Poll: What is your opinion of the 2-handed weapon update?

[Nameless]

Personally I don't see why so many ppl complain that it doesn't make sense "In real life" that 2hand weapon has more accuracy, I mean this is final fantasy and characters use magic, armor and avaters. SE are trying to make the game balanced by allowing two hand weapon users to equip attack stuff to further enhance their damage instead of having to worry about accuracy.

I mean, if you want to compare to real life, then in reality a GS should be able to chop off someone's arm or leg everytime it connects, which you should never get hurt by something like a one hand sword if you have armor on. So let's say 2hand weapon should kill a dragon in 5 hits, two arms, two legs, and then head, while one hand weapon shouldn't even cut open a dragon's skin. Yet I dont see two hand weapon base damage is 10 times better than one hand weapon in this game. So in order to make up with the non sense, SE decided to give more non sense that two hand weapons give more accuracy.

At least it makes the game balanced. Don't tell me it is not real. Nothing is real in this game period.

[Akiyama]

Yeah. here I was th inking they'd nerf them for being too strong. >.>

[Amara]

I mean, if you want to compare to real life, then in reality a GS should be able to chop off someone's arm or leg everytime it connects, which you should never get hurt by something like a one hand sword if you have armor on. So let's say 2hand weapon should kill a dragon in 5 hits, two arms, two legs, and then head, while one hand weapon shouldn't even cut open a dragon's skin. Yet I dont see two hand weapon base damage is 10 times better than one hand weapon in this game. So in order to make up with the non sense, SE decided to give more non sense that two hand weapons give more accuracy.

Except in real life a FF great sword would be so unwieldy that simply making contact with an opponent would probably be impossible.

edit: While I've wanted a buff to 2handed weapons for a long time, the stealth cap to 1handed weapons really is unfair, I know 90% of situations you don't push 900 attack, but I rather liked being able to hit for 110+ with my sword >

Oh and Samurais shouldn't be able to do 2400 damage weaponskills to Fafnir, under any circumstances. But otherwise it doesn't seem _that_ broken.

[RKenshin]

One other thing I want to set straight:

A lot of people have been saying a cheap AH SAM/DRG/etc can go and blow stuff to hell with shit gear now... And that this update has made it so shitty gear can get you the results of fantastic gear for 2h users. Where as before a shitty geared Rid WAR or MNK wouldn't do anywhere near as good as a decked out version.

This couldn't be anymore false, and this is a prime example of people not going out and testing these things/observing them for themselves. After looking at a lot of parse results now it's very easy to see there are some big discrepencies in WS averages and melee averages comparing decked out 2h users vs AH 2h users vs sucky 2h users. I've seen melee averages of 160 with 94 damage weapons and melee averages of 260 with 88 damage weapons. So there's obviously a big difference made with the gear you're using.

And, that is one aspect of this update that definitely is not overpowered in any aspect IMO.

Except in real life a FF great sword would be so unwieldy that simply making contact with an opponent would probably be impossible.

And in real life there's no such thing as magic, you have to draw a line on how realistic you try to get with these things you know. The whole wielding gigantic weapons being a hindurance is one of them that you get over a long time ago... Back when Cloud/Seph had swords that could slice cars in half.

[Weeks]

Think about it, Ridill/Joyuse Warrior before this update parse in par with Apoc Drk. I don't care what happen but a WAR without their relic GA should never parse in par with Drk with relic. Just that simple. Talking about job balance. Now Ridill War actually parse only slightly better than a well equiped drk and will get blown away by Apoc Drk. Only make sense this way.

Relic users were beating Ridill WARs and Black Belt MNKs before this update, as they should. Ridill and Black Belt users should be beating most everyone else, because it takes a hell of a lot more work to get a Ridill or Black Belt than it takes to trot over to the AH and buy a fucking Hagun.

