Poll: What is your opinion of the 2-handed weapon update?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I think they'd need to take away both the dex and strength thing. Being able to walk around with a 2.5-3.0 pdif average is sick enough as it is, and the weaponskill boosts are great.

keep the STR, move the DEX to one hand.

Wait, why do 1h need it? They don't need buffing at all.

I say just get rid of the DEX thing.

Dual wielders take the back seat to 2handers, and aren't as able to pump out as much damage just due to the game mechanics of dual wielding vs 2handing. Giving them something even as small as a DEX accuracy bonus won't completely close the gap, but it's at least something.

lmfao shove that quote 24 hours back in time and see what you think of it. When we get more parses in then maybe you can bitch more.

Oh how soon people forget how adamantly they thought 2h weapons were complete shit prepatch.

[Taylorman]

I think it might be possible that this "over powered" moment is intentional.

Might be that the expansion will involve fighting mobs that are much stronger.

I remember reading in a cut scene or something that during the great war the beastmen were much more powerful because of the dark lord.

I recall this interview as well. SE said the update wasnt to fix the jobs, but to prepare them for the new expansion. And from the pics of those armored Orcs, id say things will even out in the new era.

currently great axe @206 and i can out damage my fully merrited axes. But my 75 Drk is so popular now he is banging the prom queen, so i cant complain.

[Katalya]

I said perfect, I agree it is about time 2handed weapon users take over dw.

/sam the new /nin?

[simozene]

I think if SE was going to make another change, they have 2 options:

1. Use the same formula for everything (1-handed, 2-handed, ranged) and use the damage and delay rating of weapons to even things up. This would by far be the simplest approach to balancing everything from a programming perspective.

or

2. 2-handed weapon:
1 STR = 1 attack, 2 DEX = 1 acc, 2 AGI = 1 evasion/parry
1-handed weapon:
2 STR = 1 attack, 2 DEX = 1 acc, 1 AGI = 1 evasion/parry

This would actually be pretty interesting because it would make 2-handed weapons more offensive and 1-handed weapons more defensive.
(Note: 1 DEX = 1 acc is too overpowered for any class to have)

[NynJa]

Oh how soon people forget how adamantly they thought 2h weapons were complete shit prepatch.

2h users WERE GETTING USED prepatch..
Where the fuck did those screenshots of epic gekkos, guillos, steel cyclones come from 72 hours ago otherwise ??


THREE hours of the servers coming up, I saw a screenshot of ONE samurai dishing out about 8k damage just through his weaponskills on fafnir (WS, 2h WS x3, med WS). Oh, lets not mention the 2.4k Gekko...This is before people even analyzed the new changes.

[layoneil]

I recall this interview as well. SE said the update wasnt to fix the jobs, but to prepare them for the new expansion. And from the pics of those armored Orcs, id say things will even out in the new era.

that's kind of a BS answer. will THFs always hit for 0 on those mobs?

[Kazen]

I think they overdid it a bit, looking at some screenshots a Samurai did a 2467 Gekko to Fafnir which is way to much. I think the way they are on exp mobs now is fine, however, I think it needs some adjusting for the HNM factor.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Oh how soon people forget how adamantly they thought 2h weapons were complete shit prepatch.

2h users WERE GETTING USED prepatch..
Where the fuck did those screenshots of epic gekkos, guillos, steel cyclones come from 72 hours ago otherwise ??

And if you think THF, NIN, and WAR aren't going to be used anymore then you be crazy. MNK is the only one that might be iffy but it still will pump out great damage. Of course the top DDs always get picked over the lower ones but all thats changed about that is which are which and I'd say that the margin is much smaller now.

[Croaker]

Just about everyone has always said that SE would never raise the level cap due to balance issues.

I am now wondering to what level would a pre-patch SAM or DRG have to be to equal the current damage of a post-patch SAM or DRG? 80? 85? 90?

This is obviously a job for the math people, but it would be very interesting to know.

[Vedder]

I said perfect, I agree it is about time 2handed weapon users take over dw.

/sam the new /nin?

It's not about "payback" or "come-uppance", it's about balance.

And this shit ain't balanced. (I say fully aware that I haven't done or seen parses to back myself up.)

[RKenshin]

I think it's slightly overpowered at this time. Maybe even a little more than slightly overpowered, but I really don't think it's way overpowered.

