Current Known Issues (Aug. 30)

[Nagamaki]

The concept of pdif isn't all that complicated, there really isn't anything complicated in FF math. Damage is X multiplied by Y, pdif is Y. Make Y bigger, damage goes up

Anyway, they screwed up a lot in this update even if you believe every aspect of the two-hander adjustment was on purpose, from JoL no longer having Enfeebling or Elemental skills but still having Divine (which would make him a PLD now as far as skills go) to Despot basically no longer existing, we'll find out what bits were on purpose and what bits were fuckups. Hell they've left similar fuckups unfixed for a really freaking long time, I should go solo some light ghrahs to see if they finally gave them divine skill this update, after over 2 whole years being in the game. Maybe that's what they were fixing except they gave it to damn near everything instead, I wouldn't put it past them.

[Highlulu]

Maybe that's what they were fixing except they gave it to damn near everything instead, I wouldn't put it past them.

i would believe it lol

[Amele]

So funny most of us knew this fix would come since its obviously far from correct.
When i told my LS they will fix it, all SAMs and DRGs said nope because this is what SE intended, too bad i won, like always.

I wouldn't be saying that until you see *how* they fix it.

all they've said is it's wrong (and it is! crit at 3.0 = 3.0 is silly and shouldn't be right) but for all any of us know, that means SE is putting it to 4.0 crits.

I think they'll drop it down a little, say 2.5-3.5. but if they dial 1h back up to 2.4 then don't be at all surprised to see 2h's stay at 3.0/3.5 or 3.0/4.0

Two things make me highly doubt this.

First, if it was another boost two-handers were getting they would just ninja it in. I think they would only mention it if we were getting the wrong results and they were going to "nerf" it back down to what it should be.

The second thing is my gut. It just feels unbalanced right now. I just think there is a problem with the pDIF universally, for both 1h and 2h, and thats what they are going to fix.

BTW, I love saying pDIF as if I knew all about it or something. LOL I understand the basic workings of it, but the way I and others have been talking about it, it feels like we are all talking about rocket science like it was something that we all understand, and that everyone should just fundamental get ballistic trajectories.

ballistic trajectories aren't fundamentel? :wink: (I do have a pretty good understanding of pdif, actually - except for a few things like the exact distribution of the return value of func_pdif(cRatio) etc.)

I said what I did because of several clues, some conjecture and a pretty good idea of what's going on at the moment.

before, if cRatio was > 2.0 they clamped cRatio to 2.0 before putting it into the func_pdif(cRatio) function.

now, they let cRatio vary and just clamp the return.

so now it works (algorithmically) something like this:
func_pdif(cRatio) returns pdif. (when cRatio is high, this is cRatio * 1.2 - 0~>0.8)
if 2H and pdif > 3.0 then pdif = 3.0
else if pdif > 2.0 then pdif = 2.0 (this is possibly an error)
if crit then pdif = pdif + 1.0
if pdif > 3.0 then pdif = 3.0 (this part didn't change)

based on this phrase: "The damage ratings upper limit isn't being corrected properly" could mean a couple things.

1: it has to do with wrank (which we've all been assuming didn't change - I don't believe it did)
2: it has to do with the level correction part of the cRatio function, and is probably 'too high'. in this case, a change would result in less damage to say, fafnir, but no significant change in exp.
3: it has to do with the clamp on pdif_max (to 3.0) we can safely assume that SE did not intend the clamp to be the same as 1handers (or they wouldn't have touched the pdif function returns / final calculations and just messed with cRatio / STR = ATT / DEX = ACC / etc. ) so it's possible this is meant to be lower. (but not 2.0)
4: it has to do with the clamp on crits (to 3.0) since it's really weird that SE would implement a change (if it was intended) that would guarantee the usefulness of crits to 1h users, and also make crits totally useless to 2h users at the upper end. it's possible this is meant to be higher

I can't think of anything else it might be really (but please feel free to add something if anyone can think of an area I missed.)

