Will They Fix It?

[aurik]

Actually, my point is he generally just does better than anybody else and, in general, it seems like his results are not what happens to most people for most things.

I mostly just want more info, more parses.

40% of a lower initial number is still going to be a 40%, and plenty enough to make even mediocre sams top of the heap in all but the most elite parties.

[Plow]

Yeah, SE, please balance the classes around every party having a PL no matter what. It will make perfect sense to 99.9999% of players.

[Croaker]

JoL shouldnt count ? fine
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7922/feb10up4.jpg
Nynja: Mandau thf/nin
Aoshiz: gungnir drg
Briste: was probably on nin
Enolaz: mnk/something

Once again, look at the melee:WS dmg ratio, and total melee damage (and total WS damage for that matter).

Was this before or after the patch?

If after, where is a link to a working parser? I am amazed the DRG isn't beating you.

Mandau THF has always been amazing.

[levish]

Who the hell doesnt have a 2boxable acct these days ?

I bring Vermy out with me wherever I go pretty much. If I lvled drk, I'd be souleatering every 6 minutes and just using my mule to curebomb myself.

I hope you are joking or I'm being whooshed

[NynJa]

Yeah, SE, please balance the classes around every party having a PL no matter what. It will make perfect sense to 99.9999% of players.

well fuck, what do you want me to reply to "I CANT SPAM MY BEST DMG DEALING ABILITY WTF HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO COMPETE". What happens to any other job who play stupid and spam their biggest hate/best damage dealing abilities ??

[Plow]

Yeah, SE, please balance the classes around every party having a PL no matter what. It will make perfect sense to 99.9999% of players.

well fuck, what do you want me to reply to "I CANT SPAM MY BEST DMG DEALING ABILITY WTF HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO COMPETE". What happens to any other job who play stupid and spam their biggest hate/best damage dealing abilities ??

yes because thf, war, mnk, with nin sub or nin itself totally have to worry about killing themselves to put out the most damage they can



btw guys, remeber when I said this 2 pages ago?

SUMMONER DMG SHOULD BE MAAAAAASSSSSSIIIIIIVVVVVVEEEEEELLLLLLLLYYYYYYY buffed for merits.




See how you don't give a fuck about the classes that are behind you, only those in your way?

Didn't think so.

[NynJa]

btw guys, remeber when I said this 2 pages ago?

SUMMONER DMG SHOULD BE MAAAAAASSSSSSIIIIIIVVVVVVEEEEEELLLLLLLLYYYYYYY buffed for merits.




See how you don't give a fuck about the classes that are behind you, only those in your way?

Didn't think so.

just like "2H DMG NEEDS TO BE MASSSSIVELY BUFFED", and look what happened.


May i ask whats stopping drks from subbing nin ? rangers used to do it. Sam's dont need to do it due to seigan/3e. drg's dont need to due to enmity reducing/negating jumps. Thieves are not required to if they opt to step back their damage and just stick to TA WS, or killshot SA WS.

[Croaker]

A patch was needed.

This patch wasn't needed.

It seems that some people are equating "I don't like this patch" to "There shouldn't have been a patch". This isn't true.

I think EVERYONE agrees that 2 handed weapons needed a boost to catch up with the performance of 1 handed weapons. What they needed was maybe..
2 STR = 1 Attack ---> 2 STR = 1.2 Attack
This would have closed the gap and given people the option of picking a weapon that fit their play style. Instead they make almost every 1 handed weapon in the game obsolete.

Seriously, who is going to single wield anymore if given the option?

[Ryko]

Who here has actually partied with an AH 2h wielder as a pimped out THF, NIN, or MNK and gotten outdamaged?

Got quiet

Seriously

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...828_230834.png

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...828_230637.png
Seriously both of you need to shut the hell up, and no I didn't get outdamaged on WAR/NIN/MNK because I was on DRG in that screen. There is no reason for allatards to be dropping 2k on anything. Before you go "Well he has 4 songs!" 2 of them are marches (See: Do NOTHING for weapon skill damage) and he ate a meat jerky.

This update was greatly overdone, some aspects need to be changed back, including the 2.4 pDIF cap on at least 1 handed jobs and the DEX conversion. They want to obsolete an entire 2-3 subjobs? So be it, they want to obsolete crit builds or criting at all on anything short of an HNM? So be it, they want to obsolete food and good gear choices? You and your gimp empowering mindset can straight up go fuck yourselves. If you disagree, you're wrong. If you disagree with me saying you're wrong, guess what? You're wrong again.

[Nameless]

You are a thf, not a nin. Don't let your AF2 name fool you. Also, you do get the assasin attribute as being able to sneak behind a mob and do burst damage. It is just that your DoT is just too bad that even the best burst damage won't help you get in a fight.

