Current Known Issues (Aug. 30)

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Except they weren't nerfed (much) and people know that they're viable. It's not being last pick that's the problem, it's being "no pick, let's wait for a real DD" that's the problem.

In any case, don't whine about a potential future. If that happens then it will be an issue but it hasn't happened yet so shut up.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!

Suddenly it all is clear.

No dice chump 8)

You don't woosh me faggot

And yes, dice, very dice

This update was for the really stupid players.

Now you're calling DRK, DRG, and SAM stupid? Fuck you too.

[Lordender]

so when are they going to patch this? hopefully before sept 11th update.

[Kaylia]

You may consider it ass backwards but the perception problem was fixed. The patch fixed the problem. You just aren't at the top of the heap anymore.

The real problem is that people spent so much time gearing those jobs properly because they wanted to maximize their efficiency. If WAR had DRG-like dmg prepatch, I would never have put hundred of hours camping an e.body and ridill to be useful, I would have leveled another job. I don't have any "love" for any jobs, I just want the fastest kill and best xp.
A pimped out SAM and DRK should be doing as much damage as a pimped WAR or MNK, not more, not less. My wal-mart SAM outdamage the WAR that I've been working on for 2 years atm...it's kinda stupid. SE waited so long to fix 2h dmg that it's not fair for people who invested their time and energy trying to be the "best" only to see all their effort go to waste.
Someone who was trying to pimp DRG last year was stupid, just like someone who is trying to pimp WAR atm is stupid. The difference is that no one was forced to waste their time leveling DRG...they did it knowing they would never be at the top.



That said, I'm happy with the change. It bring a fresh air to the game, and I enjoy having to rethink everything, aim for new gears...etc. I hope thing stay that way, but I still don't think SE did it correctly.

[Ohemgee]

This update was for the really stupid players.

Now you're calling DRK, DRG, and SAM stupid? Fuck you too.

I love you.

[Attila]

Square makes an update where two-handed weapons become godly, setting the former paradigm on fire and adrift on an iceberg. After several days of riots and anarchy, they announce that the buff was not what they intended, they lower the amount of the buff but still make two-handed weapons much better than they were before.

Afterwards two-handed weapon users are on the same level as comparatively equipped one-handed weapon users and the loldrg/drk/sam stigma is shattered.

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but maybe this was the plan from the get go...

I fully support the message in this post.

[Therin]

Actually, the fact that people still invite WARs and MNKs and NINs means that the same problem WASN'T replicated on the other side. People aren't going to wait for a SAM, DRK, or DRG if there are only MNKs and NINs around. This tells me that its all good.

Just for emphasis.

I'd just like to hear anyone argue that this hurts the game.

It's only temporary because the full impact of the patch hasn't sunk in, yet. In time, ridill WARs and BB MNKs will take the old place of DRGs in people's minds. They'll be neglected, and in the event that a ridill WAR or BB MNK does get an invite, they'll be asked if they can use g.axe or staff. For the most part, they won't be invited unless the party is getting impatient and haven't been able to find any SAMs, DRKs, or DRGs in the past 30 minutes.

Their time will be too valuable to waste time getting only 20k/hour in a WAR or MNK PT when they could kill much faster with DRGs.

Look at RNGs, for example. They used to be idolized, but after the nerf, did people continue to perceive RNG as a viable DD? No. Ridill WAR and BB MNK past glory won't save them from the shame of being last pick for merit PTs and parsing behind AH DRGs in KRT.

Where are you getting any of this bullshit? Ridill WARs and BB MNKs were just as good as they were before, and a party with them can still pull ~25k/hour. Even if two-handed melee ARE better than these Ridill WARs or BB MNKs (most of which are not), they can't be THAT much better for the EXP simply because there is no camp in the game that can support a party that kills faster than 3x Ridill WAR/NIN, 2x BRD and RDM. Already a party with that setup has trouble killing SLOW enough to keep their chain continuous and keep the EXP high. If your 3x SAM party kills faster than that, you'd run out of mobs and the EXP would in turn be lower because you'd lose chain on 7 or 8 every time.

Stop fucking whining because a well-equipped two-hander can now outparse you in a merit party. Your EXP hasn't changed at all, and you'll still get invites. Your weird fucking vision of an AH DRG getting an invite over a Ridill WAR is absolutely retarded.

[ringthree]

Square makes an update where two-handed weapons become godly, setting the former paradigm on fire and adrift on an iceberg. After several days of riots and anarchy, they announce that the buff was not what they intended, they lower the amount of the buff but still make two-handed weapons much better than they were before.

Afterwards two-handed weapon users are on the same level as comparatively equipped one-handed weapon users and the loldrg/drk/sam stigma is shattered.

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but maybe this was the plan from the get go...

Septimus is being optimistic. SE must have done SOMETHING right.

Nope, its pretty much the 6th sign of the Apocalypse. If someone beats AV within the next week, the gates to Hell open and we are all headed for the big weenie-roast.

[Ryko]

Where are you getting any of this bullshit? Ridill WARs and BB MNKs were just as good as they were before, and a party with them can still pull ~25k/hour. Even if two-handed melee ARE better than these Ridill WARs or BB MNKs (most of which are not), they can't be THAT much better for the EXP simply because there is no camp in the game that can support a party that kills faster than 3x Ridill WAR/NIN, 2x BRD and RDM. Already a party with that setup has trouble killing SLOW enough to keep their chain continuous and keep the EXP high. If your 3x SAM party kills faster than that, you'd run out of mobs and the EXP would in turn be lower because you'd lose chain on 7 or 8 every time.

