Parses after the patch

[Delekii]

Hexagram, that is a very specific situation. As I said, I am not a DRK, but if I were, I would be aiming to cast Absorb TP with as little TP as possible so as to waste as little as possible. What happens if the first case DRK only had 50 TP, missed his attack round from drain, cast Absorb TP, and got left on 95TP?

[hexagram23]

Guillotine damage isn't affected by more TP so having "extra TP" for it is pointless.

No shit Sherlock, but getting 100 TP faster is gonna mean more weaponskills which means more damage. If you don't already have mobs lined up, then you have a problem with your puller or you need to get your feet moving with the rest of the melee to another mob.

Abs-tp would help me catch up to a pinnacle-sans-relic/gktmerits SAM, spamming drain would not.

This is retarded logic because at most casting Drain2 you'd lose 14-17 TP. If every single time you went to WS, you were short 14-17 TP, you'd have a point. But it's not like that, so you don't. Whether or not you're "short" 17 TP from missing a hit is irrelevant since Absorb-TP makes up the difference. If you're at 60 TP and need 40 more TP, missing out on 17 TP doesn't matter if you Absorb-TP for 45 TP, since 60+45 = 105. Not to mention in that same time frame you'd have done more damage with that spell instead of your melee hit.

DRK isn't your main job, is it?

[Priran]

He has 60 TP, casts Absorb-TP for 45 TP, giving him 115 TP

math is hard

[Delekii]

Dude, you are explaining exactly why your OWN logic is faulty. Every time you cast absorb TP at TP high enough to mean that you will get 100TP+, it means that you risk wasting TP. The only time you can be garunteed not to waste TP casting Absorb TP, is casting it low enough that it cannot possibly put you over 100TP.

[hexagram23]

Hexagram, that is a very specific situation. As I said, I am not a DRK, but if I were, I would be aiming to cast Absorb TP with as little TP as possible so as to waste as little as possible. What happens if the first case DRK only had 50 TP, missed his attack round from drain, cast Absorb TP, and got left on 95TP?

Then he would WS about 6-8 seconds later than the guy that didn't cast, while still doing 100+ more damage with the spell. Hardly parser-breaking stuff, either way.

The DRK who chose to swing instead of cast could just as easily miss that hit. Or, the DRK who choose to swing could Absorb less TP (or more) depending on the situation. Regardless it's not as black and white as people are making it seem....missing one attack round doesn't automatically equal "you WS later than a guy that didn't", not when a spell like Absorb-TP is around.

Besides, I'm not saying "cast it at 60 TP!". I just used that as an example.

[hexagram23]

He has 60 TP, casts Absorb-TP for 45 TP, giving him 115 TP

math is hard

Eh, 105, whatever. The point still stands.

[Beckwin]

The point that you have no point?

And don't try the condescending "drk isn't your main, is it?" shit when to be perfectly honest, you're the one making a fool of yourself.

[hexagram23]

Dude, you are explaining exactly why your OWN logic is faulty. Every time you cast absorb TP at TP high enough to mean that you will get 100TP+, it means that you risk wasting TP. The only time you can be garunteed not to waste TP casting Absorb TP, is casting it low enough that it cannot possibly put you over 100TP.

If you're worried about getting as close to 100 as possible without going over you might as well never cast it, because too many X Factors come into play. You could be at 30 TP and steal 70, or you could be at 70 TP and steal 25, it's not an exact science, even if you know how to time it. In TP burns mobs generally last 35 seconds or less....you have to cast the spell when you can....you don't have the luxury of saying "well, I have low TP so now I'm going to cast it so as not to waste TP". Thinking like that you'll never cast it, or you'll cast it when a mob uses his TP and get jack shit.

[hexagram23]

The point that you have no point?

And don't try the condescending "drk isn't your main, is it?" shit when to be perfectly honest, you're the one making a fool of yourself.

Buddy I'm not the one getting raped by SAMs in parsers, you are. Let's put it this way....I don't get outparsed by SAMs, you do.
SAM WSs don't do more damage than mine, either. I will happily be the fool who is performing better than you.

So, one of us is doing something wrong. I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's the guy getting raped, if you feel differently perform better in the parser using the methods you are talking about. Your buddy said he'll run another parser so that is the chance to redeem yourself.

[Ryko]

The point that you have no point?

And don't try the condescending "drk isn't your main, is it?" shit when to be perfectly honest, you're the one making a fool of yourself.