[divisortheory]

Think about it, Ridill/Joyuse Warrior before this update parse in par with Apoc Drk. I don't care what happen but a WAR without their relic GA should never parse in par with Drk with relic. Just that simple. Talking about job balance. Now Ridill War actually parse only slightly better than a well equiped drk and will get blown away by Apoc Drk. Only make sense this way.

Relic users were beating Ridill WARs and Black Belt MNKs before this update, as they should. Ridill and Black Belt users should be beating most everyone else, because it takes a hell of a lot more work to get a Ridill or Black Belt than it takes to trot over to the AH and buy a fucking Hagun.

Takes a lot of work to get a Spelunker's Hat too, does that mean people with Spelunker's Hats should be beating everyone? If something is better, use it.

[Admo]

Do you dual-wielding guys just think, for a moment, that the 2-handed weapon jobs actually deserved to have this buff? Granted, it might be a little too powerful, but really now, how long has it been that people were grabbing these guys for xp/merit parties? What about DRG? DRGs were laughed at for years and would never be invited to do anything. It's really nice to see that the tables are actually turned here and the ridill WARs aren't quite as high on their RidillWAROnry pedestal.

[Croaker]

Think about it, Ridill/Joyuse Warrior before this update parse in par with Apoc Drk. I don't care what happen but a WAR without their relic GA should never parse in par with Drk with relic. Just that simple. Talking about job balance. Now Ridill War actually parse only slightly better than a well equiped drk and will get blown away by Apoc Drk. Only make sense this way.

Relic users were beating Ridill WARs and Black Belt MNKs before this update, as they should. Ridill and Black Belt users should be beating most everyone else, because it takes a hell of a lot more work to get a Ridill or Black Belt than it takes to trot over to the AH and buy a fucking Hagun.

Takes a lot of work to get a Spelunker's Hat too, does that mean people with Spelunker's Hats should be beating everyone? If something is better, use it.

I hope that you come out of retirement and update your parser so we can get some real results.

[Cjskater]

Would people stfu and think maybe there are other 1H job besides Ridill WAR?

[Weeks]

And in real life there's no such thing as magic, you have to draw a line on how realistic you try to get with these things you know. The whole wielding gigantic weapons being a hindurance is one of them that you get over a long time ago... Back when Cloud/Seph had swords that could slice cars in half.

You're on the wrong side of this argument. This "real life" nonsense has been driving the argument that 2H weapons should beat 1H weapons. The argument is absurd no matter how far you take it.

[Nameless]

I think the only thing in this update that is a bit overdone is the fact that when you double attack during the WS (outside of your fixed hits like guillotine is 4 and rampage is 5, I am talking about the extra hit that you bring with DA JT), your second hit's fTP is the same as your first hit. Other than that I have no problem with anything else. (Note that this will solve the soboro problem and SAM hitting 2400 with a DA proc on fafy.) It used to be any extra hit including your fix hit after the first hit is 1.0 fSTR, which made cross reaper shit. If they can just make extra hits back to 1.0 fSTR and fixed hits follow first hit fSTR, it will be perfect.

I have no problem with both cross reaper's hit being at the same fSTR. That makes the WS special as it is the only multi hit WS that has a higher than 1.0 fSTR.

With a Soboro, it makes every sam's ws a automatic Cross Reaper with a higher fSTR and higher secondary modifier.

I am expecting it to be fixed soon.

[wintersquall]

i spent all last night doing the new ToAU mish, and am at work today so haven't had the chance to really get into the meat and potatoes of how playing SAM now is going to differ than pre-update.

but after looking over every forum i can think of... all these ridiculous SAM numbers peple are spewing (ZOMG 10k damage!! SAM is bwoken!!)...

were put up on FAFNIR. singularly.

i can tell you flat out that fighting a certain ToAU final boss, that i was NOT putting up quite ZOMG numbers, and i am a very well-equipped crazy gear-swapping SAM/WAR using meat. i was certainly doing more dmg than i did before the update, but...

maybe it's a glitch vs. HNM in general with the level diff or something, and will be fixed. more than likely it's a manifestation of how DA works with the new pDIF (see soboro), and wil be fixed as well.

