Will They Fix It?

[Plow]

I was just talking about counter, not counterstance.

mnk also has much higher base hp, access to all kinds of regen shit that's actually useful, and the evasion really matters once you get on anything over easy prey.

Counter without Counterstance is like 20% unless you're gearing for Counter, in which case lol, you're gearing for counter. Which might not actually be a problem if you're at or near the 126 damage cap I bet you forgot about.

Also, what "useful regen gear"? Regen from gear is 1/tick, and the most useful regen armor I can think of that's MNK-exclusive would be the AF2 body, for resting.

20% is more hits than miss me on its own without utsusemi. Dread spikes is the only thing that even keeps it competitive now, and screw waiting 3 minutes to fight the next mob between every freaking fight. As far as the regen stuff goes I'm not sure what all there is other than the af2 body, I just remember alma having like 5hp/tic or more in his solo gear.

RNG can't solo? Excuse me? They have access to all the bolts drk has acess too, and they will land them extremely reliably. They also do their damage from range, opening up a whole new can of worms... you know you liked that pun.

Mobs don't politely sit still at optimum damage range. While a mob being directly in your face might be a boon if you're just trying to land a status bolt, it fucking sucks if you're trying to do damage. Plus RNG defense, evasion, and HP are the gold standard in awful.

It's all about the bolts. It's pretty damn easy for a good ranger to keep stuff at bay for a long time. A drk can as well, but can't put out nearly the dmg in the process. Also, rng dmg is pretty damn good these days with many of the best camps being piercing weak.

And, yeah, worms, in case you didn't pick up on that. Not that I know where to find worms at 75 worth killing other than phantom worm, but that's a pretty big thing they get to do throughout the whole game up to endgame.

Also, caster mobs sure do politely sit still at optimum damage range. Even thf rng and nin mobs will do it quite often.


Anyway, all of this just still is nothing I'm really arguing against-- I'm all for buffing everyone.

[Priran]

I was just talking about counter, not counterstance.

mnk also has much higher base hp, access to all kinds of regen shit that's actually useful, and the evasion really matters once you get on anything over easy prey.

Counter without Counterstance is like 20% unless you're gearing for Counter, in which case lol, you're gearing for counter. Which might not actually be a problem if you're at or near the 126 damage cap I bet you forgot about.

Also, what "useful regen gear"? Regen from gear is 1/tick, and the most useful regen armor I can think of that's MNK-exclusive would be the AF2 body, for resting.

20% is more hits than miss me on its own without utsusemi. Dread spikes is the only thing that even keeps it competitive now, and screw waiting 3 minutes to fight the next mob between every freaking fight. As far as the regen stuff goes I'm not sure what all there is other than the af2 body, I just remember alma having like 5hp/tic or more in his solo gear.

Yeah that's 20% before accuracy checks. If a Counter would miss, it doesn't counter and you take the hit. And the 20% assumes you have full merits.

Also, are you seriously trying to complain about how long it takes you to rest your HP to a MNK?

[quote:7a415]RNG can't solo? Excuse me? They have access to all the bolts drk has acess too, and they will land them extremely reliably. They also do their damage from range, opening up a whole new can of worms... you know you liked that pun.

Mobs don't politely sit still at optimum damage range. While a mob being directly in your face might be a boon if you're just trying to land a status bolt, it fucking sucks if you're trying to do damage. Plus RNG defense, evasion, and HP are the gold standard in awful.

It's all about the bolts. It's pretty damn easy for a good ranger to keep stuff at bay for a long time. A drk can as well, but can't put out nearly the dmg in the process. Also, rng dmg is pretty damn good these days with many of the best camps being piercing weak.[/quote:7a415]So RNG can solo, it just takes fucking forever, costs a lot, and has a significantly smaller margin for error than most other melees. Right. RNG solo sucks.

And, yeah, worms, in case you didn't pick up on that. Not that I know where to find worms at 75 worth killing other than phantom worm, but that's a pretty big thing they get to do throughout the whole game up to endgame.

