Will They Fix It?

[Khamsin]

I'd imagine making 2handers weaker will piss too many people off, so they'll probably just make dual wielders stronger to at least keep up with 2handers.

[LD]

Where's the "they should change it but won't option?" :|

"No. A lot of this seems unfair right now, but maybe this was really planned."

That one

[Siniroth]

I'd imagine making 2handers weaker will piss too many people off, so they'll probably just make dual wielders stronger to at least keep up with 2handers.

Probably the smartest thing to do if they don't want to piss off a majority of the playerbase

[LD]

There's nothing wrong with 1Hs, though. The problem is being able to get at least .5 higher pDIF.

[Acturus]

I have a feeling that SE will modify this, but they aren't going to touch it until the next maintenence on the 11th of September.

Other than individual world issues, we've not seen emergency maintenence in a long time.

The problem is, that's just enough time for everyone to move past Denial and Anger and on to Acceptence.

[Credos]

I like how everyone has totaly forgotten about BLM. >_> Who now are forced to manaburn or solo only. /blub

you can do 5k solo an hour easy though.

Oh right, so I can solo my merits 5 times slower than melee in an exp PT? Fun.

Was being sarcastic, but I got 40k an hour in a SAM burn last night.

I really wish BLM was fixed a little, SE went overboard on eliminating them from Aht Urghan.

I'm a little late, surprised no one else commented:

there's no camps currently that I would expect it's possible to get 40k/hr from, no matter what job setup you had. (colibri's maxes out at ~25k/hr regardless of kill speed.) you'd need 14-18 level 81-83 mobs in au on a 5 minute recast, or 50-60 level 81-83 mobs on an indoor recast within seconds running distance of each other, and you would need an average kill to kill time of 19 seconds.

(this is ignoring doing stuff like back to back to back anny ring charges or taking double cor and using corsair's rolls etc. - with constant XI's on cor roll, you'd need 12-15 mobs and an average kill time of 22 seconds. with an average roll, 13-16 and an average kill time of 21 seconds.)

It's ok, this was the person who didn't know that Dagger WS was piercing damage.

[Plow]

Here's the thing.


When they did shit like... say nerfing absorb-tp pointlessly when it already wasn't even enough to put drk on par: we bitched.

What did we get in response? Pages and pages of "omg stfu nub drk learn to time absorb tp 100% absolutely perfectly every time with no gauge to go by." Along with of course years of "fuck it if you want to be useful go level something else."

Now, 1h users don't even get nerfed, 2h simply gets buffed potentially past them, and people expect the people they shit on for years to be on their side when they cry about "zomg my 30 dmg dagger doesn't ws as hard as that 95 dmg scythe anymore"?

You spawned a fucking terminology for laughing at multiple jobs based on your "superiority" to these people based on their jobs.

Good luck with that.

[Shuemue]

Something is pretty fucking retarded when my BLM/WAR with 85 GAxe skill and rune chopper can hit harder per swing on farming mobs than my decently geared and merited MNK.

Uncapped staff on BLM but even so I have 450+ attack with berserk and subs, no special melee gear, just ohat/snipers/life belt.

[Scorp]

I think that some people need to step back and decide if this is good for the game or not, rather than focusing on their jobs. There was definitely a need to adjust the melee jobs so that they each provided something in both the merit and hnm arena. Even if its something of a support role in hnm.

We were headed towards a situation where everyone was leveling a burn job of some sort and the game was losing a lot of variation. Only 1 or 2 outspoken people were really pushing the less popular jobs to see what was possible and even when they discovered something very few took it up.

What we have though is a change which goes slightly too far, to see an almost perfectly geared mnk be run close by an ah dragoon is a bit disturbing. I'm not too bothered about the ridill war thing because 1) i've benefited for a long time from it and 2) war's premiere weapon was always "meant" to be great axe. What I would like to see is a dragoon or dark that has spent the time, merits and effort developing their char pushing the same(ish) numbers to a non 2H'er that has done the same.

(The only thing that REALLY pisses me off is the adjustment to mnks damage cap on too weak mobs, I just can't understand the point of it. Just seems like a random kick in the crotch).

