Parses after the patch

[Siatdiat]

Having a 266 skill ofhand weapon be more powerful than any 2h job using their main 292 skill weapon (merits included in both) wasn't balanced in the first place. I don't get why people are still complaining. No shit obviously they will be altering 2h weapon damage soon, and to think they will somehow buff it is stupid. But the most likely thing is they will be fixing pdif so that normal hit cap and crit cap are actually different. Once all is said and done, a GA war who is well equipped and merited for using GA over swords should do similar damage as a war who is merited to take advantage of an overpowered weapon with 26 less skill (just from merits) assuming both are equally well equipped and not morons about playing..

It shouldn't be as clear cut as it was, before it was Ridill/BB/Kikoku(or full haste Nin) > Anything in basically any situation short of Ruke type haxx0rz, and if it wasn't so clear cut, you were fighting to keep up.

It shouldn't just be turned around "ha ha, fuck your adaberk/ridill/speed belt, I've got a BYAKKO'S AXE MOTHERFUCKER!" and everyone has to keep up just because us 2h fans suffered for a while.

Balance means everyone gets a chance to win, not that they get their turn because they waited.

You're entitled to your opinion. But it really makes no sense the comparison you are making. Yes, a 2h weapon with equal cap and merits or some combination of cap and merits should be equal. A mnk with capped h2h +8 h2h merits should dps at the rate a drk with scythe/scythe merits or a war with GA/GA merits. A war with a mainhand at 7 lower skill and offhand at TWENTY-SIX lower skill should not equal out in a merit/dps situation. There is no creedence to the claim that there is any game balance to that, its just the fact people have played with it as a fact for so long that they take it for granted. After years of indifference and complacency, SE is fixing their booboos.

[Ryko]

That's nice, but beckwin was talking about the likelihood that a 272 skill 2 hander would trounce a 266 skill offhander with one of the rarer weapons in the game. See: Very likely, you don't need the 8 GK merits to stomp around like you own the joint.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5944/parse4yb7.jpg

SAM/WAR, DRK/SAM x2

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8568/parse5ei2.jpg

Then this was just me and beckwin.

We were in a rush to get a session in before dyna so we didnt have much time either way.

[Nagamaki]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why SAM is so powerful post patch. The 2 biggest player specific factors (ie not external buffs) for two-hander damage are Hasso and Berserk. Only SAM/WAR and WAR/SAM can use both. DRK and DRG have other perks, but with the boosted pdif cap Berserk is even more insane than it used to be, and with stacked haste in gear and buffs, Hasso is ridiculously powerful.

Between SAM/WAR and WAR/SAM, the biggest difference makers become Overwhelm and a Meditate that's on a shorter time/yields over double the TP. A WAR with focused two-hander merits (Berserk and DA, because who cares about Aggressor with the crazy acc buff on two-handers) will do a lot better than a WAR with Ridill centric merits/gear, although SAM still has pretty serious advantages, would need proper comparison tests at that point.

Its not rocket science people.

[Siatdiat]

That's nice, but beckwin was talking about the likelihood that a 272 skill 2 hander would trounce a 266 skill offhander with one of the rarer weapons in the game. See: Very likely, you don't need the 8 GK merits to stomp around like you own the joint.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5944/parse4yb7.jpg

SAM/WAR, DRK/SAM x2

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8568/parse5ei2.jpg

Then this was just me and beckwin.

We were in a rush to get a session in before dyna so we didnt have much time either way.

I don't know if this was directed at me. But my posts have been directed to the general whiners about the loss of their e-peen, not beckwin or anyone who is parsing a ridill vs. some probably decently geared but not merited on that specific weapon melee. I don't think I said anything about the current state of the game being perfectly balanced. But I still stand by my original claim, the game being so badly balanced that a war needed a ridill to measure up was not a good thing. You can bitch and complain that its rare, but there is a lot of rare garbage drops in ffxi already, or rare toy drops, they are just making ridill the toy it was meant to be from the beginning (not by nerfing it but by putting 2h weapons where they should be). I could post my specific opinion on how to correct 2h weapons but that really isnt the issue. We'll just have to see what they do with it. I just think anyone who assumes they will nerf 2h down specifically to be weaker than ridill wielding because its hard to get is a fool.