I'm expecting to see some combination of 3 and 4. possibly with an adjustment to 1h back to a 1.6~>2.4 variance at 2.0cRatio.

but it wouldn't surprise me if they mean 1. or 2. either.

about your gut: the one good (non rkenshin) parse I've seen so far, has a drg and drk hanging with a (near peak, but not perfect) war/ridill in comparable (but not peak) gear. yes, they talk about the drg and drk holding back a little, but this isn't different than monk/war before, and the war/ridill *was* tanking which is a couple points off too.

either way, I wouldn't trust your gut when it comes to SE. it's been pretty clear from alot of the old (sponsored) job write ups that SE intended 2h jobs to be the best damage. they succeeded.

rolling back the pdif cap slide more than a minor amount just risks making gear pointless for 2H jobs -and- leaving them weaker than 1h jobs, which is beyond nonsensical.

they've done positive corrections with announcements too (I know they ninja'd steam cleaner back in etc.) which is why I stated that, while I don't expect this change to be "all upside"; people shouldn't be operating under the assumption that this is going to be a nerf either.

[ringthree]

The concept of pdif isn't all that complicated, there really isn't anything complicated in FF math. Damage is X multiplied by Y, pdif is Y. Make Y bigger, damage goes up

Yes, yes, easy for the rocket scientist to say. LOL

Rocket goes up, rocket comes down, boom.

I don't mind talking about it because I did take years and years of calculus so I understand functions and stuff, but it still feel like I am being pompous when I throw around pDIF as if it was an old friend. LOL

Anyway, they screwed up a lot in this update even if you believe every aspect of the two-hander adjustment was on purpose, from JoL no longer having Enfeebling or Elemental skills but still having Divine (which would make him a PLD now as far as skills go) to Despot basically no longer existing, we'll find out what bits were on purpose and what bits were fuckups. Hell they've left similar fuckups unfixed for a really freaking long time, I should go solo some light ghrahs to see if they finally gave them divine skill this update, after over 2 whole years being in the game. Maybe that's what they were fixing except they gave it to damn near everything instead, I wouldn't put it past them.

LOL, yes, this isn't just a 2h vs 1h issue, there is some grand underlying bork of a colossal scale here. Some thing is fundamentally wrong.

[ringthree]

So funny most of us knew this fix would come since its obviously far from correct.
When i told my LS they will fix it, all SAMs and DRGs said nope because this is what SE intended, too bad i won, like always.

I wouldn't be saying that until you see *how* they fix it.

all they've said is it's wrong (and it is! crit at 3.0 = 3.0 is silly and shouldn't be right) but for all any of us know, that means SE is putting it to 4.0 crits.

I think they'll drop it down a little, say 2.5-3.5. but if they dial 1h back up to 2.4 then don't be at all surprised to see 2h's stay at 3.0/3.5 or 3.0/4.0

Two things make me highly doubt this.

First, if it was another boost two-handers were getting they would just ninja it in. I think they would only mention it if we were getting the wrong results and they were going to "nerf" it back down to what it should be.

The second thing is my gut. It just feels unbalanced right now. I just think there is a problem with the pDIF universally, for both 1h and 2h, and thats what they are going to fix.

BTW, I love saying pDIF as if I knew all about it or something. LOL I understand the basic workings of it, but the way I and others have been talking about it, it feels like we are all talking about rocket science like it was something that we all understand, and that everyone should just fundamental get ballistic trajectories.

ballistic trajectories aren't fundamentel? :wink: (I do have a pretty good understanding of pdif, actually - except for a few things like the exact distribution of the return value of func_pdif(cRatio) etc.)

I said what I did because of several clues, some conjecture and a pretty good idea of what's going on at the moment.

before, if cRatio was > 2.0 they clamped cRatio to 2.0 before putting it into the func_pdif(cRatio) function.

now, they let cRatio vary and just clamp the return.

so now it works (algorithmically) something like this:
func_pdif(cRatio) returns pdif. (when cRatio is high, this is cRatio * 1.2 - 0~>0.8)
if 2H and pdif > 3.0 then pdif = 3.0
else if pdif > 2.0 then pdif = 2.0 (this is possibly an error)
if crit then pdif = pdif + 1.0
if pdif > 3.0 then pdif = 3.0 (this part didn't change)

based on this phrase: "The damage ratings upper limit isn't being corrected properly" could mean a couple things.

