Current Known Issues (Aug. 30)

[Siatdiat]

[quote=suji]

black sheep. >_>

What is that supposed to mean? I'm not playing the omfg im an emo bst card. I'm just pointing out you stated something thats incorrect as if it was a fact.

I just interpreted your first sentence as "omfg u guyz will never understand us ; ;". I apologize.

Best part is that you were more correct than him and you didn't even flip out. Like Lily said, there was definitely TP loss for wild pets, but I suppose if you are a BST who always uses jug pets you may not have noticed. 8)[/quote:c61e2]


Fair enough. Since I soloed to trioed my way to 75 BST before the nerf, by charming pet, engaging it on mob, leaving and finishing off with ws, I guess I never had a chance to actually gauge this on wild pets. I wasn't charming shit and keeping it out for lulz. Only time I ever used jugs was BCNMs and some farming. Regardless the limiting factor of pet TP has always been Sic timer. You totally owned me with that smily face though, dude. 8) :D

[Ryko]

Considering I wasn't the only one to respond in kind, the point is probably that you're a moron.

Try again.

You're functionally retarded, so I chose not to reply to you. But, for everyone else's benefit:

To me in all honesty it just sounds like they're fixing pDIF, and nothing else.

Ding ding ding. They'll probably lower the pDIF cap so /thf isn't completely useless on HNMs and crits are a bit more. . worthwhile.

SAM75/THF15 were Sneak Attacking Fafnir for the past few days?

"There are more HNMs than fafnir", nevermind the fact that you didnt need SA to hit 3.0 anyway.

Ryko asserts that /THF is completely useless on HNMs (including ones besides Fafnir).
I mentioned that people might be using /THF for more than what /THF15 gives you (aka Sneak Attack).
A pile on of mental defectives ensues with all said retards not knowing that Trick Attack still works without Assassin.

I color coded this post so maybe Ryko's keepers can explain it to her.

You mentioned fafnir, no samurai is subbing thief on fafnir or any HNM you have to claim. For the other HNMs, generally thief was being subbed for SA, not TA.

[evilpaul]

[quote=Ryko]

Considering I wasn't the only one to respond in kind, the point is probably that you're a moron.

Try again.

You're functionally retarded, so I chose not to reply to you. But, for everyone else's benefit:

To me in all honesty it just sounds like they're fixing pDIF, and nothing else.

Ding ding ding. They'll probably lower the pDIF cap so /thf isn't completely useless on HNMs and crits are a bit more. . worthwhile.

SAM75/THF15 were Sneak Attacking Fafnir for the past few days?

"There are more HNMs than fafnir", nevermind the fact that you didnt need SA to hit 3.0 anyway.

Ryko asserts that /THF is completely useless on HNMs (including ones besides Fafnir).
I mentioned that people might be using /THF for more than what /THF15 gives you (aka Sneak Attack).
A pile on of mental defectives ensues with all said retards not knowing that Trick Attack still works without Assassin.

I color coded this post so maybe Ryko's keepers can explain it to her.

You mentioned fafnir, no samurai is subbing thief on fafnir, shut up.[/quote:17c74]Oh snap I got pwned!

[ringthree]

Just to wrap the DRG thing up as I see it.

Jump & High Jump recast cut in half.
Healing Breath auto-Activation on Melee sub Wyvern at 25% HP.

There, you made you more powerful and gave you a unique support ability.
Mazel Tov.

And DRG's would still gain zero invites compared to a MNK. Oh thanks for the super-awesome improvements.

Just stop, you are going to embarrass yourself like Aurik did.

Really? So you wouldn't want those improvements then.

Oh, don't take away our imaginary improvements! ; ;

The reason they changed the damage of two-handed weapons was because there was a massive imbalance in damage. Giving shorter jumps and more healing wouldn't change the fact at all that people didn't invite DRG's because they... and I will say this slowly so its easily understood... did... not... do... enough... damage.

(And if you think that shorter jumps would have made up for the disparity between MNK's and DRG's in sheer damage, counting both jump damage and extra TP for WS, then you really know nothing at all about the job and have no right to claim you have an educated opinion on anything.)

[Akanei]

Which brings me right back to what I said in the first place.

Considering SAM75/WAR37 were doing similar-to-SA damage from ANYWHERE around the mob, I would say that's a little bit broken.

Tell me, if YOU did SA damage, on /war, would YOU sub thf at all? Hell, I don't know many SAM in my LS that doesn't go /war, even before the patch.

[Cjskater]

colors are vital to proving my point

[Ryko]

Oh snap I got pwned!

Edited for your edification.

[Talisien]

l t

I skim, sue me.

Still, this is effectively doubling your damage output and the patch isn't being completely taken away.