[Crosis]

Here's a decent parse, though not 100% accurate, that I was a part of the other day. No Sams, but 2 Great Axe Wielding Wars, Drk, and myself on Mnk. Camp was Mamools at Nyzul Isle area.

Jamal WAR/NIN first voker, used Fortitute Axe, Adaman Hauberk, Haidate. Used Meat.
Rappa DRK/NIN Adaman Hauberk, Perdu sickle. Used sushi, he later regretted lol.
Bigdumbface WAR/30SAM Martial Bhuj, Haub, Haidate. Used Meat.
Me MNK/NIN BB, Haidate, Usukane Sune-Ate. Used Sushi.

Obviously WAR/SAM outparsed the rest because of a highly more offensive sub job but it caused problems too.

Everyone had good gear all around, WAR/SAM wasn't finished leveling his sub so he didn't have Seigan which caused him to die three times. Even had he had Seigan I think he would of still died once or twice and would of still been an MP Sponge, just look at his Total damage taken haha. He was also the parser for the party so he missed a few battles when he died on the parse which would of lowered his total damage.

Haste dropped a bit too much, I noticed a few times I was skipped in the rotation because of the Raises needed/Sponge curing/Bard dcing but not much the WHM could do I guess.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...parse1copy.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...parse2copy.jpg

[aru]

so the fortitude axe war did 52 less ws's than the martial war?
even with store tp working in the martial's favor i find that somewhat hard to believe. was he spamming utsu?

[Crosis]

He was first voker so he was casting Utsu often yeah. You're also forgetting the other WAR had Hasso up constantly and Store TP/Meditate/Zanshin with SAM sub.

Also WAR/NIN has no DA merits, because of being a Ridill WAR, whereas the WAR/SAM has all DA merits. Sorry forgot to mention that.

[Khrno]

May I ask, what parser is that one with the white background? Somehow it seems better than DVS. Thank you.

[draxyl]

That sure looks like dvsparse to me.

[theo]

I'm pretty sure thats Lil' Devil Productions FFXI Parser.

http://www.lildevilproductions.net/news.php

[Khrno]

That sure looks like dvsparse to me.

Well, when I export it looks different (i posted 2 parses previously in this topic), and not just that, it doesn't show WS in the log, even tho i leave all fields marked, and the ws do show on my in-game's log.

And that spell dmg from the DRKs it should be from Drains, but then again my doesn't parse Drains, unless they were using Thunder II (that was sarcasm).

I'm pretty sure thats Lil' Devil Productions FFXI Parser.

http://www.lildevilproductions.net/news.php

That's more like it, thanks a lot :D

[buttson]

has anyone else noticed inconsistencies with the lildevilproductions parser?

as an example, during assaults the other night, myself and my WAR bud were both parsing with it. after a preemptive strike run, i parsed myself at 48% and him (and the other melees) at 20%, but he parsed himself at 50% and me at 18%. we weren't split up for any of the fights, no deaths, no filters, no 2boxing or any of that.

also he was saying there were a couple of fights where it failed to record his WS.

[netz]

has anyone else noticed inconsistencies with the lildevilproductions parser?

as an example, during assaults the other night, myself and my WAR bud were both parsing with it. after a preemptive strike run, i parsed myself at 48% and him (and the other melees) at 20%, but he parsed himself at 50% and me at 18%. we weren't split up for any of the fights, no deaths, no filters, no 2boxing or any of that.

also he was saying there were a couple of fights where it failed to record his WS.

Pretty much everybody should have figured out that it and its predecessor FFXIP fail at reading the log when they first noticed that it, on occasion, records counters/shadow absorptions as separate party members.

[Masterofshade]

It's more along the lines of 1) post something new or interesting or make someone look stupid and you're a f'ing genius, or 2) disagree and either a) post no proof to support a baseless claim and be called an idiot, or b) post proof to support your now not-baseless claim, which in turn brings you back to 1).

Well K so.. I'm dumb so I might as well go ahead and do this:

@ 18% Haste, delay = 404 = 6.8s/swing
1000 swings in = 6800
@ 23% Haste, delay = 379 = 6.4s/swing
1062 swings in 6800s if you never lose the effect of haste from mob death.

