Parses after the patch

[hexagram23]

You can't be serious. You bring the claim he's gimp and not performing up to some invisible bar, show us the invisible bar at the same camp. Hay guys I'm trying to make a point, you go prove it since I can't, I'll stand here and look awesome. So many times people do this shit on this boards, it drives me nuts. That's not how it fucking works. From his gear/WS gear what could the other guy have that would make him so gimp? Just shout out answers when you think of them.

We also just determined another jump in attack with a minuet instead of a march. The high WS of 2700 vs 1900 makes me think he was using souleater a lot more often than Beckwin was, which I would say is reasonable being /nin.

I never said "run another parser", Ryko did. I merely said Birds isn't a good camp to parse a DRK at, I assume Ryko agreed or at the very least he's humoring me, and he said he'd run another parse at Trolls/Mamools, so I asked "what's up with that?".

Calm down.

[underscore]

dont say the drk/nin outparsed the drk/sam when they were in seprate pts, everything is relative to the other melee in your pt as well as your support.

that 2700 high was with souleater on a puppet and it only happened once. he used souleater to help keep chain but i wouldnt say it was alot

[Tythera]

Fuck, why have I been responding to a guy that doesn't use food on colibris and think spamming drains is the secret to being an awesome drk?

Because you get outparsed by DRK/NINs and I don't? You can make jokes if you want to but seriously there is something wrong with your DRK. Maybe you need to listen to the "dinosaurs" and get some Attack/STR.

Yeah, atk/str and spamming drain is gonna help me catch up in the #ws department where I was weakest on that parse.

And I lost a heads up parse to a drk/nin? news to me.

duh, it was exactly comparative even if debuffs / buffs / food / subs are all different, I'll get you another copy of the memo right away

[hexagram23]

dont say the drk/nin outparsed the drk/sam when they were in seprate pts, everything is relative to the other melee in your pt as well as your support.

that 2700 high was with souleater on a puppet and it only happened once. he used souleater to help keep chain but i wouldnt say it was alot

It was DRK/WAR and DRK/NIN, and I didn't mean "outparsed" my bad,I meant "outperformed" in that their WSs were nearly the same. I realize it was 2 seperate parses, and it's not a heads up demonstration, but given what we know (average WS damage, etc) Beckwin didn't perform as well as he should've compared to a DRK/NIN, for whatever reason.

[Tythera]

You can't be serious. You bring the claim he's gimp and not performing up to some invisible bar, show us the invisible bar at the same camp. Hay guys I'm trying to make a point, you go prove it since I can't, I'll stand here and look awesome. So many times people do this shit on this boards, it drives me nuts. That's not how it fucking works. From his gear/WS gear what could the other guy have that would make him so gimp? Just shout out answers when you think of them.

We also just determined another jump in attack with a minuet instead of a march. The high WS of 2700 vs 1900 makes me think he was using souleater a lot more often than Beckwin was, which I would say is reasonable being /nin.

I never said "run another parser", Ryko did. I merely said Birds isn't a good camp to parse a DRK at, I assume Ryko agreed or at the very least he's humoring me, and he said he'd run another parse at Trolls/Mamools, so I asked "what's up with that?".

Calm down.

I am calm, that sort of arguing is retarded though. "You're gimp, look at your birds numbers vs someone else on trolls". If I were to say the world is flat, most people would expect proof from the person making the claim and not say "Ok, I'll go disprove the world is flat to you" or "I'll go prove the world really is flat for you". Still waiting for the better gear too since he's obviously making such terrible decisions to underperform so much.

[Beckwin]

I already said numerous times my WS was fudged a bit. Probably woulda been closer or slightly better than Ryko's, but that still wasn't near enough to close the gap; number of WS was lacking.

Oh, and I decided to play with some numbers a bit... Ryko was averaging 1 ws for every 700 melee damage. He was averaging roughly the same per swing as the SAM in underscore's parse (a tad more actually). In the time Ryko would do the same 102,406 damage the other SAM did, he'd have gotten off 146 weaponskills to other SAM's 109, and using Ryko's ws average gives him 195,595 skill damage. Add them together and you have just under 300k damage, which puts him right on par with underscore (bravura war/sam, fully meritted, correct?). And it also puts him significantly ahead of a Bec de Faucon drk/nin on mobs that he can spam abs tp on, and still rock the nin SJ for a near 200/hit melee average and 1240 WS average. Yeah, Ryko has great gear and knows what he's doing, but this should still serve as some indicator that SAM is buff as hell right now.

