Current Known Issues (Aug. 30)

[aurik]

Really? I can't name enough times where I asked to merit or asked people to merit and I got the same response every time:

"I only join burn pts for merits".

Now I get an invite quickly almost as soon as I log in. Whether or not the damage formula is changed totally, I can't say that I feel sorry for NINs, MNKs, and WARs considering NOTHING about their damage has changed in merit parties OR on HNMs for that matter.

But you did pretty solid damage pre-patch, and I'm sure you would have outdamaged plenty of the retarded gits they ended up inviting. The problem was of perception more than anything else, and turning the game on its head to correct that perception is assbackwards.

Did you have another suggestion of how to do it? Perception is one of the hardest things to fix. Hell, there were still people that lol'd DRK b/c it was SO inaccurate, same with DRG. Fact of the matter is, when this get's fixed, the end result will be probably how it should have been all along, and there will be a lot butthurt people on one side, and a lot of hypocritcal asses on the other.

There's no reason why a DRGs damage shouldn't be comparable with other DD.

Yes, gentle buffs and incentives to neglected jobs until people open their eyes. Turning the game on its head and pissing off a significant portion the userbase, and then waffling about the changes and reverting some of them is a textbook example of Doing It Wrong.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Really? I can't name enough times where I asked to merit or asked people to merit and I got the same response every time:

"I only join burn pts for merits".

Now I get an invite quickly almost as soon as I log in. Whether or not the damage formula is changed totally, I can't say that I feel sorry for NINs, MNKs, and WARs considering NOTHING about their damage has changed in merit parties OR on HNMs for that matter.

But you did pretty solid damage pre-patch, and I'm sure you would have outdamaged plenty of the retarded gits they ended up inviting. The problem was of perception more than anything else, and turning the game on its head to correct that perception is assbackwards.

You may consider it ass backwards but the perception problem was fixed. The patch fixed the problem. You just aren't at the top of the heap anymore.

The patch fixed one problem but created another. Im of the impression that patches and fixes were to improve things, not create a whole new slew of other problems?

I may be silly for thinking that though.

EDIT: When I reread this after posting, the whole realization that this was an error on SE's part and will be changed sunk in. But still!

Actually, the fact that people still invite WARs and MNKs and NINs means that the same problem WASN'T replicated on the other side. People aren't going to wait for a SAM, DRK, or DRG if there are only MNKs and NINs around. This tells me that its all good.

[divisortheory]

So they did it wrong.. big deal, they've done tons of shit wrong in the past. This isn't the first time and it won't be the last.

[Nagamaki]

I'd like to get something out of the way here.

WHO CARES ABOUT MERITTING.

Jesus fucking god, its like that's the only thing people give a damn about, if you want merits at all costs you level BARD not a DD, and then you max out all your merits in a few weeks and go back to not giving a fuck about meritting!

There really isn't much point arguing specific points right now since nobody really knows what SE will do in this correction, just like nobody knew what this patch would really do beforehand, and both sides are constantly citing extremes with little value because with properly stacked circumstances, you can pull out crazy numbers from anything. I did SA DK on an Aura Pot for 3036 DMG without any external buffs, what does that prove? It proves I can stack boost with SA and that pots take +25% from blunt, that's it.

[Attila]

Really? I can't name enough times where I asked to merit or asked people to merit and I got the same response every time:

"I only join burn pts for merits".

Now I get an invite quickly almost as soon as I log in. Whether or not the damage formula is changed totally, I can't say that I feel sorry for NINs, MNKs, and WARs considering NOTHING about their damage has changed in merit parties OR on HNMs for that matter.

But you did pretty solid damage pre-patch, and I'm sure you would have outdamaged plenty of the retarded gits they ended up inviting. The problem was of perception more than anything else, and turning the game on its head to correct that perception is assbackwards.

Did you have another suggestion of how to do it? Perception is one of the hardest things to fix. Hell, there were still people that lol'd DRK b/c it was SO inaccurate, same with DRG. Fact of the matter is, when this get's fixed, the end result will be probably how it should have been all along, and there will be a lot butthurt people on one side, and a lot of hypocritcal asses on the other.

There's no reason why a DRGs damage shouldn't be comparable with other DD.

Yes, gentle buffs and incentives to neglected jobs until people open their eyes. Turning the game on its head and pissing off a significant portion the userbase, and then waffling about the changes and reverting some of them is a textbook example of Doing It Wrong.

That's a given, but then again, that would make sense, something SE isn't known for, not by a long shot. This is basically the quick and dirty way to do it. They were given top dog status for a while, and when they do the adjustment, it will (hopefully) end up somewhere in the middle.

How about this? Will they do emergency maint. to fix it first of next week, or wait until the 11th and update with the Pit release?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Yes, gentle buffs and incentives to neglected jobs until people open their eyes. Turning the game on its head and pissing off a significant portion the userbase, and then waffling about the changes and reverting some of them is a textbook example of Doing It Wrong.

