Will They Fix It?

[aurik]

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

Ruke was always smashing people and his gear isn't AH by any stretch of imagination. He's ruke. I don't think people are whining that somebody with impeccable gear and a relic can smash face... I'm talking average AH 2hers beating pimped 1hers.

He's doing 40% more damage than pre-patch using the exact same gear. I think you missed that part. He was already winning the parse; now he is winning by a stupidly high margin.

[levish]

A crit rate trait for 10%base@25, 20%base@50, 30%base@60 and triple attack rate bumped to DA rate or maybe slightly higher, should do the trick for thief.

I don't like to make the analogy but 2H WS should be much stronger than a 1h users, but the 1h users base hits and WS's should be much more frequent

i.e. 1x2k Gekkos countered with 2x 1k SA or TA DE's on non piercing weak enemies.

Overall DOT and WS damage combined should be the nearly the same across all front line jobs assuming similar equipment.

My 2 bits

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

Ruke was always smashing people and his gear isn't AH by any stretch of imagination. He's ruke. I don't think people are whining that somebody with impeccable gear and a relic can smash face... I'm talking average AH 2hers beating pimped 1hers.

He's doing 40% more damage than pre-patch using the exact same gear. I think you missed that part. He was already winning the parse; now he is winning by a stupidly high margin.

He's Rukenshin

I know it seems like a copout but he's always done things that few others.

[Darkevolution]

The overall patch effect is crazy and I've stated why, but there are aspects people are bitching about that don't make sense.

Also, the insane focus on "doing the same dmg naked" on too weak is ridiculous. Prepatch Spharai on TW did 108-163 with avg 136 and 176-204 crits, 197 avg. Now it does 136 always and 204 always (excluding triples here, so same avg normal, better avg crits). The 2.0 pdif cap does cause a nerf when ratio is high but not high enough for pdif to always be 2.0, however this is in no way proven by any quoting of damage against TW crap. Your damage on TW was the same with gear vs naked pre-patch too, you're attacking shit with no defense, that's perfectly normal.

Finally someone else understands! Testing on TW is totally useless and if anything the pDif cap makes dmg on TW more averaged than before. Would you rather hit for 108-163 or always hit 136? On T+ thou it becomes a different story, but please stop testing/parsing on TW mobs.

[Eaglestrike]

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

Ruke was always smashing people and his gear isn't AH by any stretch of imagination. He's ruke. I don't think people are whining that somebody with impeccable gear and a relic can smash face... I'm talking average AH 2hers beating pimped 1hers.

He's doing 40% more damage than pre-patch using the exact same gear. I think you missed that part. He was already winning the parse; now he is winning by a stupidly high margin.

He's Rukenshin

I know it seems like a copout but he's always done things that few others.

He was Rukenshin before the patch AND after the patch. For the most part the "lol but he's Rukenshin" argument is invalid.

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

To the person talking about increased crit rate / TA proc rate for THF, I agree that'll do it, but then please give us Subtle Blow cause I'm sick of having the worst Damage done:TP given ratio.

[Therin]

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

Ruke was always smashing people and his gear isn't AH by any stretch of imagination. He's ruke. I don't think people are whining that somebody with impeccable gear and a relic can smash face... I'm talking average AH 2hers beating pimped 1hers.

He's doing 40% more damage than pre-patch using the exact same gear. I think you missed that part. He was already winning the parse; now he is winning by a stupidly high margin.

A relic should outparse a Ridill. >_> Seriously.

Until an outstanding number of parses with BB MNKs and Ridill WARs vs. Onimaru SAMs and Balin's Sword DRKs (and the two-handers winning) start flaring up then you can all stop the fucking whining bullshit. A good Ridill WAR still outdoes anything but the absolute strongest DRK or SAM (and takes less MP to support) so any whining from Ridill-wielding WARs is therefore utterly retarded.

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

YOU'RE A FUCKING THIEF.

[NynJa]

You are a thf, not a nin. Don't let your AF2 name fool you. Also, you do get the assasin attribute as being able to sneak behind a mob and do burst damage. It is just that your DoT is just too bad that even the best burst damage won't help you get in a fight.

Sorry, I was at work...so I couldnt rape this fucker in the ass sooner.


