LS Leadership and comprimise

[Denchi]

In your guys' LS, do you tolerate mistakes? If someone starts bitching about loot do you just kick them? We've had quite a few players get bitchy about not being in main ally for Kirin, or losing lot on Merciful Cape to another Blm. Or we'll yell at people for not stunning GA III or various other moves that, when your a RDM/DRK, is one of your only jobs. These are all things that shouldn't be problems, how does your LS deal with them?

[Sev]

In your guys' LS, do you tolerate mistakes? If someone starts bitching about loot do you just kick them? We've had quite a few players get bitchy about not being in main ally for Kirin, or losing lot on Merciful Cape to another Blm. Or we'll yell at people for not stunning GA III or various other moves that, when your a RDM/DRK, is one of your only jobs. These are all things that shouldn't be problems, how does your LS deal with them?

Knowing alot of the people in your ls denchi, I think it would be wise to go on a case by case decision. You have alot of people who to my knowledge will do anything for gear including buying from rmts (not talking about lonn), some people will leave the second they get gear. Others just don't pay attention miss stuns, heals, go afk while main healing. People will bitch about gear because that is what they are doing endgame from.

My suggestion would be warn people first, serious warnings not the "lol dude stop" that happened when I was there. If bitching becomes a huge problem remove them. If they are not playing to a reasonable standard warn then remove as well.

[Septimus]

Or we'll yell at people for not stunning GA III or various other moves that, when your a RDM/DRK, is one of your only jobs.

As someone who has gone to a lot of things as RDM/DRK, stunning is generally never your only job when you have a group of other mages who are going to grumble about not having refresh...

[Yutuyu]

There are some things which are just retarded and you simply don't do. You know what they are, and that's not what we're talking about here, but the more vague/stupid mistakes.

About this, I think that before you kick anyone you should express distaste in their behavior, not aggressively, but just let them know you don't appreciate it. If they continue in their behavior, then boot them.

But unless they purposely do something malicious or stupid, it's best to reinforce things gently (unless they don't get the picture even then).

[yuriku]

In your guys' LS, do you tolerate mistakes? If someone starts bitching about loot do you just kick them? We've had quite a few players get bitchy about not being in main ally for Kirin, or losing lot on Merciful Cape to another Blm. Or we'll yell at people for not stunning GA III or various other moves that, when your a RDM/DRK, is one of your only jobs. These are all things that shouldn't be problems, how does your LS deal with them?

Anyone who misses stun esp on GoH should be immediatly kicked and their named slandered on every forum known to man.

But seriously.... Shit happends, get over it. Your NM will pop again.

[Wintermute]

Or we'll yell at people for not stunning GA III or various other moves that, when your a RDM/DRK, is one of your only jobs.

As someone who has gone to a lot of things as RDM/DRK, stunning is generally never your only job when you have a group of other mages who are going to grumble about not having refresh...

Lets not forget the Haste cycle (if the WHM aren't doing it), usual Enfeebling spells, MP-Sponge DDs and the "Phalanx me!" Paladins.

I've missed out on a few key stuns (Bahamut v1, Gods, HNM) due to being mid-refresh/haste/enfeeble. Lag doesn't help either.

[Ryko]

Case by case, I tend to be a lot harsher on hissy fits but the degree of which is typically determined by how useful and accommodating the player is otherwise. People in the LS are free to argue about shit as long as it doesn't get longwinded and super personal (the boards are for that) so if someone crosses a line someone will say it.

[cassiraa]

Mistakes are one thing, Not learning from them are another. If someone can't learn, and makes the same mistake over and over, you have to draw a line and say 'you can't learn.' eventually. Likewise with getting people angry at you, If I, as a shell leader, get messages on a daily basis saying how you're being annoying / making tasteless jokes / people don't like you. Then you're on thin ice. In recent news: Both of the above and then deleveling your main job to uselessness when that's the most useful job you bring to the LS; that's a pretty good reason.

btw, It's easy for a -ga3 spell to be started casting when you're in the middle of casting refresh, stuff happens, bring more than 1 stunner. but if you have a solid lot order, anybody who bitches simply didn't read your website.