[Nameless]

Something is pretty fucking retarded when my BLM/WAR with 85 GAxe skill and rune chopper can hit harder per swing on farming mobs than my decently geared and merited MNK.

Uncapped staff on BLM but even so I have 450+ attack with berserk and subs, no special melee gear, just ohat/snipers/life belt.

You hit harder but they hit faster.

Not to mention an GA should hit harder as long as you can use it. Remember, even as blm you are an advanture who has the talent to do alot of stuff. It's just that you are blm and specified on one thing, doesn't mean you are completely uncoordinated and can't swing an axe better than an average town ppl. A average ppl will always be able to chop a tree better with a GA than a fighting champion with their fists. Just the way things work.

[hopefulki]

I think that some people need to step back and decide if this is good for the game or not, rather than focusing on their jobs. There was definitely a need to adjust the melee jobs so that they each provided something in both the merit and hnm arena. Even if its something of a support role in hnm.

We were headed towards a situation where everyone was leveling a burn job of some sort and the game was losing a lot of variation. Only 1 or 2 outspoken people were really pushing the less popular jobs to see what was possible and even when they discovered something very few took it up.

What we have though is a change which goes slightly too far, to see an almost perfectly geared mnk be run close by an ah dragoon is a bit disturbing. I'm not too bothered about the ridill war thing because 1) i've benefited for a long time from it and 2) war's premiere weapon was always "meant" to be great axe. What I would like to see is a dragoon or dark that has spent the time, merits and effort developing their char pushing the same(ish) numbers to a non 2H'er that has done the same.

(The only thing that REALLY pisses me off is the adjustment to mnks damage cap on too weak mobs, I just can't understand the point of it. Just seems like a random kick in the crotch).

I love you?

Balance is what it comes down to.

A decked out MNK should be > ah DRG, decked out DRG > AH mnk, decked out THF > Ah sam..

etc.

Balance is what many of us arguing crave. I don't care what job you are, none should feel thier job sucks to the point that any person who just dinged 75 on X job can outdamage their pimped out character of 3 years.

This is broken, plain and simple.

[Plow]

Yeah, God forbid a mage with warrior sub being able to swing an 85ish dmg weapon at a too weak mob for twice what a monk hits with a 45(? not sure about mnk d rating) at a whopping 1/4 the rate of attack.

We were headed towards a situation where everyone was leveling a burn job of some sort and the game was losing a lot of variation. Only 1 or 2 outspoken people were really pushing the less popular jobs to see what was possible and even when they discovered something very few took it up.

What we have though is a change which goes slightly too far, to see an almost perfectly geared mnk be run close by an ah dragoon is a bit disturbing. I'm not too bothered about the ridill war thing because 1) i've benefited for a long time from it and 2) war's premiere weapon was always "meant" to be great axe. What I would like to see is a dragoon or dark that has spent the time, merits and effort developing their char pushing the same(ish) numbers to a non 2H'er that has done the same.

FFXI has always been and probably always will be this way. At first, a crap drg or drk would obliterate everything cept maybe monks, and it was virtually pointless to level a different dd. Then came the tp nerf and rangers stepped into that role, although blm popularity was building. Then came the rng nerf, and the looooongass time of blm being absolute king. Then eventually people started realizing the potential of dual wield/martial arts with great gear, and blm were nerfed slightly, and we got a few more classes involved, between war/mnk/thf/nin, but war and mnk were still clearly dominant.

Expect certain jobs to *always* be leaps and bounds above everything else in this game, and just sit back and enjoy the ride when you get picked. And try not to get to pissed when you eventually get shat on.


I have an even better example of how to make the point I'm trying to make here:


SUMMONER DMG SHOULD BE MAAAAAASSSSSSIIIIIIVVVVVVEEEEEELLLLLLLLYYYYYYY buffed for merits.




See how you don't give a fuck about the classes that are behind you, only those in your way?


Welcome to the real world, people out here work the same way you do.



Oh and yes, I'm fully aware that when they nerf it and I bitch 50 people are going to point at what I say here.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Who here has actually partied with an AH 2h wielder as a pimped out THF, NIN, or MNK and gotten outdamaged?