Actually, they've tried tons of gentle buffs before for all of the above jobs. It didn't help. DRK got Abs-TP, Drain II, Dread Spikes. DRG got a new 2h, vastly better armor, etc. SAM got tons of stuff. None of these made the jobs invited by the majority.

[Talisien]

Actually, the fact that people still invite WARs and MNKs and NINs means that the same problem WASN'T replicated on the other side. People aren't going to wait for a SAM, DRK, or DRG if there are only MNKs and NINs around. This tells me that its all good.

Just for emphasis.

I'd just like to hear anyone argue that this hurts the game.

[Archain]

Does this remind anyone else of the initial release of Bodkin arrows?

[layoneil]

I'd like to get something out of the way here.

WHO CARES ABOUT MERITTING.

Jesus fucking god, its like that's the only thing people give a damn about, if you want merits at all costs you level BARD not a DD, and then you max out all your merits in a few weeks and go back to not giving a fuck about meritting!

as Rukenshin has said in at least 2 posts, EVERYONE, because the mechanics of meritting is nearly identical to the mechanics used in Dyanmis/Assault/Salvage/Einherjar/Limbus. so everyone does and everyone should care a whole damn lot about meritting.

the only people who should not care about meritting are the ones that log on to Tiamats, logs off and logs back on to Khimairas, which amounts to maybe 50 people per server.

[Attila]

Actually, the fact that people still invite WARs and MNKs and NINs means that the same problem WASN'T replicated on the other side. People aren't going to wait for a SAM, DRK, or DRG if there are only MNKs and NINs around. This tells me that its all good.

Just for emphasis.

I'd just like to hear anyone argue that this hurts the game.

qft

I'd like to get something out of the way here.

WHO CARES ABOUT MERITTING.

Jesus fucking god, its like that's the only thing people give a damn about, if you want merits at all costs you level BARD not a DD, and then you max out all your merits in a few weeks and go back to not giving a fuck about meritting!

as Rukenshin has said in at least 2 posts, EVERYONE, because the mechanics of meritting is nearly identical to the mechanics used in Dyanmis/Assault/Salvage/Einherjar/Limbus. so everyone does and everyone should care a whole damn lot about meritting.

the only people who should not care about meritting are the ones that log on to Tiamats, logs off and logs back on to Khimairas, which amounts to maybe 50 people per server.

Exactly, it's the one thing everyone spends the most time doing, believe it or not.

[Ohemgee]

Yes, gentle buffs and incentives to neglected jobs until people open their eyes. Turning the game on its head and pissing off a significant portion the userbase, and then waffling about the changes and reverting some of them is a textbook example of Doing It Wrong.

Actually, they've tried tons of gentle buffs before for all of the above jobs. It didn't help. DRK got Abs-TP, Drain II, Dread Spikes. DRG got a new 2h, vastly better armor, etc. SAM got tons of stuff. None of these made the jobs invited by the majority.

The userbase in the past neglected the opportunity brought about by SAM, DRK, DRG's etc. (less DRG but you get the idea). Its not like one mob requires such and such jobs, its just when everyone tosses such and such jobs in a mix, say Tiamat, Merits, and fuckin like, sky 2004, you'll get nerfs, crap updates, and summerfest music.

I'm saying, its a growing trend, if you abuse something in this game, SE will rather nerf your anus or give shit to the opposite side of the spectrum to attempt to balance it out, either way, WARs will be WARs, BLMs will be BLMs, RNGs will be WARs then BRDs or some shit.


edit: bs post for page 10!

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Yes, gentle buffs and incentives to neglected jobs until people open their eyes. Turning the game on its head and pissing off a significant portion the userbase, and then waffling about the changes and reverting some of them is a textbook example of Doing It Wrong.

Actually, they've tried tons of gentle buffs before for all of the above jobs. It didn't help. DRK got Abs-TP, Drain II, Dread Spikes. DRG got a new 2h, vastly better armor, etc. SAM got tons of stuff. None of these made the jobs invited by the majority.

The userbase in the past neglected the opportunity brought about by SAM, DRK, DRG's etc. (less DRG but you get the idea). Its not like one mob requires such and such jobs, its just when everyone tosses such and such jobs in a mix, say Tiamat, Merits, and fuckin like, sky 2004, you'll get nerfs, crap updates, and summerfest music.

I'm saying, its a growing trend, if you abuse something in this game, SE will rather nerf your anus or give shit to the opposite side of the spectrum to attempt to balance it out, either way, WARs will be WARs, BLMs will be BLMs, RNGs will be WARs then BRDs or some shit.


edit: bs post for page 10!

I have no clue what you just said.

[Khamsin]

Actually, the fact that people still invite WARs and MNKs and NINs means that the same problem WASN'T replicated on the other side. People aren't going to wait for a SAM, DRK, or DRG if there are only MNKs and NINs around. This tells me that its all good.

Just for emphasis.

I'd just like to hear anyone argue that this hurts the game.

It's only temporary because the full impact of the patch hasn't sunk in, yet. In time, ridill WARs and BB MNKs will take the old place of DRGs in people's minds. They'll be neglected, and in the event that a ridill WAR or BB MNK does get an invite, they'll be asked if they can use g.axe or staff. For the most part, they won't be invited unless the party is getting impatient and haven't been able to find any SAMs, DRKs, or DRGs in the past 30 minutes.

