Will They Fix It?

[RKenshin]

I know what the definition is and what you were saying about it... I meant the question more like, I don't understand how you feel it's a thankless ability? Maybe it's different for other people but we set out to have every MNK merit and able to use Penance in a rotation with the other MNKs, with it being a rather important part of most of our strategies, which I don't find to be something that is commonly done for what you said is a thankless ability. But I suppose it depends on the strategies you use.

[Fryte]

New rule: If your argument is based on someone who subbed warrior and got some lucky WS's off on some lesser colibri, go home.

[docvicious]

I certainly hope they don't fix any of it, It is perfectly fine the way it is now. If anything should change its only the dex~>Acc and thats it.

[spooky]

I like how sience we've had the 'Current know issues' acouncment we've gone from "Waaa waaa THF waaaaawwaawaaaaaaaaaa."

to:

I like thf the way it is. It's not bad at all, I can solo a lot of stuff, and merit, and am also useful in hnm fights

So glad to be leveling DRK right now. ^.^

[Plow]

I can't guarantee it but I'm 99% positive those numbers from the pld were 300tp with double attacks.


There's absolutely no doubt it was 300 tp, but if it didn't double attack for a pld on merit mobs that would probably be about a 3.5x improvement over before. Pretty sure the mods would have had to change for that, and you'd have drk doing 3k+ on hnm pretty consistently.

[layoneil]

I know what the definition is and what you were saying about it... I meant the question more like, I don't understand how you feel it's a thankless ability?

the average person won't attribute the mob WSing less to the MNK.

just like the average person attributes most damage to the melee jobs when it would never be possible without the BRDs and CORs, etc.

[Projekt.Ein]

I personally think it's funny that people are complaining about how a DMG:90+ weapon can FINALLY outdamage a DMG:49 weapon.

Silly bitches, leave the 2handers alone, this shit is perfect for them. Aww you can't do a 1-2k+ WS on HNM's like SAM or DRK? Cry more, fags. Throw more Blms on shit if you're distraught about the update.


Anyways, I'm happy I don't have to come WAR or NIN to shit anymore, the update was pure win.

[Sasarai]

I personally think it's funny that people are complaining about how a DMG:90+ weapon can FINALLY outdamage a DMG:49 weapon.

So why can a DMG:90+ Weapon now outdamage a DMG:120+ Weapon? Logic is a bitch isn't it.

Silly bitches, leave the 2handers alone, this shit is perfect for them. Aww you can't do a 1-2k+ WS on HNM's like SAM or DRK? Cry more, fags. Throw more Blms on shit if you're distraught about the update.

I forsee a "fruity" animated avatar and new title in your future.

[Max™]

Had a BB Mnk/War come join a 2h Burn with us last night.

When you compare Mnk/Nin to this update, yeah, it falls behind, Mnk/War, his WSes were comparing (except to the silly ass Drg's doing 1.3~1.6k Penta's to Imps randomly) but he was definitely not far behind in per fist Damage (except he swung a hell of alot faster than we do) so as Naga pointed out, Without Buffs, against T-IT, Mnk/War still kicks some serious ass.

[Ddong]

I personally think it's funny that people are complaining about how a DMG:90+ weapon can FINALLY outdamage a DMG:49 weapon.

So why can a DMG:90+ Weapon now outdamage a DMG:120+ Weapon? Logic is a bitch isn't it.


[quote:fc361]Silly bitches, leave the 2handers alone, this shit is perfect for them. Aww you can't do a 1-2k+ WS on HNM's like SAM or DRK? Cry more, fags. Throw more Blms on shit if you're distraught about the update.

I forsee a "fruity" animated avatar and new title in your future.[/quote:fc361]


What weapon has DMG:120+ ???????????????????????

[Amele]

most rangers are sporting 120+ D, when you combine the ammo and the (x-)bow/gun.

I think, the simplest solution here is to simply rollback all the ranged changes they made back in 2004/5 (I have to admit I don't remember the exact date of the nerf, since I wasn't playing the job then.) and consider buffing the weaponskills. (although how you'd go about this without making them silly I don't know - maybe just a better WSC mod? fTP is already through the roof on several of them.)

adding some way for haste to matter on ranged attacks might help too. (although ranged attacks are 'kind of' hasted already)

[LD]

stuff

So accuracy and crits should be irrelevant?

Well gee, what do you think? I didn't think to include the accuracy changes for that parse but that's way too complicated to delve into. Which again is why I made a point to say that the post can be taken with a grain of salt multiple times. And really if you want to see the results from attempting to show that then you're more than welcome to do the math yourself as all it consists of is simple middle school math.

Regardless, as Ryko pointed out I do think the 1 DEX = 1 Acc shouldn't be included. Getting rid of that would go a long way to making this much more fair and balanced, as opposed to how overpowered I believe it to be now.

And, I don't see how I failed to include the damage from critical hits. I added 40% to the overall damage total (which includes critical hits), and nothing about this update made 2h weapons more likely to land critical hits.