Although I think it's funny how some people are seeing this from a completely blind dual wielding standpoint. Hearing how people think it's ridiculous that an average AH SAM/DRG/DRK/etc can compete with/outdamage a decked out Ridill WAR or MNK, yet fail to realize that this was almost exactly the case before the nerf (except opposite). An average AH ridill WAR or MNK/WAR could compete with/outdamage many decked out 2h-handed jobs with few exceptions. So really it's almost like they switched the rolls completely, and now instead of 2h jobs venting over how overpowered dual wielders are it's the opposite.

However I'll still say it is slightly overpowered now. I think they should remove the cap on melee attacks for 1h weapons (despite how rare it is to actually hit that cap), and either buff up melee/WS a little more for 2h weapons or nerf melee/WS a little for 1h weapons. I think that would make the playing fields a little more even and fair, because frankly decked out 2h users are like a pre-nerf RNG+2.

But, really the ironic thing is 2h weapons probably should've been this 'overpowered' from the start, and I think everyone is so stuck in the mind-set that dual wielding > all to realize it. I know when I started this game I couldn't figure out why the hell it was better DoT in just about every way to hit stuff with swords/axes/katanas/daggers over great swords/great axes/great katanas. Especially considering that in relation to previous FFs jobs like DRK, DRG, and SAM were power houses in comparison to other jobs.

[Croaker]

In the real world...

I stopped here. In the real world we don't worry about formula's for attack and defense against dragons.

voted they're just perfect... b/c for once instead of SE nerfing a job or situation they buff the other jobs. It's something people have been asking SE to do for years. Now they're getting slammed b/c they buffed jobs too much? That's just not right.

Even a fantasy world needs some amount of real world sanity. 2-handed weapons being more accurate than single handed weapons makes about as much sense as making chocobos movement speed slower than walking speed.

[LD]

To be honest, as much as I'm worried about what has happened, I find it difficult to take a firm stand on this without more data. 1H's non-crit cap being 2.0 and 2H going all the way up to the crit cap is enough for me to say there is a problem, but not enough for me to say my job is (indirectly) nerfed.

In my opinion, 2H was always meant to hit higher damage on high def/vit/level mobs while 1H were meant to have better averages than 2H on low to mid def/vit/level mobs. That was how shit was meant to work. I can admit that 1H had the monopoly on both, but just switching the thing around isn't the answer. They need to find a way to do that.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I think it's slightly overpowered at this time. Maybe even a little more than slightly overpowered, but I really don't think it's way overpowered.

Although I think it's funny how some people are seeing this from a completely blind dual wielding standpoint. Hearing how people think it's ridiculous that an average AH SAM/DRG/DRK/etc can compete with/outdamage a decked out Ridill WAR or MNK, yet fail to realize that this was almost exactly the case before the nerf (except opposite). An average AH ridill WAR or MNK/WAR could compete with/outdamage many decked out 2h-handed jobs with few exceptions. So really it's almost like they switched the rolls completely, and now instead of 2h jobs venting over how overpowered dual wielders are it's the opposite.

However I'll still say it is slightly overpowered now. I think they should remove the cap on melee attacks for 1h weapons (despite how rare it is to actually hit that cap), and either buff up melee/WS a little more for 2h weapons or nerf melee/WS a little for 1h weapons. I think that would make the playing fields a little more even and fair, because frankly decked out 2h users are like a pre-nerf RNG+2.

But, really the ironic thing is 2h weapons probably should've been this 'overpowered' from the start, and I think everyone is so stuck in the mind-set that dual wielding > all to realize it. I know when I started this game I couldn't figure out why the hell it was better DoT in just about every way to hit stuff with swords/axes/katanas/daggers over great swords/great axes/great katanas. Especially considering that in relation to previous FFs jobs like DRK, DRG, and SAM were power houses in comparison to other jobs.

Heil Ruke!

[divisortheory]

I think it's slightly overpowered at this time. Maybe even a little more than slightly overpowered, but I really don't think it's way overpowered.