[FinalJustice]

Who here has actually partied with an AH 2h wielder as a pimped out THF, NIN, or MNK and gotten outdamaged?

Got quiet

But seriously i would like to see some parse info where this AH Drg beats out a top tier Mnk/War/Nin now.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Who here has actually partied with an AH 2h wielder as a pimped out THF, NIN, or MNK and gotten outdamaged?

Got quiet

Seriously

[Turambar]

After reading all the THF complaints, I have to wonder if this would silence all the "now every 2hand/THF can replace us at HNM": A Job Ability at level 38+ that gives a large Enmity bonus to the melee attack (similar to how Sneak Attack makes the next melee attack critical, and how Trick Attack causes the next melee attack to transfer hate). Thus, the THF would be able to transfer hate equal to or better than the now-boosted SATA Gekkos, despite lower damage on the actual WS.


With regards to the thread topic...
I think the DEX=Acc thing is a bug, and is a side-effect of how they intentionally implemented the STR=Att. I don't think that 1hand weapons should get DEX=Acc as I've seen some people advocating, because regardless of the weapon, it's just silly to be be hitting the accuracy cap butt-naked.


With regards to the patch in general...
As a career mage, I honestly don't understand most of the complaints. Mobs die faster than ever before, so every melee job is getting their merits at the same speed or faster than before. BLM, RNG, and BST are the only jobs that don't really benefit from the new 2hand changes. Of those 3, only BLM and RNG really don't have anything to show for it, because quite frankly, the change to BST Exp is huge.


With regards to all the whining...
Again, career mage, so take this for what it's worth. All the WARs, MNKs, and NINs who've been complaining nonstop since Monday need to give it a rest. Being at the top of every parse is nothing more than e-peen. Considering how heavily this game promotes (oh who am I kidding; forces) group dynamics, shouldn't we all be more cooperative, instead of competing over 0.02 percentage points of damage in a computer game? 3 days ago no WAR/MNK/NIN would deign lower himself to the level of competing with a DRK or DRG, and with good reason; there was no need for it because it was already known who would win. A truly pimped-out DRK or DRG could post a parse result here showing how he kept pace with the 3 Kings of EXP, and be congratulated for it. Maybe I'm just crazy, but if I were a WAR/MNK/NIN now, I'd be looking forward to the new challenge of trying to compete with that same pimped-out DRK or DRG.

[Khamsin]

Who here has actually partied with an AH 2h wielder as a pimped out THF, NIN, or MNK and gotten outdamaged?

Got quiet

Seriously

It's because they're all too ashamed. For example, if aurik on MNK took a first-job DRG who just hit 75 to a KRT burn party and lost the parse to him, do you think he'd post the results?!

[threevo]

it took us twice as long to kill genbu as it did byakko last night... 75 sam came /war and within the first to 2minutes of the fight he did a Gekko for 1200, med, another gekko for 1100ish, then get pwned in the face... Idk what they will do, but capped Overwhelm is just broken now...

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

it took us twice as long to kill genbu as it did byakko last night... 75 sam came /war and within the first to 2minutes of the fight he did a Gekko for 1200, med, another gekko for 1100ish, then get pwned in the face... Idk what they will do, but capped Overwhelm is just broken now...

You bring up an interesting point

Hate is going to be much harder to keep on HNMs...

Who here has actually partied with an AH 2h wielder as a pimped out THF, NIN, or MNK and gotten outdamaged?

Got quiet

Seriously

It's because they're all too ashamed. For example, if aurik on MNK took a first-job DRG who just hit 75 to a KRT burn party and lost the parse to him, do you think he'd post the results?!

Only if he wants us to think there is an actual problem.

[Denchi]

Well if you're a Sam or a Drk, enjoy it. I'm a Nin and a Mnk, but I'll be fine. Most of us have played through tons of bullshit updates (TP Nerf, Dual-wield adjustment) and it doesn't make my job useless. I'm actually happy that these drks actually have something to do now, same with Sams, all my Sam and Drk friends won't just sit in whitegate and help nubs with missions all day.

Enjoy it while you can.