[Khrno]

Still haven't been able to parse with any really decked out melees, but i did with 3 merited and random HQs pieces melees yesterday on Colibris, here is the parser:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/spd64/parse2.jpg


Ayarel: WAR/NIN - Byakko's Axe/Hauby/Haidate/AF2+1 hands/Dusk feet. No GA merits.
Acey: WAR/NIN - Byakko's Axe/Hauby/Haidate/Dusk hands/AF+1 feet. No GA merits.
Eiland: DRG/WAR - The impairs eva polearm/Assault Jerkin/Dusks. Merited Polearm.
Mikan: the Wyvern.
Khrno: DRK/SAM - Algol/Adaberk/14% Haste. Merited GS.
BRD + RDM

Buffs: Coeurl Subs/Cheapkabobs, Minuet x 2 by request of the WAR leader.. No Dia II.


Notes of interest: I was casting Dread Spikes very often, as we know that damage doesn't appear on the parse (neither does Algol's fire damage) but leaving the parse aside, it was for the sake of the party, and the RDM's MP. Seigan/TE for Pecking Furrys, random Stuns. No Drains used.

I have merited with ayarel pre-update, she as Axe/Joy with merits, still beat her and as DRK/NIN.

I'll see if i can get a party with the BB MNKs or Ridill WARs of my LS, only 1 SAM there worth meriting with, but we never coincide outside LS events/camps.

And yea, Wivres lower WS averages.

[hexagram23]

I am calm, that sort of arguing is retarded though. "You're gimp, look at your birds numbers vs someone else on trolls". If I were to say the world is flat, most people would expect proof from the person making the claim and not say "Ok, I'll go disprove the world is flat to you" or "I'll go prove the world really is flat for you". Still waiting for the better gear too since he's obviously making such terrible decisions to underperform so much.

If I have to explain to you why there is a serious problem with the average WS of a DRK/WAR on VT mobs being almost the same as a DRK/NIN on IT mobs....seriously I don't know what to tell you. It's like asking "why is PUP not a good sub job for BLM?"

It's not as if I'm saying something mind-blowing, or would you ask me "why?" for that too?

The proof is right in front of you....the WSs are basically the same. That is the problem. It's obvious, what do you want from me? An explanation? Ok....STOP PARSING ON BIRDS. Or, alternately, I dunno, don't use PCC since your ACC is capped against the mobs....don't use a Sniper+1 either, that's silly. Use Flame or hell even an Assailants Ring. For your neck use something with +Attack or +STR or if you can Justice Torque. Bomb Core instead of Fire Bomblet...you don't need the ACC. I know it's gonna blow your mind but maybe use slightly less Haste and more Attack/STR...also maybe Tredecim Scythe or Death +1 instead of Perdue, which has lower delay but also lower base damage.

That better?

[underscore]

I already said numerous times my WS was fudged a bit. Probably woulda been closer or slightly better than Ryko's, but that still wasn't near enough to close the gap; number of WS was lacking.

Oh, and I decided to play with some numbers a bit... Ryko was averaging 1 ws for every 700 melee damage. He was averaging roughly the same per swing as the SAM in underscore's parse (a tad more actually). In the time Ryko would do the same 102,406 damage the other SAM did, he'd have gotten off 146 weaponskills to other SAM's 109, and using Ryko's ws average gives him 195,595 skill damage. Add them together and you have just under 300k damage, which puts him right on par with underscore (bravura war/sam, fully meritted, correct?). And it also puts him significantly ahead of a Bec de Faucon drk/nin on mobs that he can spam abs tp on, and still rock the nin SJ for a near 200/hit melee average and 1240 WS average. Yeah, Ryko has great gear and knows what he's doing, but this should still serve as some indicator that SAM is buff as hell right now.

you also forgot the sams 1hit ws raping my raging rush dmg when it goes off before mine,(i could use metatron or steel cyclone but i havent fully tested them against each other yet), and yes fully merited gaxe, fort torque, adaberk, 22haste,with 5zerk 5 da using 6hit build. i really wanna parse against a top notch sam to see how close it would be, though at the moment im pretty sure i'd get destroyed by a relic sam in the right hands

[Tythera]

Hey, we're getting somewhere. So basically switching 28 ACC 14 ATK + 93/501 to 7 ACC 29 ATK + 98/513 (103/528 on the stage 4 guy) fully accounts for the large gimpness? And if you're seriously saying putting on some ATK gear over haste will help you parse better, then I should be the one fucking blown away.

Those slots you listed probably could use changing, but that's not going to account for the difference between those parses believe it or not. I'm gonna bank on the large number of variables between buffs(and probably debuffs, both mob initiated and player initiated).

Edit: only pieces I could really see a case for would be homam hands to dusk hands (mentioned by Beckwin below) and if you were in the mood for it homam legs to black cuisses. The rest of the slots are a pretty big haste to attack tradeoff ratio.

[Beckwin]

oh, I know all about a multihitter getting fucked by a gekko... and Ryko woulda done it more often than the other guy.

