PUP and BST Changes / New automation headpieces

[miokomioko]

The only thing weird about how merited automaton skill works is the fact that when you merit some, the cap gets raised, your automaton will learn the apropriate spells right away from whatever skill you gave it. However, it will "skill up" into that new cap as if the merits simply raised the cap. If you hav full magic merits, you will eventually skill up all the way to 279. It won't make a difference in its performance once you hit 269, but you will still get skillup messages until you reach the new cap after said merits.

It won't be capped when I hit 269. WHen I merrited it the first time, before the update, it said my merits were capped, but I still got skillups until the skillup text finlly hit 250, then they stopped. I think what has happened is, at 279, it'll say 279/279, but my skill will only be 269, I'll have to keep skilling it up in the dark until the skillup text reads 279, just like when you merit it. It LOOKS capped, but it secretly isn't.

It is capped, but you get skillups as if it wasn't. Your automaton will learn spells according to its magic skill level after the merits, not the "actual" level that it's skilling up into.

Hmm so, even if it's 269/279 (Shown as 279/279) it'll still be the performace I'll get at 279/279? Interesting. Good job mindfucking me SE, if only I wasn't obsessed with keeping stuff capped.

Yeah, when I first put merits into my Automaton's magic skill, I put 3 in at once. It immediately learned Aero III and I tested that damage as is. I went out and "skilled" her up to her new cap and re-tested and there was no change at all. It made me curious about the idea of putting merits in, "skilling" it up to the new cap, then removing the merits. I was wondering if her magic skill would remain higher than cap because she earned it by skilling up manually into it. I doubt it would work but the point is, I saw 0 change in damage between learning Aero III via merits and skilling up manually to the level that she would learn Aero III.

[Khamsin]

Despite having had PUP at 75 for quite some time now, I still haven't meritted it. Is magic skill still worth meritting now that you don't need to merit it to gain Aero III? Should I stick to Melee/Ranged?

[pchan]

Despite having had PUP at 75 for quite some time now, I still haven't meritted it. Is magic skill still worth meritting now that you don't need to merit it to gain Aero III? Should I stick to Melee/Ranged?

I personnaly maxed melee and range frame because they were the best DD. Well now ... we'll see tomorrow but i got the feeling that if you get thunder 4 on BLM puppet, doing 2k dmg thunder4 can be ugly. According to the galka, the BLM head will mimic a BLM. I wouldn't be surprised that you get thunder4 if you merit enaugh skill to reach 276.

[Jkun]

Despite having had PUP at 75 for quite some time now, I still haven't meritted it. Is magic skill still worth meritting now that you don't need to merit it to gain Aero III? Should I stick to Melee/Ranged?

I personnaly maxed melee and range frame because they were the best DD. Well now ... we'll see tomorrow but i got the feeling that if you get thunder 4 on BLM puppet, doing 2k dmg thunder4 can be ugly. According to the galka, the BLM head will mimic a BLM. I wouldn't be surprised that you get thunder4 if you merit enaugh skill to reach 276.

My LS does a lot of Sea nad are BLM heavy, so when I'm not krakening on DRK I come PUP and Aero 3 things. Now I'm hoping to do a lot more damage with these heads. After completing Teir2, I did 5 into Melee for solo/tank reasons and it's my favourite frame, and 5 into Magic for a new spell, and to help the LS out aswell as get higher cure numbers.

When I found out mage heads were being released I was overjoyed. Maybe you unlock Thunder IV with full merits but only say, Blizzard IV without? We'll know soon enough.

[solsovly]

It's also funny to think that BST Scythe skill will essentially surpass BST axe skill, so as a mithra with about 104 DEX in my TP set, that's an additional 52 accuracy that we wouldn't have had before o.o People are jesting about BST/SAM Scythe setup, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did pretty good honestly since you can probably even eat meat with Scythe on BST now. The only real shortcoming is that Spiral Hell sucks when it isn't stacked, but maybe the other factors would make up for this. I want to try it.

I will cry, but I'm not going to doubt that Scythe could be better than Axe lol...

