The Rest of Us [Dual Wield to 2h comparisons]

[evilbau]

It seems pretty apparent that RNG is the new DRG; even completely undoing all RNG nerfs ever would barely make a dent in this. But whatever, I'm not going to cry too hard about it. DRG and DRK had the first spotlight during penta/guillospam days, RNG had its time in the spotlight next, MNK and NIN had their time in the spotlight after that, now it's SAM's turn (and they're taking DRK & DRG along for the ride).

The only things that stand out to me as overtly political slaps-in-the-face are the Yuki/Gekko/Kasha fTP buff and the Empyreal/Detonator nerf. There seems to be no justification whatsoever for either of those actions.

On a side note: if people are maxing out kill speed on colibri, why not go to trolls/qutrubs/whatever and start clearing zones? 2h numbers on qutrubs should be sufficiently entertaining.

You are going too far, RNG is still ranged attack king and while it may not be buffed from this update, its still really useful. And they still tout burst dmg (the death combo haha) for zerging or simply max dmg output, so they aren't quite 'the new DRG'

[NynJa]

RNG is still ranged attack king

Holy shit you dont say ?!?!
Wow, I guess MNK is still the kicking king, and thieves are still treasure hunter kings ?

[kuronosan]

This just in: Ninjas can tank.

[evilbau]

RNG is still ranged attack king

Holy shit you dont say ?!?!
Wow, I guess MNK is still the kicking king, and thieves are still treasure hunter kings ?

great job pointing out my point, as obvious as it is, since the person i was quoting didn't get it.

edit: My point is that RNGs' role has not changed one bit. You can save your sarcastic remarks for people that run their mouth and don't make a point. In the real world people back up their statements with facts ('rng is ranged attack king') instead of their own skewed opinions (sound familiar?).

[Zilong]

It seems pretty apparent that RNG is the new DRG; even completely undoing all RNG nerfs ever would barely make a dent in this. But whatever, I'm not going to cry too hard about it. DRG and DRK had the first spotlight during penta/guillospam days, RNG had its time in the spotlight next, MNK and NIN had their time in the spotlight after that, now it's SAM's turn (and they're taking DRK & DRG along for the ride).

The only things that stand out to me as overtly political slaps-in-the-face are the Yuki/Gekko/Kasha fTP buff and the Empyreal/Detonator nerf. There seems to be no justification whatsoever for either of those actions.

On a side note: if people are maxing out kill speed on colibri, why not go to trolls/qutrubs/whatever and start clearing zones? 2h numbers on qutrubs should be sufficiently entertaining.

Because qutrubs gives like 75% the exp/kill of mamool/colibri?

[AoshiZ]

There is no evidence at this point (from all the parses that I have seen) that this is anything more than a balancing of DD's. I have not seen any proof that two-handed users are now crushing dual-wielders in the way that dual-wielders used to crush two-handed users.

Is there a thread for parses? Cause I keep hearing people say "don't worry, don't worry... I've seen plenty of parses that just show this narrows the gap, nothing more" ... yet, I haven't seen extensive parses.

By extensive, I mean multiple parses of different jobs as well as documentation of the gear being worn by those jobs, etc.

No more generalities, please.

LOL, no more generalities? Like the people that are crying over this buff because they think that dual-wield is gimp now with zero proof?

I made no claim about extensive testing, in fact, I always couched my comments in the limited parser information that I have seen so far, but that limited information is not in the direction of the people that are crying about the damage of dual-wielders.

I totally agree with you. People that are crying about DW going bye-bye are being alarmists, for sure... at least at this stage without extensive tests.

My post was more of a veiled request for more parse information rather than an attack on your comments... though they're basically the converse of what the DW people are saying without requisite proof either.

LOL, ok cool, then we totally agree. More parses please! Less Rukenshin parses too! He is just broken. LOL

This is an escape statement. By this philosophy it would mean that there exists a Dual Wielder out there can can do similar numbers to Rukenshin in the exact opposite side of the spectrum. But i have yet so see such parse anywhere. Yet i see many parses in this forum showing the large amounts of 2H damage.

The most important aspect that has been avoided is the Accuracy boost. I see many individuals lumping the entire update together and either good or bad. I want to see someone justify to me why Being Naked with an A++ weapon and /checking an IT mob to have low evasion is ok? This is causing a narrowing of gear rather than keeping selections open as it should in an MMO (people want to be unique). Saying the update was good means that the individual feels that two handed wielders can pretty much not have to deal with accuracy as much anymore.

Extra 40-50 Accuracy isn't that much has also been brought up.... Any veteran can tell you how hard it is to get this amount of accuracy from equipping multiple peacock level items to sacrificing your food to sushi.

I would appreciate the next arguements in favor of the update to address these issues and justify how 2handed weapons should always /check IT naked to have low evasion.

AoshiZ
Gilgamesh

[Turtlesoup]

I wouldn't be surprised if the guy that said they only did it to kill AV at fan festival was right.

[aurik]

How is more 2h damage going to save you from meteor spam and benediciton?

[Turtlesoup]

How is more 2h damage going to save you from meteor spam and benediciton?

Maybe not meteor spam, but doing 2500 damage WS would certainly help beat benediction.

[Ivve]

How is more 2h damage going to save you from meteor spam and benediciton?

I wouldn't bother wasting logic or common sense on anything dealing with AV.