Sure, you can solo worms, but it can get ridiculously slow and it'll never take you to 75.

Also, caster mobs sure do politely sit still at optimum damage range. Even thf rng and nin mobs will do it quite often.

RNGs and BLMs and such move in to melee after taking some damage.

[Wizerd]

I was just talking about counter, not counterstance.

mnk also has much higher base hp, access to all kinds of regen shit that's actually useful, and the evasion really matters once you get on anything over easy prey.

Counter without Counterstance is like 20% unless you're gearing for Counter, in which case lol, you're gearing for counter. Which might not actually be a problem if you're at or near the 126 damage cap I bet you forgot about.

Also, what "useful regen gear"? Regen from gear is 1/tick, and the most useful regen armor I can think of that's MNK-exclusive would be the AF2 body, for resting.

20% is more hits than miss me on its own without utsusemi. Dread spikes is the only thing that even keeps it competitive now, and screw waiting 3 minutes to fight the next mob between every freaking fight. As far as the regen stuff goes I'm not sure what all there is other than the af2 body, I just remember alma having like 5hp/tic or more in his solo gear.

Yeah that's 20% before accuracy checks. If a Counter would miss, it doesn't counter and you take the hit. And the 20% assumes you have full merits.

Also, are you seriously trying to complain about how long it takes you to rest your HP to a MNK?

[quote:3f6db]RNG can't solo? Excuse me? They have access to all the bolts drk has acess too, and they will land them extremely reliably. They also do their damage from range, opening up a whole new can of worms... you know you liked that pun.

Mobs don't politely sit still at optimum damage range. While a mob being directly in your face might be a boon if you're just trying to land a status bolt, it fucking sucks if you're trying to do damage. Plus RNG defense, evasion, and HP are the gold standard in awful.

It's all about the bolts. It's pretty damn easy for a good ranger to keep stuff at bay for a long time. A drk can as well, but can't put out nearly the dmg in the process. Also, rng dmg is pretty damn good these days with many of the best camps being piercing weak.

So RNG can solo, it just takes fucking forever, costs a lot, and has a significantly smaller margin for error than most other melees. Right. RNG solo sucks.

And, yeah, worms, in case you didn't pick up on that. Not that I know where to find worms at 75 worth killing other than phantom worm, but that's a pretty big thing they get to do throughout the whole game up to endgame.

Sure, you can solo worms, but it can get ridiculously slow and it'll never take you to 75.

Also, caster mobs sure do politely sit still at optimum damage range. Even thf rng and nin mobs will do it quite often.

RNGs and BLMs and such move in to melee after taking some damage.[/quote:3f6db]

When they get to ~66% to be exact (depending on the mob of course - Qiqirn Rangers are different, they stay at optimum range the entire time because, well, they want optimum range on you, too).

Also, Plow, don't be a retard, I can't think of any THF mobs that actually used ranged attacks, can you?

[Plow]

Also, Plow, don't be a retard, I can't think of any THF mobs that actually used ranged attacks, can you?

Are you serious? How about every goblin thief in the game?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

One thing about DRK that nobody mentions: There is a lot more room for skill in it than with other melees. MNK, NIN, and WAR are infamously easy to play. SAM is a bit more complex, but not much. DRK however has to juggle MP and cast time with Abs-TP, Drains, and Dread Spikes, keeping an eye out for stunning, timing on the notoriously difficult to time Abs-TP and the notoriously deadly Souleater, if DRK/SAM it has to cancel hasso/seigan for maximum spell efficiency, and everything else other jobs have to do. What this means is that unlike other jobs, you can't just do a gear comparison and say 'x should be > y'. DRKs can underperform and overperform the expectations set by their gear completely legitimately.

Just food for thought.

[Krandor]

i'm kinda curious how chi blast stacks up now. though ive wanted a buff for it since nether blast came onto the scene.