Perdu has 14 attack and gets to 100 tp faster than death+1/tred as long as you wear a rajas ring (which is a no-brainer now). In the current pdif situation, the effect of crits is kinda diminished for 2handers.

I don't own a core or have a justice torque. So I could pick up a core, tp in flame, and use uh, storm gorget on neck for 17 more attack on tp gear, which won't make a really huge difference in the grand scheme of things, plus I'd have 2 pieces of gear I wouldn't really use outside of colibri camp. There's also dusk gloves instead of homam hands, which I do have but didn't have with me, so +22 atk. That also has no bearing on WS damage other than the bomblet.

And tbh, as long as there was double march and haste spell on all the time, I'd probably go for blitz ring over flame ring.

[hexagram23]

oh, I know all about a multihitter getting fucked by a gekko... and Ryko woulda done it more often than the other guy.

Perdu has 14 attack and gets to 100 tp faster than death+1/tred as long as you wear a rajas ring (which is a no-brainer now). In the current pdif situation, the effect of crits is kinda diminished for 2handers.

I don't own a core or have a justice torque. So I could pick up a core, tp in flame, and use uh, storm gorget on neck for 17 more attack on tp gear, which won't make a really huge difference in the grand scheme of things, plus I'd have 2 pieces of gear I wouldn't really use outside of colibri camp. There's also dusk gloves instead of homam hands, which I do have but didn't have with me, so +22 atk. That also has no bearing on WS damage other than the bomblet.

And tbh, as long as there was double march and haste spell on all the time, I'd probably go for blitz ring over flame ring.

The effect of crits is diminished if you are capped against a mob's DEF. For example outside of the city I hit Colibris for 330, and also critical hit them for 330. Since I doubt you are capped against the Greater Colibris, especially using something like Miths, I'd say Tredecim might be better than Perdue for DoT purposes. I think the last EXP party I used Tred I parsed at about 16% crits with it.

[Beckwin]

It's actually diminished as you approach the cap. Prior to the patch we were working with 40 less attack to begin with and were capped at 2.4? pdif, and no one was really coming close to that commonly in xp. Now anytime you're over 2.0 (which is easier now with the str->atk deal, every 2hander being able to eat meat, etc) your crits don't pack the same extra punch they used to (when they added a 1.0 to your pdif). But anyways...

How do you account for Ryko theoretically matching underscore and still pretty significantly outparsing the stage4 drk? I'm not saying I can't parse closer to Ryko in a more ideal situation (and as I recall, at the beginning of the party when I was only scythe, I was about 3 percent ahead of the mnk which had me a bit closer to Ryko's SAM), but you can't really deny how buff SAM is right now.

[hexagram23]

It's actually diminished as you approach the cap. Prior to the patch we were working with 40 less attack to begin with and were capped at 2.4? pdif, and no one was really coming close to that commonly in xp. Now anytime you're over 2.0 (which is easier now with the str->atk deal, every 2hander being able to eat meat, etc) your crits don't pack the same extra punch they used to (when they added a 1.0 to your pdif). But anyways...

How do you account for Ryko theoretically matching underscore and still pretty significantly outparsing the stage4 drk? I'm not saying I can't parse closer to Ryko in a more ideal situation (and as I recall, at the beginning of the party when I was only scythe, I was about 3 percent ahead of the mnk which had me a bit closer to Ryko's SAM), but you can't really deny how buff SAM is right now.

I assume when they "adjust" 2-handers the critcal hit situation will be something they look into.

Anyway, under equal conditions I don't see why you wouldn't parse with in 4-5% of Ryko....4-5% is nothing. It's not even worth mentioning, a few WSs with Souleater can close a 4% gap if you felt like doing that.

It's when the gap starts to hit 10% that there is an obvious problem....either with a job being "broken" or some other situation like a huge difference in the quality of gear. Or in this case you just standing there swinging your weapon unable to cast magic at will because it's the Bird camp.

SAM is cool, it's pretty bad ass. I don't think it's as amazing as people are making it seem....and even if it is people need to chill out because saying things like "OMG SAM is GOD!" is what alerts SE to nerf shit. Posting a SAM doing 7k to Fafnir is going to hurt SAMs in the long run more than make them look good.

As far as Ryko specifically, I honestly don't see the big deal. My HNMLS is ran by a relic BRD, pretty much every WAR or DRK has Adaman Hauberk, we have Sea shit, a bunch of Jailer Torques, Homam, rare mage shit....you name it. So I don't mean to take anything from him but I don't see how he's amazing, I have an LS full of SAMs with the same/comparable gear. The only way he could have a leg up on the people I see every day is if he has a relic GKT.