[ringthree]

[quote=AoshiZ]

There is no evidence at this point (from all the parses that I have seen) that this is anything more than a balancing of DD's. I have not seen any proof that two-handed users are now crushing dual-wielders in the way that dual-wielders used to crush two-handed users.

Is there a thread for parses? Cause I keep hearing people say "don't worry, don't worry... I've seen plenty of parses that just show this narrows the gap, nothing more" ... yet, I haven't seen extensive parses.

By extensive, I mean multiple parses of different jobs as well as documentation of the gear being worn by those jobs, etc.

No more generalities, please.

LOL, no more generalities? Like the people that are crying over this buff because they think that dual-wield is gimp now with zero proof?

I made no claim about extensive testing, in fact, I always couched my comments in the limited parser information that I have seen so far, but that limited information is not in the direction of the people that are crying about the damage of dual-wielders.

I totally agree with you. People that are crying about DW going bye-bye are being alarmists, for sure... at least at this stage without extensive tests.

My post was more of a veiled request for more parse information rather than an attack on your comments... though they're basically the converse of what the DW people are saying without requisite proof either.

LOL, ok cool, then we totally agree. More parses please! Less Rukenshin parses too! He is just broken. LOL

This is an escape statement. By this philosophy it would mean that there exists a Dual Wielder out there can can do similar numbers to Rukenshin in the exact opposite side of the spectrum. But i have yet so see such parse anywhere. Yet i see many parses in this forum showing the large amounts of 2H damage. [/quote:e3f2e]

Ummm, no... those parses didn't exist BEFORE the update, thus why we should toss any data with the name Rukenshin in it. LOL

The most important aspect that has been avoided is the Accuracy boost. I see many individuals lumping the entire update together and either good or bad. I want to see someone justify to me why Being Naked with an A++ weapon and /checking an IT mob to have low evasion is ok? This is causing a narrowing of gear rather than keeping selections open as it should in an MMO (people want to be unique). Saying the update was good means that the individual feels that two handed wielders can pretty much not have to deal with accuracy as much anymore.

Extra 40-50 Accuracy isn't that much has also been brought up.... Any veteran can tell you how hard it is to get this amount of accuracy from equipping multiple peacock level items to sacrificing your food to sushi.

Ummm, no... I think even the biggest fans of the update still looked at the DEX=Acc aspect and said that it was borked.

I would appreciate the next arguements in favor of the update to address these issues and justify how 2handed weapons should always /check IT naked to have low evasion.

AoshiZ
Gilgamesh

Ummm, no... I don't have to justify my happiness to you. LOL I will say that I haven't seen any of the very few parses indicate that the roles of dual-wielders and two-handed users have been reversed, they only ones I have seen indicate they are pretty darn close now.

[Xavier]

Can't wait to see everyones face when this shit gets brought back down to earth.

And if you look at my jobs, I'm evenly distributed.

[evilpaul]

Can't the "you can still get 25k+/hr with your BB MNKs and Ridill WARs on Colibri" argument be brought out for half the people crying "zomg overpowered!!!" (even though it is )?

They're obviously going to make some changes to this, probably on the Sept. mini-update, so I don't think it's a big deal really. Hopefully fix the low capped damage with 1h weapons at least.

[Pacha]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14675&sid=27


Just bought a Woodsman ring the day before the patch...trying to figure out how exactly this patch made the game better.

[VZX]

expect 1h jobs to be out like 2005 rangers.

They got less impact compared to What RNG got in 2005

[evilpaul]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14675&sid=27


Just bought a Woodsman ring the day before the patch...trying to figure out how exactly this patch made the game better.

It would be nice if Sniper's tanked in price as much, but I guess most 2h DDs don't have shadows so they went with Woodsman's.

And why isn't Hades' FFXIAH.com thingy been updated since the 26th?

[fantasticdan]

Can someone explain why people think anything should be outdoing MNK in melee damage?

Why not? All war, drk, drg, sam, mnk, etc. generally do is deal damage, I don't see why mnk being on the same level, or even weaker for once is some huge injustice. You can bring up situational shit like drg/mage or drk/nin tank, but mnk still has it's situational uses as well.

I think blu, thf, and rng got the stick more than anyone else this update.

[Gere]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14675&sid=27


Just bought a Woodsman ring the day before the patch...trying to figure out how exactly this patch made the game better.

It would be nice if Sniper's tanked in price as much, but I guess most 2h DDs don't have shadows so they went with Woodsman's.

And why isn't Hades' FFXIAH.com thingy been updated since the 26th?

Perhaps some of the AH checking bots got banned. I haven't sold my woodsmans due to ffxiah showing no drop, however I just noticed the date soooo I gotta go check the price right now.

[BerenTebogo]

The only thing that upsets me is seeing Onimaru SAMs with 56 NQ DEX rings subbing WAR and keeping pace with Axe / Joy or Axe / Axe WARs (or NINs who don't have haub +1 and etc)

There's a lot of WELL geared people, who aren't on the top tier (ridills, adaberks) who just got pushed out by people with 300k worth of gear total.

That's my only real gripe, need to tone down the DEX thing, 90% of these people shouldn't be able to hit a barn door with meat and no bard.

[BRP]

2-hand weapons: 1 STR - 1 Atk
1-hand, not dual wiedling: 1 Dex - Acc
Dual-Wield: Compensate not having the above with the extra attack and faster attacks.

Gaem balance.