1: it has to do with wrank (which we've all been assuming didn't change - I don't believe it did)
2: it has to do with the level correction part of the cRatio function, and is probably 'too high'. in this case, a change would result in less damage to say, fafnir, but no significant change in exp.
3: it has to do with the clamp on pdif_max (to 3.0) we can safely assume that SE did not intend the clamp to be the same as 1handers (or they wouldn't have touched the pdif function returns / final calculations and just messed with cRatio / STR = ATT / DEX = ACC / etc. ) so it's possible this is meant to be lower. (but not 2.0)
4: it has to do with the clamp on crits (to 3.0) since it's really weird that SE would implement a change (if it was intended) that would guarantee the usefulness of crits to 1h users, and also make crits totally useless to 2h users at the upper end. it's possible this is meant to be higher

I can't think of anything else it might be really (but please feel free to add something if anyone can think of an area I missed.)

I'm expecting to see some combination of 3 and 4. possibly with an adjustment to 1h back to a 1.6~>2.4 variance at 2.0cRatio.

but it wouldn't surprise me if they mean 1. or 2. either.

about your gut: the one good (non rkenshin) parse I've seen so far, has a drg and drk hanging with a (near peak, but not perfect) war/ridill in comparable (but not peak) gear. yes, they talk about the drg and drk holding back a little, but this isn't different than monk/war before, and the war/ridill *was* tanking which is a couple points off too.

either way, I wouldn't trust your gut when it comes to SE. it's been pretty clear from alot of the old (sponsored) job write ups that SE intended 2h jobs to be the best damage. they succeeded.

rolling back the pdif cap slide more than a minor amount just risks making gear pointless for 2H jobs -and- leaving them weaker than 1h jobs, which is beyond nonsensical.

they've done positive corrections with announcements too (I know they ninja'd steam cleaner back in etc.) which is why I stated that, while I don't expect this change to be "all upside"; people shouldn't be operating under the assumption that this is going to be a nerf either.

Great... look what you have done... after reading this there is blood trickling out of my ears. LOL

[Talisien]

based on this phrase: "The damage ratings upper limit isn't being corrected properly" could mean a couple things.

1: it has to do with wrank (which we've all been assuming didn't change - I don't believe it did)
2: it has to do with the level correction part of the cRatio function, and is probably 'too high'. in this case, a change would result in less damage to say, fafnir, but no significant change in exp.
3: it has to do with the clamp on pdif_max (to 3.0) we can safely assume that SE did not intend the clamp to be the same as 1handers (or they wouldn't have touched the pdif function returns / final calculations and just messed with cRatio / STR = ATT / DEX = ACC / etc. ) so it's possible this is meant to be lower. (but not 2.0)
4: it has to do with the clamp on crits (to 3.0) since it's really weird that SE would implement a change (if it was intended) that would guarantee the usefulness of crits to 1h users, and also make crits totally useless to 2h users at the upper end. it's possible this is meant to be higher

I can't think of anything else it might be really (but please feel free to add something if anyone can think of an area I missed.)

I'm expecting to see some combination of 3 and 4. possibly with an adjustment to 1h back to a 1.6~>2.4 variance at 2.0cRatio.

but it wouldn't surprise me if they mean 1. or 2. either.

Personally I'm thinking it's going to be 3, since it solves the same problem as 4 but doesn't make two-handers even better, and 2, presumably because they figured why not overshoot and then scale back than undershoot.

The 2.4 -> 2.0 cap was weird, and for my money, unjustified.

That's what I hope anyway.

[Amele]

it's worth reiterating I think, that the pdif 2.0 clamp on 1h jobs only affects people with total attack above ~650-800 (depending on what we're talking about exactly) which, while achievable, will require somewhere in the area of 90-230 attack gained from gear attack and strength on an A- job (full merits+torque) after taking out food and 2x minuet.

so we're not talking about something a wal-mart mnk/nin/thf will really see, except when they're in berserk mode (and sometimes not even then) assuming they even /war.

of course, the most outspoken members of the career 1handers (including monk as a 1h job) are the ones who aren't ah and will run into this change quite regularly.

it seems clear that the whole thing isn't working correctly though (primarily because mob damage is so strange lately.)