Either the issue is the damage, or it's not. Get your story straight. No one cares that a Monk hits stuff with his fists, and the Dragoon hits stuff with the Polearm, and the Dark Knight with a Scythe, etc etc etc. The jobs are about hitting things for damage. It's why you're invited to the party, it's why the patch was needed, it's why Drgs and Drks get to merit now instead of sitting in the Mog House.

ps the acc thing is still retarded.

No, if it were just about damage, I could sub /WAR. It's about efficiency, and a DRG who can heal others for no MP while doing decent and accumulating less net hate is just that, efficient.

This wildly misses the point. We're talking about Monk versus Dragoon regarding job balance, specifically, their ability do deal damage. The solo stuff is besides the point, the subjob stuff is besides the point. It's simply about, do you get an invite to the party to deal damage, or don't you.

Now everyone does.

Before only Monks and Warriors did.

You've been reading the forums, you know why Drgs and Drks get invites now. I don't need to explain it to you just like you don't need to explain the pros/cons of sub /nin to this crowd as if it changes the fundamental issue here - balancing DD jobs so they're all invited to DD.

[Shuemue]

k...

This has gone far enough.

Fix my fucking BLM so I can get 30k/hr like melee DDs please.

[layoneil]

l t

I skim, sue me.

Still, this is effectively doubling your damage output and the patch isn't being completely taken away.

did i misunderstand your question/comment than?

Really? So you wouldn't want those improvements then.

you're saying if SE wants to buff Wyverns breaths and Jump more, would DRGs want it right? i'm sure most of them will but there's almost no amount of buffing that can be done in this area that will make people want to invite them.

in a game that's based primarily on doing stuff with 6, 18, 30+ people. hybrid jobs suck, you want each person to excel in a certain area and than the group as a whole functions well in a group.

in large alliances, CORs sub WHM and rely completely on their support role.

a SMN is a hybrid job. on HNMs, their buffs are given up almost completely so they have MP to constantly do Damage BPs, in other situations, their Damage BPs are given up nearly completely for buffs and MP for Cures.

a hybrid DD dragoon + support wyvern will fail in most situations. until the wyvern breaths are buffed to the point that a DRGs actual damage can be considered irrelevant, all of those improvements will fail in the eyes of the general populace.

so now with this patch, SE finally gave in and decided those support breaths is what can be considered irrelevant.

[Seraph]

In my mind, MNK and WARs should be at the top of the damage world. Mind you, not by the insane amount they were before, but at least a decent amount...

SAMs get the benefit of being weaponskill fiends, THFs get to be the TH bitches (as much as they hate that functionality sometimes, they still have it.) DRGs are somewhat unique as a damage dealer that can function as a super efficient backup healer. DRKs have been given more options with their new spells, specifically Abs-TP. They get to WS more (and stun), and fall closer to the world of the SAM than the world of the MNK or WAR in my eyes. Everyone gets a little something special at the cost of not being king of DoT.

I can see where the MNKs get mad for being knocked off the top, and I can see why DRGs are getting so cocky because they have been shit on so long.

Assuming they fix the issue with the insane upper damage on 2 handed weapons, and possibly fix the weird cap on H2H TW damage, does anyone have a reason to complain anymore? It's so sad to see so many people ranting and raving about who should outdamage who. Damage dealers have to cope with the fact that their jobs sometimes have more functionality than just cranking out numbers. This goes for MNKs and WARs too. Perhaps the game has gotten too much about numbers to the point where people forgot why they leveled the job in the first place. Too many people crying about parses for my enjoyment. It's become more like an occupation and less like a game.

With that being said, I'll go back to drooling over Shield Bash in all it's glory...

[evilpaul]

Tell me, if YOU did SA damage, on /war, would YOU sub thf at all? Hell, I don't know many SAM in my LS that doesn't go /war, even before the patch.

Ryko and Beckwin assured me that your LS was not the typical LS pre-patch because you weren't afraid of mobs' TP moves, using melees on HNMs, etc. I'll take their word for it.

Other LSes might still use /THF on other servers because Trick Attack allows a person to place the Trick Attacked attack on the person he or she Trick Attacked it on to.

[Siatdiat]

Interests me that they only mention an issue with 2h weapon dmg and not 1h or h2h.

I don't give a flying fuck how much dmg a DRG does, as long as I still feel superior.

lmao that's basically the sum of the patch reaction

At least I'm honest.

I wrote a really funny response to this but after reviewing it realized it might have gotten me banned from this forum.

[Gerkin]

According to the JP PlayOnline, they are specifically altering the upper limit on damage dealt. Sounds like regular strikes will get a lower cap and crits will have a purpose again.

why the fuck does JP POL get detailed information, and NA POL gets "Something is not working as intended"

Heres a few reasons off the top of my head:

*NA's dont speak japanese, and they put so much work into informing the JP public, that by the time they get to the NA community they are just tired of talking.