Well its essentially A- axe versus B- Scythe. With the new 2h updates, you probably have more natural accuracy and attack with a scythe (lol). Your scythe choice is a bit more limited than a DRK though, Perdu Scythe being the best. Unfortunately BST doesnt have access to either Guillotine or Crossreaper, only Spiral Hell. I will really be sad of Perdu Scythe > Maneater/Temperance

[suji]

It's also funny to think that BST Scythe skill will essentially surpass BST axe skill, so as a mithra with about 104 DEX in my TP set, that's an additional 52 accuracy that we wouldn't have had before o.o People are jesting about BST/SAM Scythe setup, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did pretty good honestly since you can probably even eat meat with Scythe on BST now. The only real shortcoming is that Spiral Hell sucks when it isn't stacked, but maybe the other factors would make up for this. I want to try it.

I will cry, but I'm not going to doubt that Scythe could be better than Axe lol...

Well its essentially A- axe versus B- Scythe. With the new 2h updates, you probably have more natural accuracy and attack with a scythe (lol). Your scythe choice is a bit more limited than a DRK though, Perdu Scythe being the best. Unfortunately BST doesnt have access to either Guillotine or Crossreaper, only Spiral Hell. I will really be sad of Perdu Scythe > Maneater/Temperance

I won't be sad because BST/NIN is pretty damn boring honestly. At least with /SAM, we will have a lot more buttons to hit and maybe not fall asleep!

[epigram]

At least a relic bst can do darkness if he duo's...

[Khamsin]

Despite having had PUP at 75 for quite some time now, I still haven't meritted it. Is magic skill still worth meritting now that you don't need to merit it to gain Aero III? Should I stick to Melee/Ranged?

I personnaly maxed melee and range frame because they were the best DD. Well now ... we'll see tomorrow but i got the feeling that if you get thunder 4 on BLM puppet, doing 2k dmg thunder4 can be ugly. According to the galka, the BLM head will mimic a BLM. I wouldn't be surprised that you get thunder4 if you merit enaugh skill to reach 276.

Well, come to think of it, since automatons now cast every 3 seconds, it might be a good idea to max magic afterall since a Thunder IV > Blizzard IV > Burst > Freeze > etc. every 3 seconds would outdamage any melee or ranged damage the other frames could do.

[Jkun]

Despite having had PUP at 75 for quite some time now, I still haven't meritted it. Is magic skill still worth meritting now that you don't need to merit it to gain Aero III? Should I stick to Melee/Ranged?

I personnaly maxed melee and range frame because they were the best DD. Well now ... we'll see tomorrow but i got the feeling that if you get thunder 4 on BLM puppet, doing 2k dmg thunder4 can be ugly. According to the galka, the BLM head will mimic a BLM. I wouldn't be surprised that you get thunder4 if you merit enaugh skill to reach 276.

Well, come to think of it, since automatons now cast every 3 seconds, it might be a good idea to max magic afterall since a Thunder IV > Blizzard IV > Burst > Freeze > etc. every 3 seconds would outdamage any melee or ranged damage the other frames could do.

Wrong. Only Harle Head and Storm Body do that, and they don't nuke. They either cure, or enfeeble very quickly. Full SW was in exp today with me and he nuked higher damage spells, but with the same pre-patch delay.

[Meian]

not to mention your Automaton or you (Ventrilquy) would get killed quick

[miokomioko]

Automaton emnity seems to have been increased quite a bit, I fear for all those Sharpshots using Daze on Colibri out there. Also, I'm fearing that Automaton cure spells might now create some hate. I was out meleeing Colibri so I could take some damage and use Role Reversal to force Cure IVs so she could skill up. (Cure priority with light maneuvers/damage gauge was increased dramatically as well) Even with provoke, I could barely keep hate off of her. Something is up. Not to mention she never once hit the Colibri or casted on it, just Cure IV'd me and ended up drawing hate after I took a number of hits.

Also, Stormwaker will now nuke with the lowest tier nuke possible to kill a mob if they are close to death. Mine refuses to cast anything other than Blizzard I on Bumblebees instead of always using its highest nuke possible. I noticed her also using tier II nukes to finish a colibri off that was at about 2% hp. So much for testing Thunder III with Loudspeaker I + Loudspeaker II + Mana Channeler + Ice Maker + Optical Fiber + Thundersday + 3 Ice Maneuvers on lv.0 mobs...

e.g: these are all one-shots

Two Cardian: Thunder/Blizzard I
Three Cardian: Fire/Water II
Four Cardian: Aero/Thunder II
Five Cardian: Aero/Blizzard III
Six Cardian: Thunder III

It's like the game precalculates what nuke will kill the mob dead. The lower level spells used on the same mob were usually from me using some Ice Maneuvers along side Ice Maker. As if it knew it could use a lower level nuke with the added MAB from the maneuvers...

