a good margin.

Although I'd love to see some crazy Jumps for like 500-1.2k. Imagine a triple proc on two crits in a DA Jump!

[SeraphusRagnarok]

DRACULA?!
http://content.answers.com/main/cont...ula1_small.jpg

BUT ENOUGH TALK! HAVE AT YOU!

[ringthree]

If this is infact the case, I fail to see why SE is rushing with WoG if the endgame area of ToAU has to be still released. I mean WoG is announced for december. There is only one update before the release.

Is WoG december? I thought I read 2008

as far as I remember they said December 2007

Only definitive information has been Winter 2007.