The Rest of Us [Dual Wield to 2h comparisons]

[aurik]

You're missing the point. You wrote a whole paragraph saying they are balanced based on their "role" of healing (I am not disagreeing with you on this). While, at the same time, you say that when comparing DRG and MNKs they need to be balanced on their job defining features not their role. A DRG's "role" is damage dealing. its not support.. its not tanking its not healing. Its DDing. That should be what you define balance on.

No it's role is as a utility DD player. They provide some damage, but also some utility: the flexibility they get through their wyvern and their ability to manipulate hate means they are less specialized.

[HadesBothari]

No it's role is as a utility DD player.

Well I'm glad you aren't a dev and I'm not a "utility DD" anymore is all I can say.

[aurik]

No it's role is as a utility DD player.

Well I'm glad you aren't a dev and I'm not a "utility DD" anymore is all I can say.

If you wanted to be a pure DD, you should have picked a pure DD job, suited to the task, instead of picking a flexible utility class and trying to measure up in something your job was never meant to measure up in.

But I'm sure next we'll hear the alla drg collective whining because they can't heal as well as white mage or debuff as well as red.

[Yutuyu]

Like Aurik said, you can't expect to be able to match up to everyone in every way. But the overall should be equal. DRG still may not deal damage like a SAM or a DRK, but they'll take less damage because some of their damage is distributed on the Wyvern and they have hate loss abilities. Your overall performance isn't just what damage you put in, but how much MP you sponge out.

[fantasticdan]

You're missing the point. You wrote a whole paragraph saying they are balanced based on their "role" of healing (I am not disagreeing with you on this). While, at the same time, you say that when comparing DRG and MNKs they need to be balanced on their job defining features not their role. A DRG's "role" is damage dealing. its not support.. its not tanking its not healing. Its DDing. That should be what you define balance on.

No it's role is as a utility DD player. They provide some damage, but also some utility: the flexibility they get through their wyvern and their ability to manipulate hate means they are less specialized.

Yeah, manipulating hate on a 3 minute timer, on one out of every 6+ exp mobs is really job defining. High jump doesn't do shit for hate most of the time, and pulls hate itself at times. All a drg with a dd sub is deal damage, with small hate distribution between wyvern (which also just does damage...) and occasional hate shed. All a mnk/war does is deal damage, with reduced TP gain by the mob due to high amount of subtle blow, with the occasional counter attack and chakra, not that far apart.

Bringing tier 2 merits into this only hurts your argument, since last I checked, none of mnks are related to dealing physical damage.

[Shuemue]

Bringing tier 2 merits into this only hurts your argument, since last I checked, none of mnks are related to dealing physical damage.

All the group 2 mnk merits are comical compared to shit like Angon, Feint, Chivalry, Devotion, etc.

[NynJa]

Bringing tier 2 merits into this only hurts your argument, since last I checked, none of mnks are related to dealing physical damage.

All the group 2 mnk merits are comical compared to shit like Angon, Feint, Chivalry, Devotion, etc.

Mantra is pretty epic in salvage !

[HadesBothari]

cool .. so now monks are utility DDs.. they can help with HP in salvage.. Just kidding..

[fantasticdan]

Bringing tier 2 merits into this only hurts your argument, since last I checked, none of mnks are related to dealing physical damage.

All the group 2 mnk merits are comical compared to shit like Angon, Feint, Chivalry, Devotion, etc.

So what? I think auriks made it clear he cares more about uniqueness and specialization than functionality. If drg's specialization is subbing mage to support heal and super jump, than mnks specialization is in max hp, reducing mob tp gain, and shooting energy balls.

[Priran]

Bringing tier 2 merits into this only hurts your argument, since last I checked, none of mnks are related to dealing physical damage.

All the group 2 mnk merits are comical compared to shit like Angon, Feint, Chivalry, Devotion, etc.

So what? I think auriks made it clear he cares more about uniqueness and specialization than functionality. If drg's specialization is subbing mage to support heal and super jump, than mnks specialization is in max hp, reducing mob tp gain, and shooting energy balls.

it's like the whole point of his argument is absolutely lost on you

i kind of hope you're consciously doing this to take the path of least resistance until aurik just gives up, it's kind of depressing if this is really what passes for argument on these forums

[BRP]

Before Angon, was DRG a utility DD? Their best utility is that(lol at Jump status effects, every 2 hours) and probably about equal to MNK with group II merits without it.

Let's forget all important point: Players pick what jobs are what.

[aurik]

Before Angon, was DRG a utility DD? Their best utility is that(lol at Jump status effects, every 2 hours) and probably about equal to MNK with group II merits without it.

Let's forget all important point: Players pick what jobs are what.

Healing breath? Status removal breath? Hate management through dispersal? I don't think anyone will argue that pre-patch drgs didn't completely suck and that their role was marginal at best, but it was still there.

[Beckwin]

Ok, and mnks still have counter, guard, dodge, counterstance, chakra, and chiblast which kinda extend beyond simply punching fodder mobs, regardless of how comparitively ineffectual they are at tanking/nuking.

[aurik]

Ok, and mnks still have counter, guard, dodge, counterstance, chakra, and chiblast which kinda extend beyond simply punching fodder mobs, regardless of how comparitively ineffectual they are at tanking/nuking.

And I wouldn't be complaining half as much if these JT were useful enough to actually define a unique role for mnk.

[Neosutra]

Am I the only one that loves penance?

[Beckwin]

And whatever happened to the countertanking revolution?

DRG shit outside of angon is worthless, so heaven forbid that they can actually do some decent damage on HNMs and thus take advantage of their hate-shedding ability. And yeah, they're pretty buff on colibri, but that has no bearing at all on the performance of mnk on colibri or any other merit mob.

[aurik]

And whatever happened to the countertanking revolution?

You mean how, with 500m in gear and an alliance completely oriented to support me, I can tank stuff almost as good as a ninja while doing the DD of a monk? Because I already went over it, you're just too eager to get digs to see it I guess.

DRG shit outside of angon is worthless, so heaven forbid that they can actually do some decent damage on HNMs and thus take advantage of their hate-shedding ability.

Where have I complained about DRG's new-found powers on HNM? I think it's great, but the baggage that came with it is a poison pill.

[AoshiZ]

What do you guys think about if they changed monk to gain TP from counterstance? I think that would be pretty good... not sure about HNMs, but i think that is something I've always wanted to see with Monk.

AoshiZ

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Before Angon, was DRG a utility DD? Their best utility is that(lol at Jump status effects, every 2 hours) and probably about equal to MNK with group II merits without it.

Let's forget all important point: Players pick what jobs are what.

Healing breath? Status removal breath? Hate management through dispersal? I don't think anyone will argue that pre-patch drgs didn't completely suck and that their role was marginal at best, but it was still there.

Jesus, you're so full of shit. Give it a fucking rest.

Your whole argument is FULL of complete utter shit.

Prior to this update, NOBODY invited DRG for ANY of the reasons you've brought up for ANY event. It's like you're taking the rest of us for complete fools if you think we really believe in your shitty "utility dd" stand.

Hell, this just might be the first time anyone's ever brought up those shitty excuses. Gee, prior to this update, I don't think anyone of us has ever heard of or made the argument for DRG being a "utility DD". Why not? Cuz it meant exactly jack and shit in the world of FFXI where such jobs as RDM, NIN and BRD took care of all the "utility" you could ever need. Which leaves DDing as the sole role of DRG, and they've been lacking at that for FAR too long.

Here's hoping SE doesn't actually listen to all the sandy vaginas in here.

[BRP]

Am I the only one who read that with Jean Claud Van Damme's voice? Very entertaining.