Buddy I'm not the one getting raped by SAMs in parsers, you are. Let's put it this way....I don't get outparsed by SAMs, you do.
SAM WSs don't do more damage than mine, either. I will happily be the fool who is performing better than you.

So, one of us is doing something wrong. I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's the guy getting raped, if you feel differently perform better in the parser using the methods you are talking about. Your buddy said he'll run another parser so that is the chance to redeem yourself.

He already stated the 2 reasons he fell behind as far as he did, and even if he went full throttle off the bat chances are I'd still edge out. If you haven't lost to a SAM since this update, especially casting drain and drain 2 as "mobs are being pulled into camp" (seriously...) then I'd say party with better DD's. Losing a parse to me is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

[hexagram23]

He already stated the 2 reasons he fell behind as far as he did, and even if he went full throttle off the bat chances are I'd still edge out. If you haven't lost to a SAM since this update, especially casting drain and drain 2 as "mobs are being pulled into camp" (seriously...) then I'd say party with better DD's.

Yes, because mobs under no circumstances are ever pulled. Every EXP party is perfect and there is 10 mobs slept waiting on us.

I guess the other DRKs that outparsed SAMs in this thread "need to party with better DDers" too, huh?

You won the parser because it was in your favor, don't let it go to your head man. I dunno who gassed you up but they need to stop. You outparsed a DRK on mobs he can't cast magic on, and outparsed a MNK with accuracy issues. Holy shit you are the man.

A SAM's average WS damage should never be more than a DRKs, even without Souleater, so let's not act like the guy you parsed against is the pinnacle of all DRKs. Maybe if you partied with better DDers you wouldn't parse as good. It goes both ways.

[Ryko]

Yes, because mobs under no circumstances are ever pulled. Every EXP party is perfect and there is 10 mobs slept waiting on us.

You don't need 10 slept mobs waiting on you, you need 1. Seeing as how we not only chained colibri but wivres we literally never had to look more than 5 units away for the next target.

I guess the other DRKs that outparsed SAMs in this thread "need to party with better DDers" too, huh?

Seeing as how the DRK that edged out the SAM did so by what seemed to be less than a % / 900 damage (see: 1 weapon skill, with a shitty sub no less) uh, yeah, sorry.

You won the parser because it was in your favor, don't let it go to your head man. I dunno who gassed you up but they need to stop. You outparsed a DRK on mobs he can't cast magic on, and outparsed a MNK with accuracy issues. Holy shit you are the man.

I offered to tip the scales in their favor (let's ignore the fact that the monk getting an acc roll would have benefited me as well for a second), taking away the things that benefited only 2/3 of us and offered to do it on mobs that not only stoneskin but also will eventually petrify me seeing as how I am going to tank in the next setup like I did in the last one. Upon doing this, while they are going all out, there is a very large likelihood I will win again. You may think it's an ego, and honestly some of it is, but I didn't make any exaggerated claims nor ignored things that are relevant. You can't even contend that I don't know what the jobs are capable of.

A SAM's average WS damage should never be more than a DRKs, even without Souleater, so let's not act like the guy you parsed against is the pinnacle of all DRKs. Maybe if you partied with better DDers you wouldn't parse as good. It goes both ways.

Of course I didn't, I can't party with myself (wait for the whoosh), but frankly I doubt i'd find better melees outside of this shell except for maybe a monk with spharai in a shell I'm pretty cool with.

And you're kidding right? A hagun sam atm is getting the FULL benefit of a weapon skill being SA'd while retaining a large large large chance of double attacking. You act as if my average WS # was low or something, do you know of a DD who wouldn't take a 1300+ WS average? (Ignoring the fact that if I low end it's probably because I missed so it doesn't get factored into the numbers at all.) I don't, and frankly I doubt you'd do much if any better.

[Tythera]

A SAM's average WS damage should never be more than a DRKs, even without Souleater, so let's not act like the guy you parsed against is the pinnacle of all DRKs. Maybe if you partied with better DDers you wouldn't parse as good. It goes both ways.

Except if you look at the two parses, the DRK's WS average is roughly the same (1259 beckwin vs 1241 random DRK from Underscore's parse) while Ryko's WS average was 1337 compared to the random SAM's 1091. Granted it's trolls vs colibri but I don't think the difference between them is very huge (someone could correct me though).