Sorry, I was at work...so I couldnt rape this fucker in the ass sooner.


If THF dot is so bad, then explain to me this:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4038/jolow8.jpg
Evett: lolrng
Zayin: kraken drk swapped in and out
Nynja: mandau thf/nin or war, forget SJ
Aoshiz: Gungnir drg
Jayy: lolrng
Xno: other kraken drk swapped in and out
Drini: SAM

How come my melee : WS damage ratio is close to 1:1 where as every one elses is like 1:2-5 (not counting the drks)



JoL shouldnt count ? fine
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7922/feb10up4.jpg
Nynja: Mandau thf/nin
Aoshiz: gungnir drg
Briste: was probably on nin
Enolaz: mnk/something

Once again, look at the melee:WS dmg ratio, and total melee damage (and total WS damage for that matter).

Not exactly sure what you are trying to prove here, and not sure if you are thinking reversed but all I see is that the relic drg melee vs WS is 1:1 and yours is 2:1. For JoL the drg was likely doing meditate and jump in to WS so the WS:Melee was 2-5:1, but as the exp parser clearly showed that all other melees are 1:1 only you are 1:2.

So I guess you are trying to say that your DoT is better than alot of pure DDs and should therefore be used more instead of just for spike damage? So if your DoT is that good then what are you THFs complaining about the update? not exact sure what the point of your post is for but I for one think THF is perfectly balanced (which as your parser and post suggested, that you are in par with everyone else, and in other words you don't think THF need a boost either. /highfive). So I am not sure what your point is.

On a side note. You do realize that your JA SATA regular hits are counted as melee right? So in my original post saying that THF do bad DoT and good burst, that burst incluses SATA regular hits and assasin and all that craps. Taken out those and your mandau; your DoT worth nothing.

Again, thf is garbage DoT unless you have mandau. Not sure what your point is.

[Sendra]

Again, thf is garbage DoT unless you have mandau. Not sure what your point is.

Are you retarded? Or do all THFs you party with melee in DEX or something?

[kuronosan]

Would it help if the attack curve was changed so that those with low attack/STR gear and lower damage weapons couldn't hit the top damage tier as frequently?

It seems to me that the real problem isn't the STR, it's the accuracy.

[Nameless]

Again, thf is garbage DoT unless you have mandau. Not sure what your point is.

Are you retarded? Or do all THFs you party with melee in DEX or something?

So what do you suggest? That your THF is superior in DoT and yet you guys can do 1.5k DE. So what are you crying about regarding the update? You guys aren't good enough?

[Sendra]

Again, thf is garbage DoT unless you have mandau. Not sure what your point is.

Are you retarded? Or do all THFs you party with melee in DEX or something?

So what do you suggest? That your THF is superior in DoT and yet you guys can do 1.5k DE. So what are you crying about regarding the update? You guys aren't good enough?

THFs are most likely sad for the same reason MNKs, and to a lesser degree, NINs are. They're being obsoleted as damage dealers, and don't have much to fall back on, considering any retard /THF can plant hate on the tank, which isn't needed too often anyhow.

[Eaglestrike]

Again, thf is garbage DoT unless you have mandau. Not sure what your point is.

Are you retarded? Or do all THFs you party with melee in DEX or something?

So what do you suggest? That your THF is superior in DoT and yet you guys can do 1.5k DE. So what are you crying about regarding the update? You guys aren't good enough?

THF *was* fine. Now since half the other jobs jumped ahead, it's not anymore. Best THF's were just under the best WAR's and MNK's, but now they're under the best WAR's and MNK's AND DRK's, DRG's and SAM's.

[Nameless]

Again, thf is garbage DoT unless you have mandau. Not sure what your point is.

Are you retarded? Or do all THFs you party with melee in DEX or something?

So what do you suggest? That your THF is superior in DoT and yet you guys can do 1.5k DE. So what are you crying about regarding the update? You guys aren't good enough?

THFs are most likely sad for the same reason MNKs, and to a lesser degree, NINs are. They're being obsoleted as damage dealers, and don't have much to fall back on, considering any retard /THF can plant hate on the tank, which isn't needed too often anyhow.

So check out my original post. Didn't the update make you thfs DoT in comparison to Drk, Drg, War, Sam garbage as oppose to where it was decent before? As far as I know you guys are still capable of dealing 2k mercy stroke or whatever those DE or SB damage you guy can do. Was I wrong that all the sudden Thf lost an edge in DoT department after the update so they are crying, not because the fact that their WS got nerf?

Try to read my original post before you post any more personal attack towards me.

I was solely reply to the guy who called me a fucker and brought no point to begin with. If you note, he said "If Thf DoT is so bad, check out these parsers". So he thinks Thf Dot is still execellent after the update, which I am against it. All you guys are just enhancing the point I was trying to make.