In any case, I would like you to try to define the DRG & DRK's 'great gear.'

I'd like to think I wouldn't have to define what exactly I would qualify as gear choices that are above average but use your imagination, it's really not difficult to figure out. I didn't say it was the best gear because it simply wasn't, but short of Sniper+1s/Adaman Hauberk/Speed Belts both the DRG and DRK had the ideal choices for gear (almost the same exact gear I have on DRK and would have as a 75 DRG at the time of the parse). I don't feel like listing every gear piece but just take me word for it, and yes I do have their exact gear setup.

And, since it would appear you already chose to discredit the results as being any kind of useful, it doesn't even matter any more.

This is a War of Information and the burden of proof is on those who provide it. If you're putting yourself out there, you are open to any and all scrutiny. You are not immune to this and I'm not going to tip-toe around an issue just because you're seen as a God around here, even if I'm wrong. I did not discredit your results, that’s impossible for me. I questioned them, and I have every right to do so on anything and with anyone, just as you have a right to attack my lack of information, even though I was asking a perfectly reasonable question. As long as it is valid and for the purpose of clarity, I can do whatever the Hell I want.

From all that I've seen, if it jibes with my opinion or not, there is a difference in potential. Whether pDIF was capped or if it was always around 2.0, it was definitely normalized. A 2H will not automatically hit the cap, but he has the ability, because even without the DEX:Acc conversion, he will always get more bang for his buck than a 1H. Maybe it should be this way, but I don’t think the discrepancy should be as large. Even with DEX:Acc on gear, 2.4-2.8 would be high enough to give 2Hs more natural power while still restraining them. Of course, this is my opinion and I have very little to back it up other than what I have learned and how I interpret it. However, this isn’t as cut & dry as some people make it seem.

[Hankthetank]

There is a difference. It's high unlikely that a PLD will have GSword merits (but maybe likely after this update). There is a 19 skill in difference between the two along with 4 attack up traits. So that is 19 + 48 = 67 atk difference right off the bat not to mention the extra acc. 2k on some very meh geared pld is absurd.

In this vein I broke out my Paladin last night. This is Pld/War with berserk up no food. If someone wants to confirm my math I would appreciate it. The gear is identical for both weapons except for one earring. Sword wore a Suppa and Great Sword wore a Ethereal.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...k/GsdVsPld.png

But it looks like dispite a 47 Skill level disparity between the two weapons Great Sword is still ahead of sword in terms of Atk and only slightly lagging in the Acc department.

Sincerely,
Hankthetank

[RKenshin]

This is a War of Information and the burden of proof is on those who provide it. If you're putting yourself out there, you are open to any and all scrutiny. You are not immune to this and I'm not going to tip-toe around an issue just because you're seen as a God around here, even if I'm wrong. I did not discredit your results, that’s impossible for me. I questioned them, and I have every right to do so on anything and with anyone, just as you have a right to attack my lack of information, even though I was asking a perfectly reasonable question. As long as it is valid and for the purpose of clarity, I can do whatever the Hell I want.

This isn't news to me, I even made it clear on multiple occasions that all of that information could be taken with a grain of salt and if there was anything wrong people could feel free to correct it.

But fuck if you're going to point out a flaw you could show some decency and do it in a little less of an asshole manner. Either that or accept the fact you deserved a defensive retort. But a cocky response over me forgetting one aspect in my test is uncalled for... And it doesn't matter who or what people think I am or who anyone else is in a similar situation, nothing justifies coming off as an asshole for no reason when all I or someone else is doing is trying to provide some kind of a realistic situation for comparison because we have nearly jack shit for anything else on this board so far.

A simple heads up over forgetting to include accuracy would be more than sufficient for anyone regardless of how 'good or bad' their reputation is, and it wouldn't have been a problem. Not a sarcastic attack of 'So accuracy shouldn't matter?' as I seriously doubt anyone would ask that kind of question hoping for a response of anything other than yes. That's why I responded in such a defensive matter; you provoked it.

[Beckwin]

I took pld/war with algol and 4/5 heca to MJSP earlier and was cranking out spinning slashes with a low of about 800 and a high of around 1350, with one brd and eating hedgehog pie. Basically, it was tachi: gekko but I never seemed to proc DA/TA. On drk/sam the night before I only managed a 1850 300% ground strikeon colibri >.> but I guess that has to do with not getting a DA proc and possibly less attack (can't remember if I had LR up or not).

[Lordwafik]

Question, dunno anything bout math at all so that's a disclaimer, but,

Considering we 1handers are capped at 2.0 pdif(right?) on anything, and for some reason monsters are also capped at 2.0 for some glitchy reason, what's the odds that this is just a giant bug rather than an implemented feature of the game? Do monsters get counted as having a 1 handed weapon, if so, are they for some reason getting calculated as players are? etc.

I mean aside from ruining how much a mob can hit for, they ruined nuke damage too from mobs, etc, so I'm thinking it's a glitch rather than what was planned.