[gemini~cusp]

I have a question for some of the sams after the update and odly haven't found any using the combo I was curious about. But given all the adjustments are there any ppl doing parses not for strictly "meat~only" sams? Would <3 to see results on Sams using AF hands and/or Roshi Jinpachi :D Kind of interested how much you can now get from those 2 combos at least for now (despite the upcoming tone down ) and how much they may parse against other foods/jobs for a good comparison.

[Amele]

I have a question for some of the sams after the update and odly haven't found any using the combo I was curious about. But given all the adjustments are there any ppl doing parses not for strictly "meat~only" sams? Would <3 to see results on Sams using AF hands and/or Roshi Jinpachi :D Kind of interested how much you can now get from those 2 combos at least for now (despite the upcoming tone down ) and how much they may parse against other foods/jobs for a good comparison.

bonuses (possibly excepting shogun riceballs, good luck on that) from these foods aren't big enough to make it worth using them, when you consider the lost gear slot it takes to 'unlock' these foods.

that's why you don't see people using them.

[Ryko]

Anyway, under equal conditions I don't see why you wouldn't parse with in 4-5% of Ryko....4-5% is nothing. It's not even worth mentioning, a few WSs with Souleater can close a 4% gap if you felt like doing that.

In that parse to make up for 5% damage he'd have to do an extra 27 thousand damage, a "few souleater WSes" assuming each added about 1.35k to each WS would mean he'd need to do 20 more souleater weapon skills (see: not a few) to even that out. Say he got off 2 per (and let's say at that point in the parse he never used one the entire fight), that's still 50 minutes worth of cooldowns to work with. "A few" my ass

[hexagram23]

Anyway, under equal conditions I don't see why you wouldn't parse with in 4-5% of Ryko....4-5% is nothing. It's not even worth mentioning, a few WSs with Souleater can close a 4% gap if you felt like doing that.

In that parse to make up for 5% damage he'd have to do an extra 27 thousand damage, a "few souleater WSes" assuming each added about 1.35k to each WS would mean he'd need to do 20 more souleater weapon skills (see: not a few) to even that out. Say he got off 2 per (and let's say at that point in the parse he never used one the entire fight), that's still 50 minutes worth of cooldowns to work with. "A few" my ass

It THAT parse....which I've already dismissed as obviously in your favor. Parse him again on mobs he can actually cast magic on....even if he never casts Drain/Drain2 casting Absorb-TP will make a huge difference. Unless MP is a significant problem his number of WSs should almost double from that spell, making 4-5% insignificant....he'll get a hell of a lot more than 20 extra WSs over the course of the party just from that spell, and a few of those coupled with Souleater should close the gap. Drain2+Souleater (if he's so inclined) will put a massive dent in 5%.

[Ryko]

You seem to equate not using drain or drain 2 as not using absorb TP, if I was at 100 and saw him casting absorb tp guess what I did the second it connected? You can't have your cake and eat it too, that said the mobs being in my favor and his not being able to cast absorb tp (which honestly is actually quite incorrect) is irrelevant to the total damage being output on all sides. he'd need to do 27 thousand more damage, "a few souleater weapon skills" != 27 thousand damage, get off it.

[hexagram23]

You seem to equate not using drain or drain 2 as not using absorb TP, if I was at 100 and saw him casting absorb tp guess what I did the second it connected? You can't have your cake and eat it too, that said the mobs being in my favor and his not being able to cast absorb tp (which honestly is actually quite incorrect) is irrelevant to the total damage being output on all sides. he'd need to do 27 thousand more damage, "a few souleater weapon skills" != 27 thousand damage, get off it.

Even if you have 100 TP you aren't going to be able to one shot a VT/IT Mamool or a Troll, not when your average WS on VT Birds was 1.3k. So trying to cock block his WS wouldn't work. I've done 2.3k on Trolls and even THAT doesn't one shot them.

You aren't making any sense. You're trying to tell me he casted Absorb-TP on Birds as often as he normally would, at another camp where it doesn't get reflected? That's bullshit. He said himself he didn't cast it that often....his exact words were "Colibri aren't exactly the ideal mob to cast that on". All that's gonna do it get the same (if not more) TP taken right back so it's a big ass waste of time.

Let's say in the parse he was 27,000 damage behind....the average WS he did was 1.2k, correct? Parsing on mobs he could actually cast on, Absorb-TP would (at the very least) give him 27 extra WSs. Realistically it would give him MUCH more. That right there is more than 27,000 damage, not even counting Souleater. Realistically you'd parse the same, if not with in 1-2% of each other, unless something seriously goes wrong. For example, him playing his DRK like a WAR and not casting Absorb-TP even if he was able to.

Anyway, enough talk, parse on Trolls or Mamools like you said you would. Hell, you're the one who offered to do it, so do it.