If THF dot is so bad, then explain to me this:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4038/jolow8.jpg
Evett: lolrng
Zayin: kraken drk swapped in and out
Nynja: mandau thf/nin or war, forget SJ
Aoshiz: Gungnir drg
Jayy: lolrng
Xno: other kraken drk swapped in and out
Drini: SAM

How come my melee : WS damage ratio is close to 1:1 where as every one elses is like 1:2-5 (not counting the drks)



JoL shouldnt count ? fine
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7922/feb10up4.jpg
Nynja: Mandau thf/nin
Aoshiz: gungnir drg
Briste: was probably on nin
Enolaz: mnk/something

Once again, look at the melee:WS dmg ratio, and total melee damage (and total WS damage for that matter).

[RKenshin]

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

I don't know where people thought that I was parsing against Lhexh but I've seen a few people mention it now and this is not true.

I've only parsed against pickup PT jobs thusfar, and all of which were using some form of a 2h weapon minus one WAR that was using Axe/Axe. I have not parsed against any decked out DDs yet, using a 2h weapon or a 1h weapon.

[Eaglestrike]

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

YOU'RE A FUCKING THIEF.

Ok, so what is my job supposed to do again?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

He was Rukenshin before the patch AND after the patch. For the most part the "lol but he's Rukenshin" argument is invalid.

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

To the person talking about increased crit rate / TA proc rate for THF, I agree that'll do it, but then please give us Subtle Blow cause I'm sick of having the worst Damage done:TP given ratio.

Honestly, I do think THF came out worse than NIN MNK or WAR.

BTW, were BB MNKs and Ridill WARs beating you before? Neither of those are relics.

[Darkevolution]

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

YOU'RE A FUCKING THIEF.

Ok, so what is my job supposed to do again?

DoT and crit hit, unless it changed in the past 3 days... I dunno what ppl are thinking

[aurik]

He was Rukenshin before the patch AND after the patch. For the most part the "lol but he's Rukenshin" argument is invalid.

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

To the person talking about increased crit rate / TA proc rate for THF, I agree that'll do it, but then please give us Subtle Blow cause I'm sick of having the worst Damage done:TP given ratio.

Honestly, I do think THF came out worse than NIN MNK or WAR.

BTW, were BB MNKs and Ridill WARs beating you before? Neither of those are relics.

Ridill is (was) WAR relic. And MNK is an even more pure DD than THF (lacking any hate control JT), so deserves to be a bit more proficient at pure DD.

[Coldone]

You are a thf, not a nin. Don't let your AF2 name fool you. Also, you do get the assasin attribute as being able to sneak behind a mob and do burst damage. It is just that your DoT is just too bad that even the best burst damage won't help you get in a fight.

Sorry, I was at work...so I couldnt rape this fucker in the ass sooner.


If THF dot is so bad, then explain to me this:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4038/jolow8.jpg
Evett: lolrng
Zayin: kraken drk swapped in and out
Nynja: mandau thf/nin or war, forget SJ
Aoshiz: Gungnir drg
Jayy: lolrng
Xno: other kraken drk swapped in and out
Drini: SAM

How come my melee : WS damage ratio is close to 1:1 where as every one elses is like 1:2-5 (not counting the drks)



JoL shouldnt count ? fine
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7922/feb10up4.jpg
Nynja: Mandau thf/nin
Aoshiz: gungnir drg
Briste: was probably on nin
Enolaz: mnk/something

Once again, look at the melee:WS dmg ratio, and total melee damage (and total WS damage for that matter).

Cause all thfs have Mandaus...

[NynJa]

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

Ruke was always smashing people and his gear isn't AH by any stretch of imagination. He's ruke. I don't think people are whining that somebody with impeccable gear and a relic can smash face... I'm talking average AH 2hers beating pimped 1hers.

He's doing 40% more damage than pre-patch using the exact same gear. I think you missed that part. He was already winning the parse; now he is winning by a stupidly high margin.

He's Rukenshin

I know it seems like a copout but he's always done things that few others.

SO FUCKING WHAT
Contrary to you believe from treating him like a fucking god, he is still constricted to the SAME lines of code that govern all our characters.


The above wasnt a negative comment towards Ruke if he took it as one.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

Ruke was always smashing people and his gear isn't AH by any stretch of imagination. He's ruke. I don't think people are whining that somebody with impeccable gear and a relic can smash face... I'm talking average AH 2hers beating pimped 1hers.

He's doing 40% more damage than pre-patch using the exact same gear. I think you missed that part. He was already winning the parse; now he is winning by a stupidly high margin.