Ok, I know this was WAY back, and honestly I havent read anything since like page 3... now idk if im just fuckin retarded but... Whether a mob dies before u can get in an extra hit or not, aren't you STILL attacking faster from haste? Doing the same amount of dmg in a shorter amount of time?

So... does it -really- matter if you get that next swing in for haste to be a benefit? I'm kinda lost here.

[Amele]

there's two schools of thought on haste. one is that if you get six swings faster now than you got six swings before, that's enough to make haste good.

the other school of thought says swinging faster is only good *if* it results in getting more swings than you would without haste.

most people on these boards subscribe to school #1, Bothari subscribes to school #2; I won't go into the details since it's elsewhere in this thread.

[HadesBothari]

Amele, please don't decide for me what "school" I "subscribe to".

most people on these boards subscribe to school #1, Bothari subscribes to school #2; I won't go into the details since it's elsewhere in this thread.

Not entirely true. 5% haste I always consider better than 0% haste. However, Haste need not always result in an extra hit.
Take a 492 delay weapon. @ 25% haste, it attacks once every 6.15 seconds. The same weapon with 30% haste attacks once every 5.75s. If you plot mob kill time to those,

      6.15  5.75              6.15  5.75              6.15  5.75
25      4     4         34      5     5         42.7    6     7
25.1    4     4         34.1    5     5         42.8    6     7
25.2    4     4         34.2    5     5         42.9    6     7
25.3    4     4         34.3    5     5         43      6     7
25.4    4     4         34.4    5     5         43.1    7     7
25.5    4     4         34.5    5     6         43.2    7     7
25.6    4     4         34.6    5     6         43.3    7     7
25.7    4     4         34.7    5     6         43.4    7     7
...                     34.8    5     6         ...            
..                      34.9    5     6         ..             
28.4    4     4         35      5     6         45.6    7     7
28.5    4     4         ...                     45.7    7     7
28.6    4     4         ..                      45.8    7     7
28.7    4     4         36.5    5     6         45.9    7     7
28.8    4     5         36.6    5     6         46      7     8
28.9    4     5         36.7    5     6         46.1    7     8
29      4     5         36.8    5     6         46.2    7     8
29.1    4     5         36.9    6     6         46.3    7     8
29.2    4     5         37      6     6         ...            
29.3    4     5         37.1    6     6         ..             
...                     37.2    6     6         48.7    7     8
..                      37.3    6     6         48.8    7     8
30.5    4     5         37.4    6     6         48.9    7     8
30.6    4     5         ...                     49      7     8
30.7    4     5         ..                      49.1    7     8
30.8    5     5         40      6     6         49.2    8     8
30.9    5     5         40.1    6     6         49.3    8     8
31      5     5         40.2    6     6         49.4    8     8
31.1    5     5         40.3    6     7         49.5    8     8
31.2    5     5         40.4    6     7               
...                     40.5    6     7               
..                      40.6    6     7
                        ...            
                        ..

You'll notice that if your mob dies between 25 and 45 seconds, there's only 72/200 possible times for which haste has got you an extra hit. For all other values, if you don't continue chaining mobs, you've lost the benefit of that round of haste. Which was the only thing meant by the statement.
This may be old and flawed logic.. tho.

[Amele]

so which is it bothari?

of the two perspectives I listed, you're pretty clearly not #1.

[Charismatic]

so which is it bothari?

of the two perspectives I listed, you're pretty clearly not #1.

Hidden 3rd option... Bothari is from Tenshodo

[sekaran]

Not a merit party, but..

Had a DRG SAM BLU MNK RDM PLD PT yesterday at lv62 on Colibri at the Tower.. needless to say, I, the MNK, got murdered by the DRG and beaten by the SAM. :[

My parser showed DRG+Wyvern: 31.61%, SAM: 25.63%, MNK: 22.56%, BLU: 19.13%

[alphacat]

It's like saying it's amazing mnks can beat drg on bones.

It makes sense now, it DIDN'T make sense when mnks can beat drg at something that is weak to piercing.