Uh, I can pace myself on WAR/NIN by just not WSing or getting TP cleared if we're going too fast so as to avoid killing wivres. As a SAM a majority of my damage is coming from my weapon skills so not WSing or getting TP cleared is a lot dumber than doing it on a DPS class like WAR/NIN. Even pulling from both levels of colibri last night we still went faster than I've ever gone in war parties and completely decimated the wivres too just because they were there. Granted beckwin and I are extremely well geared but not any moreso than the WARs you know I party with.

[Therin]

Also, I would like to add that I think two-handed damage on HNMs is far too powerful. 2005 damage from a SAM/WAR to a Greater Colibri in a merit party is fine - 2005 damage to Tiamat, on the other hand, is stupid. This should be corrected - the state of merit parties are fine, however.

In fact I would argue that this update makes it better for a majority of melee because very few of you people actually have WAR or MNK ONLY leveled, so now you get to take advantage of meriting on multiple classes. Also, more people are going to meriting in general so your chances of getting a successful party are great increased.

*EDIT* Okay Ryko - so you're pulling 30k/hour versus 25k/hour. Dual wielders have been dethroned perhaps, but is that slight setback enough to make you whine, gripe, moan, and complain when you can still merit just as well as you could before?

[Tajin]

Whoosh Ryko, and Therin too 8)



Unless he was being serious ._.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Whoosh Ryko, and Therin too 8)



Unless he was being serious ._.

I think he was

[Ryko]

Whoosh Ryko, and Therin too 8)



Unless he was being serious ._.

I was ignoring khamsin's post completely and only replying to therin, I definitely wasn't wooshed.

*EDIT* Okay Ryko - so you're pulling 30k/hour versus 25k/hour. Dual wielders have been dethroned perhaps, but is that slight setback enough to make you whine, gripe, moan, and complain when you can still merit just as well as you could before?

You mean so snap into a slimjim over there with you can rock mobs for 2100+? Damn right it is, cuz it took 3 damn days for people to realize I wasn't overreacting about the pDIF, and DEX obsoleting gear and food options. I already acknowledged I might have overestmated an AH SAM compared to a merited one but I was dead on about the rest. When a SAM whose only haste and merits are an ace's helm and 1 GK merit is still doing enough damage to make a mob's lifespan last short enough to make my DPS advantage moot I'm going to be ticked off.

[Tajin]

Well fuck you and your Aegis then




@Maxxan: then im the one whooshed

[BRP]

Uhhh, I don't know whether to be worried or hopeful. I mean does SE know it's more of problem with accuracy than it is with attack?

[Kyreth]

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but maybe this was the plan from the get go...

Never attribute to smarts what should be attributed to Sundi. But it does follow a law of MMORPG alteration- make a big change, adjust it to appropriate levels shortly afterwards to avoid too much player whining.

Though I think that yes, assuming this doesn't swing things back too far we've broken the mold finally. Twohanders are viable again for general use, and jobs using them aren't looked at with general derision (DRK and DRG, most notably).

[Amele]

Uhhh, I don't know whether to be worried or hopeful. I mean does SE know it's more of problem with accuracy than it is with attack?

given the wording, I believe SE is fixing an error with how they intended it to work and not with what we think/feel/know/etc the problem is.

it's gotta be something to do with the pdif caps for regular/crit hits at the upper end.

[LD]

Uhhh, I don't know whether to be worried or hopeful. I mean does SE know it's more of problem with accuracy than it is with attack?

In a way, neither is a problem by itself, it's the two together that's creating...this.
If there were no pDIF adjustments, 2H would have an accuracy adjantage, but damage probably wouldn't be so dramatic.
If there were no DEX:Acc conversion, 2H could hit the high notes, but they'd still have to focus some gear on accuracy, meaning they would have less of an ability.

[Highlulu]

How can you say this with a straight face? Emphasis my own. Drgs were concerned about getting to PLAY, the party was concerned with inviting such a gimpy DD, and you monks are the ones obsessed with your "bestest damage".

Job change button is there for a reason. If you want to play the job with the highest merit DD, play the job with the highest merit DD instead of bitching that your job which has utility that is intended (but fails) to offset their weakness in merit should also have highest merit DD.

exactly, so take your butthurt ass and level sam now

[Septimus]

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but maybe this was the plan from the get go...

Never attribute to smarts what should be attributed to Sundi. But it does follow a law of MMORPG alteration- make a big change, adjust it to appropriate levels shortly afterwards to avoid too much player whining.

Though I think that yes, assuming this doesn't swing things back too far we've broken the mold finally. Twohanders are viable again for general use, and jobs using them aren't looked at with general derision (DRK and DRG, most notably).

Everyone has to admit that Square has been MUCH better about updates trying to make the playerbase happy since ToAU came out. I think that they realized that while it is their game, we are the ones who pay for it so they do need to listen to us at least sometimes. After they fix whatever it is they are going to fix, I think people will be a lot happier with the results.

Don't disappoint me Square.

[Ryko]

How can you say this with a straight face? Emphasis my own. Drgs were concerned about getting to PLAY, the party was concerned with inviting such a gimpy DD, and you monks are the ones obsessed with your "bestest damage".

Job change button is there for a reason. If you want to play the job with the highest merit DD, play the job with the highest merit DD instead of bitching that your job which has utility that is intended (but fails) to offset their weakness in merit should also have highest merit DD.

exactly, so take your butthurt ass and level sam now

Do you have nin leveled?