Side note::: ice maker does not activate and eat your maneuvers if your automaton's nuke is blinked. Nice.

[Keftenk]

At least a relic bst can do darkness if he duo's...

Now I regret having Guttler...
I had a few doubts when I actually got it, but thats np...but now...
Just eye balling gear and STR=ATK, I can get 450+ base Attack on BST with Scythe <_>
Just the shitty WS's become the problem...time to finish scythe skill to test this out ;\

[pchan]

Automaton emnity seems to have been increased quite a bit, I fear for all those Sharpshots using Daze on Colibri out there. Also, I'm fearing that Automaton cure spells might now create some hate. I was out meleeing Colibri so I could take some damage and use Role Reversal to force Cure IVs so she could skill up. (Cure priority with light maneuvers/damage gauge was increased dramatically as well) Even with provoke, I could barely keep hate off of her. Something is up. Not to mention she never once hit the Colibri or casted on it, just Cure IV'd me and ended up drawing hate after I took a number of hits.

Also, Stormwaker will now nuke with the lowest tier nuke possible to kill a mob if they are close to death. Mine refuses to cast anything other than Blizzard I on Bumblebees instead of always using its highest nuke possible. I noticed her also using tier II nukes to finish a colibri off that was at about 2% hp. So much for testing Thunder III with Loudspeaker I + Loudspeaker II + Mana Channeler + Ice Maker + Optical Fiber + Thundersday + 3 Ice Maneuvers on lv.0 mobs...

I used Sw with harlesquin and didnt notice hate generation from cure 4/3 -.-. Maybe you used the enmity attachement which is broken ? (or was). Hoever blind slow etc still generate hate (little). Even the full sw combo didnt generate hate in cures.

This thing about lowest nuke near to death already existed before.

[Jkun]

Automaton emnity seems to have been increased quite a bit, I fear for all those Sharpshots using Daze on Colibri out there. Also, I'm fearing that Automaton cure spells might now create some hate. I was out meleeing Colibri so I could take some damage and use Role Reversal to force Cure IVs so she could skill up. (Cure priority with light maneuvers/damage gauge was increased dramatically as well) Even with provoke, I could barely keep hate off of her. Something is up. Not to mention she never once hit the Colibri or casted on it, just Cure IV'd me and ended up drawing hate after I took a number of hits.

Also, Stormwaker will now nuke with the lowest tier nuke possible to kill a mob if they are close to death. Mine refuses to cast anything other than Blizzard I on Bumblebees instead of always using its highest nuke possible. I noticed her also using tier II nukes to finish a colibri off that was at about 2% hp. So much for testing Thunder III with Loudspeaker I + Loudspeaker II + Mana Channeler + Ice Maker + Optical Fiber + Thundersday + 3 Ice Maneuvers on lv.0 mobs...

I used Sw with harlesquin and didnt notice hate generation from cure 4/3 -.-. Maybe you used the enmity attachement which is broken ? (or was). Hoever blind slow etc still generate hate (little). Even the full sw combo didnt generate hate in cures.

This thing about lowest nuke near to death already existed before.

No it didn't, in sea E100 would always finish with Aero 3 near death. Always.

[miokomioko]

Automaton emnity seems to have been increased quite a bit, I fear for all those Sharpshots using Daze on Colibri out there. Also, I'm fearing that Automaton cure spells might now create some hate. I was out meleeing Colibri so I could take some damage and use Role Reversal to force Cure IVs so she could skill up. (Cure priority with light maneuvers/damage gauge was increased dramatically as well) Even with provoke, I could barely keep hate off of her. Something is up. Not to mention she never once hit the Colibri or casted on it, just Cure IV'd me and ended up drawing hate after I took a number of hits.