He's Rukenshin

I know it seems like a copout but he's always done things that few others.

SO FUCKING WHAT
Contrary to you believe from treating him like a fucking god, he is still constricted to the SAME lines of code that govern all our characters.

Actually, my point is he generally just does better than anybody else and, in general, it seems like his results are not what happens to most people for most things.

I mostly just want more info, more parses.

[Therin]

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

YOU'RE A FUCKING THIEF.

Ok, so what is my job supposed to do again?

What I meant was that you're on a job that can sub NIN and not be a gimp and that gives you ten times the survivability of a DRK. In order for a DRK to parse like that they have to use Souleater consistently, and that rapes MP. You have no right to complain because you can fill a party a slot (especially on birds) and parse nearly equally with a Ridill WAR and take even less MP - a DRK should be able to do more damage than a THF, by definition, but in order to do so they damn near kill themselves. Trust me, I know this - I've outparsed many THFs and even a Ridill WAR on occasion, but I'll be the first to admit than in doing so it was more destructive for the EXP/hour than constructive, because a DRK who's making liberal use of Souleater is the biggest MP sponge in the game.

[megabyte]

Stop crying and get over it. Just be glad SE changed from how they used to be and didn't nerf the shit out of all the 1handers. Boosts = Good, Nerf = bad.

[Eaglestrike]

He was Rukenshin before the patch AND after the patch. For the most part the "lol but he's Rukenshin" argument is invalid.

My last merit party a non-apoc drk/sam was a little under 10% behind me in overall damage(33% to 36%). I have relic. If he is now doing just 20% more damage a non-relic is now beating me by a fair margin, if it's 30% he's destroying me, if 40%...? That's far from balanced, meaning something needs changing.

To the person talking about increased crit rate / TA proc rate for THF, I agree that'll do it, but then please give us Subtle Blow cause I'm sick of having the worst Damage done:TP given ratio.

Honestly, I do think THF came out worse than NIN MNK or WAR.

BTW, were BB MNKs and Ridill WARs beating you before? Neither of those are relics.

I beat everyone I parsed, but only ever against a few BB MNK's and Ridill WARs, which I doubt can compare to the pimped out ones that people on here generally know. But my problem isn't that my relic is weaker than a non-relic, it's my relic getting dominated by one. I don't believe THF should be the best DD ever, but I do want my THF with the gear I work to obtain and knowledge I have of the game to be able to beat all but similar people playing other jobs. I know I add some extra utility to situations and I do have an advantage over most other jobs with things like solo-ability, so I don't expect to be the #1 DD, but I want to be close. I don't think I can be close anymore.

What I meant was that you're on a job that can sub NIN and not be a gimp and that gives you ten times the survivability of a DRK. In order for a DRK to parse like that they have to use Souleater consistently, and that rapes MP. You have no right to complain because you can fill a party a slot (especially on birds) and parse nearly equally with a Ridill WAR and take even less MP - a DRK should be able to do more damage than a THF, by definition, but in order to do so they damn near kill themselves. Trust me, I know this - I've outparsed many THFs and even a Ridill WAR, but I'll be the first to admit than in doing so it was more destructive for the EXP/hour than constructive, because a DRK who's making liberal use of Souleater is the biggest MP sponge in the game.

Right, I get that. Like I said above, I don't want to be at the top, but I don't want to feel completely inferior because the gap is so huge. I know my job has added utility, and is one of the safest jobs in the game, if I lose a parse I will always rationalize to myself about that. But I was already pretty weak on HNM's, so meripo was my "place to shine" and I just went to HNM's to do a little bit of DMG and for TH. My proposed 'fix' to THF would increase THF's damage in both meripo and HNM, but increase damage on HNM the most (a crit does wonders for us since we're so often under 1.0 pDIF).

[Turambar]

a bunch of parse results

Proof that this patch was needed: There's no reason a Mandau THF should out-parse a Gungnir DRG by that much, nor is it reasonable for a non-Kikoku Ninja to be so close to a Gungnir DRG. 2 relic weapons should be at least remotely comparable in overall damage, and both of them should blow a Senjuinrikio user out of the water.

Would it be possible for you to get that same group together for a post-patch-parse? It would be interesting to see where you all stand now.

[NynJa]

Who the hell doesnt have a 2boxable acct these days ?

I bring Vermy out with me wherever I go pretty much. If I lvled drk, I'd be souleatering every 6 minutes and just using my mule to curebomb myself.