[RKenshin]

Actually, my point is he generally just does better than anybody else and, in general, it seems like his results are not what happens to most people for most things.

I mostly just want more info, more parses.

40% of a lower initial number is still going to be a 40%, and plenty enough to make even mediocre sams top of the heap in all but the most elite parties.

Actually since we don't have much of anyone comparing decked out MNKs+Rid WARs to 2h users currently... I have a parse to offer up from my parse folder that I think could help put some slightly realistic ranges on the improvements this patch offered.

This PT was exactly one year ago from today ironically, and the setup was a fully equipped/meritted WAR/NIN with Rid (myself), a MNK/NIN with full merits/Spharai and good gear (could use more acc), a DRG/WAR with full merits/great gear, and an DRK/WAR with full merits/great gear. The DRK is the black block, the MNK is the orange block, the DRG is the blue block. The PT lasted for about 2 hours and took place in Mamook.
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1497/w ... rk3cb5.jpg

Now, these are the total damage numbers from the parse:
WAR: 320,219
MNK: 278,300
DRK: 182,635
DRG: 149,288 + 14,446 (Wyvern)

Using the 40% increase as a basis for the approximate increase this update provided in melee/WS damage, we can adjust the above values into the following:
(changed my mind (/lazy) and just increasing total damage by 40% rather than increasing damage per hit/WS damage by 40% and multipling it by the swing#/WS# for a change in melee/WS damage, so these numbers are slightly higher than they should be)

WAR: 320,219
MNK: 278,300
DRK: 255,689
DRG: 209,003 + 14,446(Wyvern)

With that parse as a reference and using a 40% increase in damage per hit/WS damage as an approximation of the increase in damage 2h DDs experience from this update... This update doesn't seem as unbalanced as it would appear to be for well-equipped DRKs/DRGs vs decked WARs/MNKs.

Take it all with a grain of salt though since there are obvious flaws in this process and logic, like the fact extra damage doesn't just appear in the parse without taking damage away from other DDs. However I think this is a good point of reference in general until we get some similar parse comparisons.

But, even adjusting it a little bit... I generated 132,769 extra damage by adding 40% to the DRG's and DRK's damage. So if I take away 130,000 damage from the MNK and WAR evenly and 2,769 from the Wyvern (to make it simple!) it'll look like this:

WAR: 255,219
MNK: 213,300
DRK: 255,689
DRG: 209,003 + 11,677 (Wyvern)

And that probably looks more realistic as far as what a comparison right now would look like. But again take it as you will, this isn't anywhere near as good as someone actually going out and parsing it. However if these results are realistic then this isn't really as bad as it's being made out to be.

[Not Kuno]

Seriously both of you need to shut the hell up, and no I didn't get outdamaged on WAR/NIN/MNK because I was on DRG in that screen. There is no reason for allatards to be dropping 2k on anything. Before you go "Well he has 4 songs!" 2 of them are marches (See: Do NOTHING for weapon skill damage) and he ate a meat jerky.

This update was greatly overdone, some aspects need to be changed back, including the 2.4 pDIF cap on at least 1 handed jobs and the DEX conversion. They want to obsolete an entire 2-3 subjobs? So be it, they want to obsolete crit builds or criting at all on anything short of an HNM? So be it, they want to obsolete food and good gear choices? You and your gimp empowering mindset can straight up go fuck yourselves. If you disagree, you're wrong. If you disagree with me saying you're wrong, guess what? You're wrong again.

Normally me and Ryko don't agree with alot but I agree with this 100%. Everyone agreed that 2h needed a boost. This is just insane. And whoever said a few pages back "Well any boost is good its nerf that are bad" or some crap.. what if they made stone 1 and fire 1 do 3000 damage each? Sure it's a boost but when they boost a certain aspect to such a huge degree everyone else gets nerfed. You can't have something like Ryko's screenshot happening because that is just completely broken. Remove the dex and pdif thing and it'll be fine again.

[aurik]

So check out my original post. Didn't the update make you thfs DoT in comparison to Drk, Drg, War, Sam garbage as oppose to where it was decent before? As far as I know you guys are still capable of dealing 2k mercy stroke or whatever those DE or SB damage you guy can do. Was I wrong that all the sudden Thf lost an edge in DoT appartment after the update so they are crying, not because the fact that their WS got nerf?

Uh, because Drk and Sam were already good outside of merits while Thf is and always has been the bitch job at HNM. Now Thf can be the bitch job everywhere!

[Ryko]

Didn't the update make you thfs DoT in comparison to Drk, Drg, War, Sam garbage as oppose to where it was decent before?

When one side loses 16% off the high end and the other side gains 25% on the high end and can reliaibly reach it? Duh? All you people that spout shit about numbers you didn't understand sure are good at ignoring them when it's convenient.