[VZX]

now, they let cRatio vary and just clamp the return.

Huh?

Someone help me please.
Was there a thread for this that I missed? It seems claiming cRatio varies in short period of time without any proper test is jumping into conclusion too fast.

Probably it's easier if you can draw current's pDIF graph

[Amele]

now, they let cRatio vary and just clamp the return.

Huh?

Someone help me please.
Was there a thread for this that I missed? It seems claiming cRatio varies in short period of time without any proper test is jumping into conclusion too fast.

Probably it's easier if you can draw current's pDIF graph

poor wording on my part, I should've said - cRatio slides (higher than 2.0) but they clamp the return result of func_pdif(cRatio).

cRatio is still a constant, it's just that the function return of pdif has been extended past func_pdif(2.0) without apparently changing the nature of the random pdif function, the simple solution to how to do this is to allow cRatio to grow beyond 2.0 (which it does clearly for 2H jobs and appears to do for 1H jobs which vary 1.6->2.0 at 2.0 and 2.0->2.0 at 2.4)

easiest test will be any 1hander with exactly 2.0 cRatio, then 2.4+ cRatio.
if my claim is correct.

sorry for any confusion.

[megabyte]

I wouldn't be saying that until you see *how* they fix it.

all they've said is it's wrong (and it is! crit at 3.0 = 3.0 is silly and shouldn't be right) but for all any of us know, that means SE is putting it to 4.0 crits.

This happens and I am sneak attacking Fafnir from now on.

[Pix!]

Thx SE.. was fun while it lasted.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...n2000/Crit.jpg

[Ohemgee]

tan? = sin?/cos?

HOLY FUCK ANOTHER pDIF FORMULA.

[Priran]

tan? = sin?

??????????????????????????????????????????????

[Lordender]

lame if SE waits until sept 11th to patch this cause as of now most people are on hold to see if they should switch merits around, buy other gear set up's until people see if anything gets ninja'ed.

[Ohemgee]

tan? = sin?

??????????????????????????????????????????????

Sorry I was in the 10th dimension.

[Arcien]

has any maat cap user(s) post opinion here in this thread? im just interested how this update affect them in any possible way.

[Plow]

I have to comment on the FFTactics stuff.

Overpowered in FFT was calculator and dancer.


You can pretty much own the entire game with one of each, and use ramza and a mime to steal shit lol.


Enough mimed slow dance will basically have it where the enemy never attacks, and a calculator is powerful enough to completely control the entire fight from the very back, virtually regardless of what happens to any and everyone else.


Lancers and Knights and shit were cool, but Calculator absolutely blew everything else in that game completely out of the water, and not just in damage, rezzing/healing basically anyone from anywhere was insane.

Exhibit A: If I'm playing with that setup it's not uncommon for me to wipe out most of my team (sometimes even the calculator himself lol) in order to do the same to the opponents, knowing I can reraise or have my dancer/monk rez the calculator and rez my whole damn team at once lol.

[Zilong]

calculator is such a shitty base class though, low MA, low speed, fuck, low everything.

However, subbing it to any mage class...

I think I had Reis on calculator with her retardedly high base stats on dragoner class +equip sword for dual rune blade + assorted +MA gears, and just holying the shit out of everything is too easy when all your frontline has excal...

[StaplerGuy]

Exhibit A: If I'm playing with that setup it's not uncommon for me to wipe out most of my team (sometimes even the calculator himself lol) in order to do the same to the opponents, knowing I can reraise or have my dancer/monk rez the calculator and rez my whole damn team at once lol.

Just make all your guys wear something that absorbs Holy. Then you wipe out everyone else and HEAL your team <_<

Actually mostly just get gear that nullifies it, but whatever, principle's the same.

[Khrno]

Now talking about FFTA, PLD/NIN was really overpowered, not like in FFXI that they are just tanks, but besides taking hits for almost like nothing, they were able to dual wield swords, doing "massive amounts of damage" just like in Genji.

But anyway, they could literally spam Holy Blade and Saint Cross and own all the Dark Knight bosses as if they were nothing.

Nerf PLD/NINs for TA2.