Taking a second look at zanshin

[lilfoo]

from RKenshin on Zanshin procing on WS

I know a response was posted already, but I just wanted to back this up... For a while I wasn't sure if Zanshin really worked for WS, and even though it'd make the most sense if it did since every other trait/ability/etc can work during a WS I still didn't know for certain.

For a bit I thought that it might've been possible that Zanshin activiating in a WS would replace the initial hit with the same strength.. So like, if you land the initial hit it'd be 16 TP return, and if you miss the initial hit then Zanshin would take its place and you'd still get 16 TP return and the same strength, which seemed to make the most sense for the results I was getting. Then, 1 TP return WS would just be missing the first hit and landing a DA.

But, have pretty reasonable proof it just works like a DA and is an unmodified 1 TP return. I've had two WS now getting 2 TP return, implying that Zanshin activated and I landed the second hit, and DA activated and I landed that hit as well. The damage and the log both justify this, as normally a 1 TP return is like 300-400 damage, and the two 2 TP returns were 600-800. And, there's no way to double attack twice in a one-hit WS.

Which, would also seem to prove that Double Attack is checked before Zanshin. Although, in my experience they don't stack, so that kind of complicates things. /shrug

Now with SAMs new rise to power i think this should be looked at again. this is the best post on BG that i have found in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13508&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=zan shin

what RKenshin said in the second paragraph of his post would make sense. having a second chance to hit a WS for full dmg and TP would be nice. but testing this seams near impossible as you would never know the difference between a normal hit and a zanshin hit on a WS if this were true. from what he said in the bottom of that post confirms more so the mystery of this.

it finally donned on me today a way to see if zanshin will proc on a WS and 100% prove it. and that is with going sam/mnk boosting and WSing and comparing it to a non boosted WS. what you would look for is a boosted WS that did the exact same average as an non-boosted. that would prove zanshin can proc on a WS with out much doubt.

But, due to the recent patch with the dmg hard caps added to lower lvl monster in order to see the difference between a boosted and non-boosted WS would add a large range of numbers for both with probably some overlap.

My question to the BG community would this stand up to the rigorous testing standards that the BG boards wants and come to expect? also if there was a thread that i missed that has better info please point me to it.

[Lynsy]

The "easier" way (and I mean easier very loosely) would be to do it versus Low levelish Ninja mobs. Zanshin is known to proc when the first hit is absorbed by a shadow, so simply WS when said NIN mob has 1 shadow left on Utsusemi and see what happens from there.

[Almalexia]

The "easier" way (and I mean easier very loosely) would be to do it versus Low levelish Ninja mobs. Zanshin is known to proc when the first hit is absorbed by a shadow, so simply WS when said NIN mob has 1 shadow left on Utsusemi and see what happens from there.

Is there any reason why Zanshin wouldn't operate the same way in a Ballista setting, where a partner could manipulate Utsusemi?

[Lynsy]

Not that I know of, which is what I started to suggest (testing in Ballista, I mean)...But with some of the quirky differences between players and mobs, I figured would be better to not risk there being a difference.

[sekaran]

I got 2TP back on a Gekko, but full damage a while ago. :]