Although I think it's funny how some people are seeing this from a completely blind dual wielding standpoint. Hearing how people think it's ridiculous that an average AH SAM/DRG/DRK/etc can compete with/outdamage a decked out Ridill WAR or MNK, yet fail to realize that this was almost exactly the case before the nerf (except opposite). An average AH ridill WAR or MNK/WAR could compete with/outdamage many decked out 2h-handed jobs with few exceptions. So really it's almost like they switched the rolls completely, and now instead of 2h jobs venting over how overpowered dual wielders are it's the opposite.

Let's take this one step further. SE answered everyone's prayers. All those people complaining about how they had to spend time in Aery to compete with the big boys can now pack their shit, tell Fafnir to GTFO, and leave. Make a quick stop by your local AH, buy a Hagun, and STFU.

[RKenshin]

I didnt' think about that but it's a good point lol...

And at this point you probably won't even need a Hagun.

2h DoT is actually worth a shit now, and with the new WS formula it might be better to get a GK with better stats.

[Leashedragon]

I think it's slightly overpowered at this time. Maybe even a little more than slightly overpowered, but I really don't think it's way overpowered.

Although I think it's funny how some people are seeing this from a completely blind dual wielding standpoint. Hearing how people think it's ridiculous that an average AH SAM/DRG/DRK/etc can compete with/outdamage a decked out Ridill WAR or MNK, yet fail to realize that this was almost exactly the case before the nerf (except opposite). An average AH ridill WAR or MNK/WAR could compete with/outdamage many decked out 2h-handed jobs with few exceptions. So really it's almost like they switched the rolls completely, and now instead of 2h jobs venting over how overpowered dual wielders are it's the opposite.

However I'll still say it is slightly overpowered now. I think they should remove the cap on melee attacks for 1h weapons (despite how rare it is to actually hit that cap), and either buff up melee/WS a little more for 2h weapons or nerf melee/WS a little for 1h weapons. I think that would make the playing fields a little more even and fair, because frankly decked out 2h users are like a pre-nerf RNG+2.

But, really the ironic thing is 2h weapons probably should've been this 'overpowered' from the start, and I think everyone is so stuck in the mind-set that dual wielding > all to realize it. I know when I started this game I couldn't figure out why the hell it was better DoT in just about every way to hit stuff with swords/axes/katanas/daggers over great swords/great axes/great katanas. Especially considering that in relation to previous FFs jobs like DRK, DRG, and SAM were power houses in comparison to other jobs.

Finally, someone who's not being completely retarded about it. (I mean that in the best of ways.)

I haven't gotten out to exp yet, only a little bit of testing on Lesser Colibri's last night. And from that as /WHM it was nowhere close to being overpowered.

The update has only been out for not even a day yet, people are using maximum setups to get maximum damage and posting screenshots of it and people were yelling "NERF!" Not to mention, most of the first screenshots were tests on Lesser Colibri(EP), Imps in Mire(T), and Spongollia Flies(VT?). I did see Ruk's post about his Mamool party though, and it honestly didn't seem THAT "overpowered". I'm not a SAM, I don't know the average before hand damage compared to now.

I'm not bitter that gimped AH DRG can do pretty good damage now, because I know that my time and effort in getting the gear I have wasn't wasted. Why? Because I'll still out damage them. Better gear is better, period. Pimped before, even more now.

I just think people are being a little overly hastey on yelling "OMG OVERPOWERED! NERF NAO!" But I'm starting to agree that it needs a -little- tweaking.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

The one thing I think was COMPLETELY gratuitous was the buffing of Gkt WSes. SAM didn't need that at all.

[Sylvaria]

was playin around with ushi(no onimaru on ah <.>) and hagun in todays merit pty,i couldnt parse since parser is broken but from eyeballing(isnt relyable,but still) it seems that the relation hagun-other gkts is still the same...you just have bigger numbers overall now lol

all in all,the update is increble fun but i agree that its...maybe more than a bit broken and maybe needs some kind of fix,just to make that weird feeling stop i get, when i somehow arent able to to WS under 1k anymore lawl

[Mifaco]

2h users WERE GETTING USED prepatch..
Where the fuck did those screenshots of epic gekkos, guillos, steel cyclones come from 72 hours ago otherwise ??

They weren't being used enough. Furthermore, they were getting kicked out of the alliance after their epeen WSes.

I think this update went overboard with the buff. With their TP adjustments and pDIF domination, 2-handers are now gods. I think everyone should look on the bright side, though: now everyone will be camping Fafnir for hecta head instead of Ridill.