[Kaylia]

Or we'll yell at people for not stunning GA III or various other moves that, when your a RDM/DRK, is one of your only jobs.

As someone who has gone to a lot of things as RDM/DRK, stunning is generally never your only job when you have a group of other mages who are going to grumble about not having refresh...

Yeah. Certain job are much harder than other, and stunning (especially in a laggy context) is never easy. If you want to yell at people, make sure you know you could do better, because it's not as obvious as it looks.

As for people bitching for loot, it always happened and will always happen. Need to prevent completly unfair situation with rule, but that's about it. Loot in FF is as rare as food is in africa, and people will end up fighting for it.

[Judai]

Missing a stun happens, you need to be able to deal with it. Stunning isn't the easiest thing ever and people need to realize it. I rarely miss but when I do, nobody yells at me, we just move on and deal, whether it's missing a Fulmanation, GoH or Tiamat Firaga 3. If the person was simply afk and didn't say, deal with it fast, if it was just because of lag or trying to do other things, let it go. You need to realize the difference between problems and mistakes. AFK and not paying attention you deal with, mistakes/lag you let go. If someone keeps fcking up, don't let them in Ally until they prove themselves again.

If someone is bitching about loot, warn them and then kick them if it continues. Unless they have some valid claim, more often then not they are just being a whore, no reason to keep them. If your people just can't realize when they are needed and when they aren't, they aren't worth the effort and strife they usually cause.

Mistakes happen, just have to find out if it was a true mistake or someone not caring/paying attention.

[Imaulle]

It depends on how often these mistakes happen. If it's rare or accidental, then it shouldn't be a big deal. But if they continually fuck up, I'd boot them. You just have to watch and see the mistake for yourself, because members in your shell may be biased towards the person fucking up. All loot decisions that I make are based on how the gear will be best utilized in the shell. If anyone disagrees I tell them to shut the fuck up, and they usually do. If they continue to bitch they get kicked.

[Denchi]

It depends on how often these mistakes happen. If it's rare, then it shouldn't be a big deal. But if they continually fuck up, I'd boot them. You just have to watch and see the mistake for yourself, because members in your shell may be biased towards the person fucking up. All loot decisions that I make are based on how the gear will be best utilized in the shell. If anyone disagrees I tell them to shut the fuck up, and they usually do. If they continue to bitch they get kicked.

That's how we work too.... and really, the gear has always gone to the players that will help the shell out the best.

But it doesn't help us if we lose the gear. There might be plenty of people in your LS Imaulle that are using our gear, maybe not. I really should make a list of all the gear we've lost, it's probbaly like 5 Crimson Cuisses,8 Haidates, 4 Osodes, 1 Merciful Cape, 5 Zenith Mitts, Fort Torque, some shit like that. We really don't want to give gear to only a few people... but so far there are only like 6 of us who aren't whiny bitches all the time. So I'm more inclined to let them have gear. thing is we're getting spread really thin, but I honestly don't think the people we've had leave are worth our time. We've had a few people leave because they don't think a member of our LS (Hath, Hathfuri, for any of you who know him) should get an Aegis. Hath (Who is one of our main tanks, 75Pld, Nin) is on almost 24/7, has a steady irl job, is probably the best player in our shell, and sponsers all of our dynamis raids so we get free AF, rich with gil and will actually finish an Aegis, and people are whining because they wanna lot singles. It's.... painful sometimes.

I'm starting to think all the good players have been taken into other LS's already. My LS has a great core of players, but the rest are really questionable.....

[Imaulle]

You're from Aftershock right? I'm not sure we have any of your members lol. We have the same problem though. We just lost a dalm this month and another dalm went MIA last month. It hurts but not much that can be done. You just have to keep the events going, keep people interested in the shell, try to stay as neutral as possible in public ls drama etc etc. It takes work and it can cause a lot of stress

[Judai]

Gear walks, it sucks, get used to it. This happens more when you shout for players, no offense.