Their time will be too valuable to waste time getting only 20k/hour in a WAR or MNK PT when they could kill much faster with DRGs.

Look at RNGs, for example. They used to be idolized, but after the nerf, did people continue to perceive RNG as a viable DD? No. Ridill WAR and BB MNK past glory won't save them from the shame of being last pick for merit PTs and parsing behind AH DRGs in KRT.

[Nagamaki]

My point was about meritting and people acting like not getting pickup merit invites is what matters.

Lots of events involve mobs that are similar to merit mobs, that's the part that matters, that's where the patch had a ridiculously huge effect.

If you have to rely on pickup invites to merit, you need friends/a linkshell/to quit the game.

[Ohemgee]

Yes, gentle buffs and incentives to neglected jobs until people open their eyes. Turning the game on its head and pissing off a significant portion the userbase, and then waffling about the changes and reverting some of them is a textbook example of Doing It Wrong.

Actually, they've tried tons of gentle buffs before for all of the above jobs. It didn't help. DRK got Abs-TP, Drain II, Dread Spikes. DRG got a new 2h, vastly better armor, etc. SAM got tons of stuff. None of these made the jobs invited by the majority.

The userbase in the past neglected the opportunity brought about by SAM, DRK, DRG's etc. (less DRG but you get the idea). Its not like one mob requires such and such jobs, its just when everyone tosses such and such jobs in a mix, say Tiamat, Merits, and fuckin like, sky 2004, you'll get nerfs, crap updates, and summerfest music.

I'm saying, its a growing trend, if you abuse something in this game, SE will rather nerf your anus or give shit to the opposite side of the spectrum to attempt to balance it out, either way, WARs will be WARs, BLMs will be BLMs, RNGs will be WARs then BRDs or some shit.


edit: bs post for page 10!

I have no clue what you just said.

I'll throw some ebonics in there for you:

Ya'll crazy ass hoes better not be complainin' and shit about nerfs because SE are the politicians dawg. They give us shit that Shaniqua needs, and Shaniqua dont need that shit.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Actually, the fact that people still invite WARs and MNKs and NINs means that the same problem WASN'T replicated on the other side. People aren't going to wait for a SAM, DRK, or DRG if there are only MNKs and NINs around. This tells me that its all good.

Just for emphasis.

I'd just like to hear anyone argue that this hurts the game.

It's only temporary because the full impact of the patch hasn't sunk in, yet. In time, ridill WARs and BB MNKs will take the old place of DRGs in people's minds. They'll be neglected, and in the event that a ridill WAR or BB MNK does get an invite, they'll be asked if they can use g.axe or staff. For the most part, they won't be invited unless the party is getting impatient and haven't been able to find any SAMs, DRKs, or DRGs in the past 30 minutes.

Their time will be too valuable to waste time getting only 20k/hour in a WAR or MNK PT when they could kill much faster with DRGs.

Look at RNGs, for example. They used to be idolized, but after the nerf, did people continue to perceive RNG as a viable DD? No. Ridill WAR and BB MNK past glory won't save them from the shame of being last pick for merit PTs and parsing behind AH DRGs.

Except they weren't nerfed (much) and people know that they're viable. It's not being last pick that's the problem, it's being "no pick, let's wait for a real DD" that's the problem.

In any case, don't whine about a potential future. If that happens then it will be an issue but it hasn't happened yet so shut up.

I'll throw some ebonics in there for you:

Ya'll crazy ass hoes better not be complainin' and shit about nerfs because SE are the politicians dawg. They give us shit that Shaniqua needs, and Shaniqua dont need that shit.

Suddenly it all is clear.

[Septimus]

Square makes an update where two-handed weapons become godly, setting the former paradigm on fire and adrift on an iceberg. After several days of riots and anarchy, they announce that the buff was not what they intended, they lower the amount of the buff but still make two-handed weapons much better than they were before.

Afterwards two-handed weapon users are on the same level as comparatively equipped one-handed weapon users and the loldrg/drk/sam stigma is shattered.

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but maybe this was the plan from the get go...

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Square makes an update where two-handed weapons become godly, setting the former paradigm on fire and adrift on an iceberg. After several days of riots and anarchy, they announce that the buff was not what they intended, they lower the amount of the buff but still make two-handed weapons much better than they were before.

Afterwards two-handed weapon users are on the same level as comparatively equipped one-handed weapon users and the loldrg/drk/sam stigma is shattered.

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but maybe this was the plan from the get go...

Septimus is being optimistic. SE must have done SOMETHING right.

[Tajin]

Except they weren't nerfed (much) and people know that they're viable. It's not being last pick that's the problem, it's being "no pick, let's wait for a real DD" that's the problem.

In any case, don't whine about a potential future. If that happens then it will be an issue but it hasn't happened yet so shut up.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!

Suddenly it all is clear.

No dice chump 8)

[Ohemgee]

This update was for the really stupid players.