[Hapernack]

Silly bitches, leave the 2handers alone, this shit is perfect for them. Aww you can't do a 1-2k+ WS on HNM's like SAM or DRK? Cry more, fags. Throw more Blms on shit if you're distraught about the update.

The cursing and name-calling totally makes your arguement more meaningful. If you can't see how the update broke things (with new reports of resists down, interruptions up, and damage resist waaaaay up) then quite frankly you don't even deserve to be on the bottom rung of the alla posterboards much less posting your drivel here.

[Eaglestrike]

Question, dunno anything bout math at all so that's a disclaimer, but,

Considering we 1handers are capped at 2.0 pdif(right?) on anything, and for some reason monsters are also capped at 2.0 for some glitchy reason, what's the odds that this is just a giant bug rather than an implemented feature of the game? Do monsters get counted as having a 1 handed weapon, if so, are they for some reason getting calculated as players are? etc.

I mean aside from ruining how much a mob can hit for, they ruined nuke damage too from mobs, etc, so I'm thinking it's a glitch rather than what was planned.

I'd prefer some of it to be a glitch (mob damage/resists) but not all of it. Honestly I have no problem with 1H at the 2.0 cap and 2H at the 3.0 cap, what I'd like to see to compensate is a large increase to critical hit rate for 1H weapons. This would make the weapon types a bit different in that 2H can be strong sustained damage and 1H will be a bit more streaky but jumps between more DoT and less DoT.

As it stands now just about every melee DD focuses on the exact same stats and is played in a similar manner, with small differences if you're a 2H user going for 6 hit setup and such. 2H users can focus on STR/Attack and 1H users can focus on Crit/haste. It would take some time but I believe it would be possible to find a good balance between the setups, meaning any job can work for a normal party and you'd focus on taking certain jobs depending on your camp. Remember when people were crazy about Lufaise and obsessed over THF/RNG/DRG? Well hopefully in WotG they can bring a new bones camp, make a decent camp of Qutrub-like mobs with extra SC damage for slashers (who tend to spam ws's now) etc. and then bring DRG/RNG/THF onto similar grounds with each other so a Colibri party works well too. Make them all similar in overall xp/hour and then the argument won't be DW vs 2H but piercing vs slashing vs blunt, with the slashing camp being an ok middle ground for all damage types too.

[ringthree]

Question, dunno anything bout math at all so that's a disclaimer, but,

Considering we 1handers are capped at 2.0 pdif(right?) on anything, and for some reason monsters are also capped at 2.0 for some glitchy reason, what's the odds that this is just a giant bug rather than an implemented feature of the game? Do monsters get counted as having a 1 handed weapon, if so, are they for some reason getting calculated as players are? etc.

I mean aside from ruining how much a mob can hit for, they ruined nuke damage too from mobs, etc, so I'm thinking it's a glitch rather than what was planned.

This is exactly what I believe it is, there is some universal problem with the pDIF across the board. 1h/2h/mob whatever.

I posted this complete conjecture somewhere else, but my guess is there is one universal damage formula for the game, just with dependent actions for different scenarios, and at some basic level (pDIF) that formula is bugged right now. And when they fix it, it will fix all the issues we are seeing right now.

[Scar]

Actually, my point is he generally just does better than anybody else and, in general, it seems like his results are not what happens to most people for most things.

I mostly just want more info, more parses.

40% of a lower initial number is still going to be a 40%, and plenty enough to make even mediocre sams top of the heap in all but the most elite parties.

I think you missed this post here-

If you're looking for a parse showing a 2her smashing a previously elite DD, look at Ruke's recent parses against Lhexh, where he averaged 264 a swing and on the whole did 40% more damage than before.

Spoiler: a well-played Samano was already stronger than ridill war in merit.

I don't know where people thought that I was parsing against Lhexh but I've seen a few people mention it now and this is not true.

I've only parsed against pickup PT jobs thusfar, and all of which were using some form of a 2h weapon minus one WAR that was using Axe/Axe. I have not parsed against any decked out DDs yet, using a 2h weapon or a 1h weapon.

Let's see if he comes out 40% ahead of Lhexh's Ridill WAR and you'll have a more convincing point.

I agree there are some adjustments that need to be made, but I don't think gimp 2-handers are outparsing fully merited 1-handers even now. After those needed adjustments are made, the fully merited 1-handers aren't going to be beating them by 15% or more now, but is that really so bad?

As far as that screenshot from Ryko, that's crazy an AH DRG on Meat Jerky is hitting those kinds of numbers.

This update was greatly overdone, some aspects need to be changed back, including the 2.4 pDIF cap on at least 1 handed jobs and the DEX conversion. They want to obsolete an entire 2-3 subjobs? So be it, they want to obsolete crit builds or criting at all on anything short of an HNM? So be it, they want to obsolete food and good gear choices? You and your gimp empowering mindset can straight up go fuck yourselves.

Agreed 100% with this.

Question- Did that Akimura guy outparse your DRG?