[Denchi]

I never shouted!! And we haven't done that in a while. The players we've gotten lately have almost all been good references, or just people that randomly apply.

Yeah, I guess we'll have to deal.

[Grey Jorildyn]

On the lotting thing, my LS (Karasu) uses a point system, so there are never any gripes there. As for missing stuns and things like that, I never get upset unless the player who was up on stun was just doing something retarded (ie. casting Freeze II). In the end it all just turns out to be a big joke anyway. I try to keep an open-mind and forget mistakes easily, and just talk to the player afterwards to settle things out.

As a leader I think taking care of the members is of the utmost importance. It is to me anyway. These are the people that help each other get stuff and the last thing you need is them all at each other's throats over a game.

[Diametric]

Like another poster has said, mistakes happen. It's when people refuse to learn from their mistakes that you start to have problems. If someone specific makes a mistake, it's generally best to bring it up with them in a polite but firm manner, letting them know what went wrong and, if possible, what they can do in the future to keep from making the same mistake again. If they missed a stun because they were refreshing someone, let them know that it's okay to let a mage go without refresh when it's their turn to stun. Ditto with haste. Waiting on your stun timer should give you enough time to get the stuff done that needs to be done. Sometimes people won't learn even after two or three mistakes, and in that case it might be time to start considering docking points or even, if the mistakes are severe enough, booting them from the shell.

As for whining about items, everyone does it at one point or another. The difference is where and when you do it. In the middle of a HNM fight isn't the time or the place to be hashing out who gets what. It's a distraction that people don't need to be dealing with. Point them towards the proper place to discuss things like that, whether it's privately with a sackholder or on your linkshell's forums. If they still refuse to stop... Well, that's up to you then.

[Septimus]

We've had a few people leave because they don't think a member of our LS (Hath, Hathfuri, for any of you who know him) should get an Aegis. Hath (Who is one of our main tanks, 75Pld, Nin) is on almost 24/7, has a steady irl job, is probably the best player in our shell, and sponsers all of our dynamis raids so we get free AF, rich with gil and will actually finish an Aegis, and people are whining because they wanna lot singles. It's.... painful sometimes.

Since he is sponsoring the runs himself, do this. Tell the whiners that once he is done with his Aegis that someone can lot all of the singles AND hundreds that drop as long as he/she sponsors all of the runs for 6 months. Once they do the math (1,000,000 gil a run x 2 runs as week x 26 weeks = 52,000,000 gil) they will shut their mouths.

[Sylphet]

Mistakes happen, I don't believe in yelling at people because of it but it should be pointed out to them so that they can improve. If they don't improve then they usually get delegated a different job that's harder to mess up. Unless they consistantly screw things up we usually just find a place for them.

Bitching about gear happens as well however this can be more annoying. Everyone can get dissapointed with a gear call or lotting result but it's how you deal with it. In my opinion, complaining about it publicly (i.e. in linkshell or party chat) is NOT acceptable. 99% of the time the linkshell leadership knows better than the members who deserves to lot something. If a member questions a gear call, it should be brought up to leadership in tells, not publicly where it can serve to incite drama/undermine leadership. It also helps if members make it known to leadership what gear they want. Our linkshell has a wiki where members make a wishlist so that leaders know who wants what, so if people maintain their wiki properly, leadership knows what their gear priorities are.

I've found that honesty with members actually works well. Keep attendance records so that if there's a question you can always go back and say:
"Player X got to lot this over you because you have 50% attendance and they have 75% attendance" etc. There's no such thing as a foolproof method for lotting/gear distribution but having fair and impartial leadership is usually the best way to quell people's complaints. If someone consistantly thinks they deseve everything then keep an eye out for them, it's a bad sign.

My linkshell has a long recruitment process in which we try to filter out people who either can't do their jobs or would be overly selfish etc. It's not foolproof but I do think it helps.

[Daahan]

http://bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic...+on+Linkshells