Also, Stormwaker will now nuke with the lowest tier nuke possible to kill a mob if they are close to death. Mine refuses to cast anything other than Blizzard I on Bumblebees instead of always using its highest nuke possible. I noticed her also using tier II nukes to finish a colibri off that was at about 2% hp. So much for testing Thunder III with Loudspeaker I + Loudspeaker II + Mana Channeler + Ice Maker + Optical Fiber + Thundersday + 3 Ice Maneuvers on lv.0 mobs...

I used Sw with harlesquin and didnt notice hate generation from cure 4/3 -.-. Maybe you used the enmity attachement which is broken ? (or was). Hoever blind slow etc still generate hate (little). Even the full sw combo didnt generate hate in cures.

This thing about lowest nuke near to death already existed before.

a) I was not using any attachment that generated hate. I only had magic recast, MP, and cure priority attachments on. I provoked a colibri, deployed, continued to get cured, got hit by the colibri a bunch and I lost hate. That's something new and odd.

b) No, the lowest nuke near to death didn't exist before because I used to sit there and Aero III Bumblebees all day long to test MAB attachment calculations, not to mention I've finished off many a mob with Aero III because it would always cast the highest level nuke that its MP could afford, nothing less unless Scanner was forcing it to use something like Stone III.

[pchan]

Automaton emnity seems to have been increased quite a bit, I fear for all those Sharpshots using Daze on Colibri out there. Also, I'm fearing that Automaton cure spells might now create some hate. I was out meleeing Colibri so I could take some damage and use Role Reversal to force Cure IVs so she could skill up. (Cure priority with light maneuvers/damage gauge was increased dramatically as well) Even with provoke, I could barely keep hate off of her. Something is up. Not to mention she never once hit the Colibri or casted on it, just Cure IV'd me and ended up drawing hate after I took a number of hits.

Also, Stormwaker will now nuke with the lowest tier nuke possible to kill a mob if they are close to death. Mine refuses to cast anything other than Blizzard I on Bumblebees instead of always using its highest nuke possible. I noticed her also using tier II nukes to finish a colibri off that was at about 2% hp. So much for testing Thunder III with Loudspeaker I + Loudspeaker II + Mana Channeler + Ice Maker + Optical Fiber + Thundersday + 3 Ice Maneuvers on lv.0 mobs...

I used Sw with harlesquin and didnt notice hate generation from cure 4/3 -.-. Maybe you used the enmity attachement which is broken ? (or was). Hoever blind slow etc still generate hate (little). Even the full sw combo didnt generate hate in cures.

This thing about lowest nuke near to death already existed before.

a) I was not using any attachment that generated hate. I only had magic recast, MP, and cure priority attachments on. I provoked a colibri, deployed, continued to get cured, got hit by the colibri a bunch and I lost hate. That's something new and odd.

b) No, the lowest nuke near to death didn't exist before because I used to sit there and Aero III Bumblebees all day long to test MAB attachment calculations, not to mention I've finished off many a mob with Aero III because it would always cast the highest level nuke that its MP could afford, nothing less unless Scanner was forcing it to use something like Stone III.

bumble bees are what .. Level -1 ? so you actually start with aero3 and not finish.

[Bagel]

Obviously it counts as "finishing" not "starting" if now it starts with Blizzard I.

[doofy]

Had a few hours to finally mess around on a few more difficult mobs, and I'll be damned they more or less finished this job. Barring the support cast timers being a "glitch" (I don't think they are, especially when it can start curing PT members) this really is a solo job now right up there with BST, but with the versatility to do any damage type and potentially be a legitimate backup healer and nuker. If the WHM head allows prot/shell/haste/etc.....holy hell. My THF/NIN used to solo stuff several levels higher than my PUP, now its not even close.

Aside from the stat and hp/mp reductions, which are trivial compared to what was gained, is anyone else noticing that you have to be completely retarded to overload now? Even after zoning you have to spam 3-4 maneuvers to do it. Its also rather moot at this point, but the enm60 is a complete farce now.

-Vyzrael (Kujata?)

[Khamsin]

I hope the Soulsoother head will allow it to cast every 3 seconds like Harlewaker. Or at the very least, quick-response curing rather than 20 seconds after the last spell.

[Bagel]

I'm a bit disappointed that using full SW you can't pop an earth maneuver, have him chain enfeeble like harlewaker and then pop and ice maneuver and nuke at normal speed. Cures also seem to be on the standard timer, unlike valor/harle head. Will the red head be obsolete once we get white and black?