*NA's are inherently angry about everything, so if they give us reasons to be angry, then we dont think of other reasons to be angry with them. NA's are inherently imaginative as well. We can think of some crazy reasons to hate you.

*Because NA's Like Haiku's... And instead of worrying about the content of their announcements to us, they focus more on the amount of words in their sentences.

[fantasticdan]

No, if it were just about damage, I could sub /WAR. It's about efficiency, and a DRG who can heal others for no MP while doing decent damage and accumulating less net hate is just that, efficient.

Yeah, it's efficient in the situation where it's actually usable, which is to say not very often. For healing breath to be useful you need to be:

-subbing mage obviously and gimping your damage
-people in your party need to be taking enough single target/cone damage for you to cure, that your healer(s) cannot handle (no shadows?..)
-party members need to be able to go below 50% max health without risk of dying. (mobs need to be offensively weak)
-mob(s) can't use aoe damage, or it will kill wyvern.

This is no where near as useful as just having an mp pool and being able to cast cures(AND OTHER FUCKING SPELLS), like blu or whm puppet.

Drg really needed this update, at least some of it. I tried to level drg, but dropped it. Why? Because it was completely useless compared to other jobs. Blu single-handedly outclassed drg in EVERY AREA, including healing and physical dd, ontop of being able to do a plethora of other things, which is what I chose to level instead. Now drg is just solid DD, and can deal more physical damage than the real hybrid melee (blu), which is fair.

[Shuemue]

Interests me that they only mention an issue with 2h weapon dmg and not 1h or h2h.

I don't give a flying fuck how much dmg a DRG does, as long as I still feel superior.

lmao that's basically the sum of the patch reaction

At least I'm honest.

I wrote a really funny response to this but after reviewing it realized it might have gotten me banned from this forum.

PM me it, I'm in the mood for a laugh.

[alphacat]

I thought this was a joke post at first, to piss off the people QQing over the 2-hand update.

This makes me glad though, I loved being godlike but at the same time I want to be considered equal with my fellow melee counterparts. Winning the parse just for being a 2-hander isn't nearly as satisfying.

See, this is why I like all you sam/drg/drks. It's like feeding a starving man a feast, then taking away everything, and only leaving the bread. The starving man would still be thankful. Before the update, the war/mnk would never give a flying fuck how useless sam/drg/drks are, and the numerous hours you guys seek for. I like how after you guys obtain godlike buff, you still think about your fellow 1H users.

Bravo. Bravo.

[LD]

No, you are missing the point. When did I say I'd be taking away the 2H adjustment?

This is how it works Pre-patch.

“I'm a Monk. My raw DOT is high, but at my core, I have no means to reliably and adequately disperse the hate I generate. I must use a sub-job that is far less powerful than another simply to stay alive and not be a drain on the PT, thus slowing it down.”

“I'm a Dragoon. My DOT is low. I have abilities to supplement this, but I am out shined because my damage simply cannot catch up.”

Now, this is how I'm saying it should work.

“I'm a Monk. My raw DOT is high, but at my core, I have no means to reliably and adequately disperse the hate I generate. I must use a sub-job that is far less powerful than another simply to stay alive and not be a drain on the PT, thus slowing it down.”

“I'm a Dragoon. I have been recently enhanced so that my DOT is closer to that of a MNK, yet it is still inferior. However, I have Jump, which gives me instant damage, High jump, which adds damage and cuts my hate in half, and a Wyvern that can deal its own damage and heal me and my comrades when our HP gets too low. Because of my Jumps and Wyvern, not only do I do nearly as much damage as a MNK, I can push my damage dealing abilities almost to their limit, potentially surpassing a MNK/NIN, without dying or taxing the main healer. Only a MNK/WAR would be more powerful, but even my healing abilities are not enough to fully support it, because too much hate would fall on my Wyvern and it would be killed.”


You were just enhanced. You like it. No one is taking it away entirely. Everyone knows the playing field had to be evened, and it has been. Now you can do good damage, and after this patch, you'll probably be behind us again. However a few good fixes can make your auto-attacks count for less of what makes you a Dragoon.

This is all aurik was saying and it makes sense, if you're unique traits could be used to their fullest, MNK could be better at raw DOT while you still had a purpose. You got an extra 12 acc out of this last update, so if they hadn't done the DEX:Acc thing, you would be the ones who could actually stack on more att instead of everybody with a staff between their hands.
It just doesn't seem that way because you've been so concerned about your damage that you forgot you can actually be unique.

[Attila]

There is no reason being punched should be more damaging than being gutted by a giant lance.

[Damane]

this is good news. hopefully now they find the Balance inbetween.