but i believe that 2H is either perfect now, or -very- slightly overpowered, and the dex=acc thing is a little much - i didn't miss much before =P

[Ploid]

I love it how it is. No one got nerfed, only people wanting to hang in with stupid dmg someone got off a favorable mob that's weak to their weapon type. I'm happy for drg and hope it become one of the best kinds of dd on HNMs. They have great tools, and abilities to suit HNM fights but hardly get to use them because they didn't have any dual wield or sick dmg of drks souped up on buffs (even drks usually take back seats to hateless dmg and very minimal tp nukes). Like they say, THF pay for it's speed with low dmg daggers, mnk/nins/axe wars pay for their great dmg per hand + speed with awesome merit parties. DRK/SAM/gaxe wars (stop messing around and buy two axes) and way down the list DRGs paid for their 2hand weapons with low delay, low invites, and missing weaponskills (We must sub thf to do the dmg we need!). No one got nerfed, if peope expect to go all out and rip up hnms with their new drk/war they'll most likely die, although they can probably stay alive a bit longer than blms due to armor and hp.

[Isiolia]

Personally I don't see why so many ppl complain that it doesn't make sense "In real life" that 2hand weapon has more accuracy, I mean this is final fantasy and characters use magic, armor and avaters. SE are trying to make the game balanced by allowing two hand weapon users to equip attack stuff to further enhance their damage instead of having to worry about accuracy.

I mean, if you want to compare to real life, then in reality a GS should be able to chop off someone's arm or leg everytime it connects, which you should never get hurt by something like a one hand sword if you have armor on. So let's say 2hand weapon should kill a dragon in 5 hits, two arms, two legs, and then head, while one hand weapon shouldn't even cut open a dragon's skin. Yet I dont see two hand weapon base damage is 10 times better than one hand weapon in this game. So in order to make up with the non sense, SE decided to give more non sense that two hand weapons give more accuracy.

At least it makes the game balanced. Don't tell me it is not real. Nothing is real in this game period.

Except that you're not accounting for precision, or type of weapon.

A 1h Axe would still have a lot of chopping power, which obviously something like a Rapier wouldn't. But that Rapier could be slipped in between plates of armor to do damage, whereas you'd have a hard time doing that with an axe. You'd need little room to manipulate a dagger so slit someone's throat. Could do it from close enough that they wouldn't be able to effectively hit you with a staff.
While a Greatsword should be able to lop a limb off, an archer should be able to put a bolt through someone's heart or through their eye to the brain to one-shot 'em.

While nothing is "real" per se, that doesn't necessarily mean that reality couldn't be used as a reference point when determining how to build a set of rules for combat in a game. Since weapons have classes based on real weapon types, why would it be a stretch to base their properties on those of real weapons?

Single wielded weapons swing faster, they should have a higher rate of parry, be more accurate, and get higher damage criticals compared to their base damage. Two handed weapons should hurt, but it makes more sense that they'd take longer to swing, miss more, and be harder to block with.
Along with that though, dual wielding weapons would make things less coordinated too.

[Nameless]

i spent all last night doing the new ToAU mish, and am at work today so haven't had the chance to really get into the meat and potatoes of how playing SAM now is going to differ than pre-update.

but after looking over every forum i can think of... all these ridiculous SAM numbers peple are spewing (ZOMG 10k damage!! SAM is bwoken!!)...

were put up on FAFNIR. singularly.

i can tell you flat out that fighting a certain ToAU final boss, that i was NOT putting up quite ZOMG numbers, and i am a very well-equipped crazy gear-swapping SAM/WAR using meat. i was certainly doing more dmg than i did before the update, but...

maybe it's a glitch vs. HNM in general with the level diff or something, and will be fixed. more than likely it's a manifestation of how DA works with the new pDIF (see soboro), and wil be fixed as well.

but i believe that 2H is either perfect now, or -very- slightly overpowered, and the dex=acc thing is a little much - i didn't miss much before =P

Those insane SAM numbers are DA proc with maybe 200% TP on a hagun. Meaning you are getting both hits at 3.5 fTP, which yea, should be 2k+ on fafy. Not a bug but the second hit for DA job trait should be 1.0 fTP instead, and let's hope SE fix it.