Sorry they didn't buff the pDiF for Chi Blast, maybe next patch.

[Nagamaki]

THF mobs don't use ranged attack... The reason those "goblin thieves" use ranged attack is because in the world outside our head, they're goblin rangers. THF mobs, goblin or otherwise, do not have ranged attacks.

[Lordender]

One thing about DRK that nobody mentions: There is a lot more room for skill in it than with other melees. MNK, NIN, and WAR are infamously easy to play. SAM is a bit more complex, but not much. DRK however has to juggle MP and cast time with Abs-TP, Drains, and Dread Spikes, keeping an eye out for stunning, timing on the notoriously difficult to time Abs-TP and the notoriously deadly Souleater, if DRK/SAM it has to cancel hasso/seigan for maximum spell efficiency, and everything else other jobs have to do. What this means is that unlike other jobs, you can't just do a gear comparison and say 'x should be > y'. DRKs can underperform and overperform the expectations set by their gear completely legitimately.

Just food for thought.

also abs-str is now more useful than ever with the 1str=1atk for 2h weapons.

[NynJa]

Also, caster mobs sure do politely sit still at optimum damage range. Even thf rng and nin mobs will do it quite often.

EPIC LULZ
There is not one thief mob in the game that uses ranged attacks. Not even corsair lamia use ranged attacks.

Goblin Thieves: Thug, Mugger, Robber, Welldigger, etc etc etc
Goblin Rangers: Ambusher, Furrier, Poacher, Hunter, etc etc etc

[Plow]

Maybe I'm tripping about the thf mobs but it really doesn't change the argument at all, there are still mobs that will stand nice and still for you for a good chunk of their life.

But of course since I disagree with the "cool kids" everyone's going to jump on the one tiny thing they can find, regardless of how it actually affects the discussion.

[NynJa]

Maybe I'm tripping about the thf mobs but it really doesn't change the argument at all, there are still mobs that will stand nice and still for you for a good chunk of their life.

But of course since I disagree with the "cool kids" everyone's going to jump on the one tiny thing they can find, regardless of how it actually affects the discussion.

you make it sound like ranger and blm beastmen are the norm...

[Beckwin]

One thing about DRK that nobody mentions: There is a lot more room for skill in it than with other melees. MNK, NIN, and WAR are infamously easy to play. SAM is a bit more complex, but not much. DRK however has to juggle MP and cast time with Abs-TP, Drains, and Dread Spikes, keeping an eye out for stunning, timing on the notoriously difficult to time Abs-TP and the notoriously deadly Souleater, if DRK/SAM it has to cancel hasso/seigan for maximum spell efficiency, and everything else other jobs have to do. What this means is that unlike other jobs, you can't just do a gear comparison and say 'x should be > y'. DRKs can underperform and overperform the expectations set by their gear completely legitimately.

Just food for thought.

Oh I know I underperformed in that parse a bit- I was fucking around with Gsword at least a third of the time, and I think drk/sam would've done better overall anyway.

[Beckwin]

Oh and actually ninja mobs frequently have the same "ranged" AI; Plow might've confused them with thfs?

[Lordwafik]

THF mobs don't use ranged attack... The reason those "goblin thieves" use ranged attack is because in the world outside our head, they're goblin rangers. THF mobs, goblin or otherwise, do not have ranged attacks.

Nagamaki I always knew you'd snap from the nice mathematician :D

3 cheers!

[NynJa]

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7152/patchlo1.jpg

I guess that should be the norm ?

[Lordender]

forget about the crits! did lolav pop? -.-

[NynJa]

forget about the crits! did lolav pop? -.-

full dorp + AV

and no, AV's spells definately arent nerfed.
1343 aero5, not sure what buffs I had.

[Plow]

Oh and actually ninja mobs frequently have the same "ranged" AI; Plow might've confused them with thfs?

nah, naga was right, I was thinking some of the goblin rng were thf for some reason