Who's parsing with gimp melees again?

Edit: better yet, find me a parse with a DRK's WS average over 1337 at one of those camps?

Edit2: and does a WAR/SAM getting off more WS than SAM/WAR seem suspect to anyone else in Underscore's parse?

[underscore]

my parse was on trolls so maybe that had to do with it, diamond hide + pld + rdm mobs with gay defence = lower ws avg for all! except for the drk who was using red curry so he had like ~900atk most of the time with cor and brd in pt

also if you check damage taken you can see i used hasso more, since i 2box a whm or rdm in pretty much all merit pts now, and i ws at 100% roughly 80% of the time, even if mobs arent at an ideal hp.

[Tythera]

Ah yeah I forgot about the stoneskin possibilities, but still, anyone have one of doing over Ryko's average at colibri on a DRK? I didn't really get to party with DRK's (usually had same 3 melee, war war drg most of the time I merited).

[Ryko]

A SAM's average WS damage should never be more than a DRKs, even without Souleater, so let's not act like the guy you parsed against is the pinnacle of all DRKs. Maybe if you partied with better DDers you wouldn't parse as good. It goes both ways.

Except if you look at the two parses, the DRK's WS average is roughly the same (1259 beckwin vs 1241 random DRK from Underscore's parse) while Ryko's WS average was 1337 compared to the random SAM's 1091.

Who's parsing with gimp melees again?

Edit: better yet, find me a parse with a DRK's WS average over 1337?

Edit2: and does a WAR/SAM getting off more WS than SAM/WAR seem suspect to anyone else in underscore's parse?

The WS average almost makes me think he was using a soboro, but his WSes fired being so low seem to counter that feeling. Either way that SAM was slacking on all sides :/ even against other samurais I tend to fire almost 1.5x the weapon skills as the next guy.

diamond hide + pld + rdm mobs with gay defence = lower ws avg for all!

Eh even in my troll parse my WS average was 1 DMG lower than on colibri and wivres that can do demoralizing roar (and if I have 100 TP I'm firing it, roar or no roar). It didn't change too much over a long enough time.

anyone have one of doing over Ryko's average at colibri on a DRK?

Closest one I saw was 1300 from an algol drk, same concept (1 hit WS, if it low ends it probably missed so it doesn't get counted)

[underscore]

i dont think he was using a 6 hit build so that may explain why his ws#s seem low, and he isnt sam main(relic nin) so he probably wasnt used to playing sam, but i dont see how he can raise his avg ws dmg unless he was using defender or something silly like that

[hexagram23]

Except if you look at the two parses, the DRK's WS average is roughly the same (1259 beckwin vs 1241 random DRK from Underscore's parse) while Ryko's WS average was 1337 compared to the random SAM's 1091. Granted it's trolls vs colibri but I don't think the difference between them is very huge (someone could correct me though).

The difference between the 2 camps is massive.

Birds are VT, low DEF/low evasion. You can't use food on them or cast magic.

Trolls are VT/IT, some of the mobs (PLD for example) have high DEF depending on your Attack. Also there is Stoneskin to take into consideration, and they have higher Evasion than the birds.

Beckwin the DRK/WAR using no food on VT Birds average WS was 1259.

"Whoever" the DRK/NIN on VT-IT Trolls average WS was 1241. Granted he was using Curry but he had no Berserk and less DA proc.

Beckwin's average WS should be blowing the other guy away....but it's not. I'm sorry to say but that's gimp. A DRK/NIN on IT Trolls shouldn't have the same WS damage as a DRK/WAR on VT mobs, that's why I'm not really looking at this Beckwin guy like he's a great DRK to parse against. That's why I said "parse against better DDers". Hell, Ryko's WSs on VT mobs should be way higher than some random SAMs on VT/ITs too if he's such a bad ass SAM.

[underscore]

the drk/nin has hq equip on the level of worldx, with stage 4 relic(5 soon) so saying someone has gimp gear compared to him is pretty dumb. he sjs nin because he doesnt want to tax the healer(jp mindset)

[Priran]

Except if you look at the two parses, the DRK's WS average is roughly the same (1259 beckwin vs 1241 random DRK from Underscore's parse) while Ryko's WS average was 1337 compared to the random SAM's 1091. Granted it's trolls vs colibri but I don't think the difference between them is very huge (someone could correct me though).

Birds...you can't use food on them or cast magic.

no