As for DRG insane penta number are on lol lesser birds so let's not talk about that. It is like bragging about doing a 300% spiral hell on limbus mob that take double the damage. I do 4k on those so no big deal. They do average about 1.2k penta in merit party tho.

[Tajin]

Fafnir for hecta head instead of Ridill.

that was on purpose right? <.<

[Croaker]

Would people stfu and think maybe there are other 1H job besides Ridill WAR?

Thief
Monk
Ranger
Puppetmaster
Corsair
Beastmaster

These are the only jobs that really suffer as they do not have the option to switch what they use. The pimped Ridill WAR at least has the option of picking up an Algol or Perdu sword and being right back near the top.

[Croaker]

Personally I don't see why so many ppl complain that it doesn't make sense "In real life" that 2hand weapon has more accuracy, I mean this is final fantasy and characters use magic, armor and avaters. SE are trying to make the game balanced by allowing two hand weapon users to equip attack stuff to further enhance their damage instead of having to worry about accuracy.

I mean, if you want to compare to real life, then in reality a GS should be able to chop off someone's arm or leg everytime it connects, which you should never get hurt by something like a one hand sword if you have armor on. So let's say 2hand weapon should kill a dragon in 5 hits, two arms, two legs, and then head, while one hand weapon shouldn't even cut open a dragon's skin. Yet I dont see two hand weapon base damage is 10 times better than one hand weapon in this game. So in order to make up with the non sense, SE decided to give more non sense that two hand weapons give more accuracy.

At least it makes the game balanced. Don't tell me it is not real. Nothing is real in this game period.

Except that you're not accounting for precision, or type of weapon.

A 1h Axe would still have a lot of chopping power, which obviously something like a Rapier wouldn't. But that Rapier could be slipped in between plates of armor to do damage, whereas you'd have a hard time doing that with an axe. You'd need little room to manipulate a dagger so slit someone's throat. Could do it from close enough that they wouldn't be able to effectively hit you with a staff.
While a Greatsword should be able to lop a limb off, an archer should be able to put a bolt through someone's heart or through their eye to the brain to one-shot 'em.

While nothing is "real" per se, that doesn't necessarily mean that reality couldn't be used as a reference point when determining how to build a set of rules for combat in a game. Since weapons have classes based on real weapon types, why would it be a stretch to base their properties on those of real weapons?

Single wielded weapons swing faster, they should have a higher rate of parry, be more accurate, and get higher damage criticals compared to their base damage. Two handed weapons should hurt, but it makes more sense that they'd take longer to swing, miss more, and be harder to block with.
Along with that though, dual wielding weapons would make things less coordinated too.

Real vs. fantasy. Sanity vs. insanity. It is all very interesting to read.

Strange thing is, after 3 years of playing this game for some reason I now feel like I am a beta tester.

[Almalexia]

Would people stfu and think maybe there are other 1H job besides Ridill WAR?

Thief
Monk
Ranger
Puppetmaster
Corsair
Beastmaster

These are the only jobs that really suffer as they do not have the option to switch what they use. The pimped Ridill WAR at least has the option of picking up an Algol or Perdu sword and being right back near the top.

Well, staff MNK! Get creative.

[Nameless]

On a side note. I don't doubt a DRK with Algol can do 2k+ spinning slash at 200% on fafy with DA proc in. Pretty insane I would say lol. Perhaps one hit WS with high fTP is the new trend.

Also, you ppl keep talking about soboro. I think you WARs should go pick up a Mercurious sword and just go spam Sickle Moon. I am telling you it will do the same or more than soboro SAM hehe.... Don't let the secret out