BST Scythe

[Isiolia]

Whatchoo talkin about willis. Zamtard BST are the ones who cried untill jugs were no longer exp leeches so they can exp in parties!

SE did that at the same time they did the despawn nerf. Nobody whined until it was implemented, it came out of nowhere, just like the charmed mob XP penalty removal.

Wrath Tabar...ick...such crappy DPS. He shoulda been using Tungi offhand at least, with Sushi he shouldn't need the Viking.

I haven't really seen many results pointing towards Scythe being that good for general purpose DD later on. 100% TP Spiral Hell numbers generally seem worse than Rampage, and Temperance Axe > Bahamut's Zaghnal.

The bigger question for me is why after the no-XP-loss change were neither of you using charmed pets? At 63 you can quite readily find EM pets around in the tree, which woulda been much better damage than the jugs you had.

I don't know, I myself use and will continue to use a Wrath Tabar. I pair it up with Sentinel Shield for good effects, I hit a bit slower, but its not something that makes a huge difference. Higher damage and Rampage, its fine with me.

At any rate, the reason I wasn't using charmed pets was because I left my Apollo's at my Mog House, incidently. I brought an EM Spider with me to use, but when I went to reapply my Charm after a round, it failed, I used Tame, it was gone. So I just pulled out Funguar, which caps at level 65, no? Funguar has always been my pet of choice, probably will be until 66-67, if I can stretch it out that far. Silence Gas and Dark Spore is nothing to scoff at.

I don't know, it seems Scythe could be much better until 55 or 56 or whatever it was until you get Rampage. Nightmare Scythe is actually a decent lower level WS, and the added Blind is nice for soloing too.

Any BST's got /SAM leveled? Maybe it would be worth it to try Hasso?

Wrath just has low DPS due to long delay. Sentinel Shield won't make up for that...you're basically meleeing with Slow on. It's not as bad as the offhand Viking, but neither are optimal. Francisca/Tungi would be stronger damage, and free to boot. Figure, damage is higher on the Wrath, but a Tungi is swinging 6 times for every 5 of the Wrath...4 base damage (and whatever the 7 STR nets you) won't add up to another full hit.

Jug pets may cap at a certain level, but they don't pop at that level guaranteed. You aren't getting a level 63 funguar calling Funguarfamiliar at level 63...though you could have a level 63 funguar by charming it. Or one of several other EM pets. You're basically getting a weakened EP mob by calling a jug. Not so much an axe/scythe issue, but as BST damage in a party it just made me wonder.

[Metah]

Whatchoo talkin about willis. Zamtard BST are the ones who cried untill jugs were no longer exp leeches so they can exp in parties!

SE did that at the same time they did the despawn nerf. Nobody whined until it was implemented, it came out of nowhere, just like the charmed mob XP penalty removal.

Wrath Tabar...ick...such crappy DPS. He shoulda been using Tungi offhand at least, with Sushi he shouldn't need the Viking.

I haven't really seen many results pointing towards Scythe being that good for general purpose DD later on. 100% TP Spiral Hell numbers generally seem worse than Rampage, and Temperance Axe > Bahamut's Zaghnal.

The bigger question for me is why after the no-XP-loss change were neither of you using charmed pets? At 63 you can quite readily find EM pets around in the tree, which woulda been much better damage than the jugs you had.

I don't know, I myself use and will continue to use a Wrath Tabar. I pair it up with Sentinel Shield for good effects, I hit a bit slower, but its not something that makes a huge difference. Higher damage and Rampage, its fine with me.

At any rate, the reason I wasn't using charmed pets was because I left my Apollo's at my Mog House, incidently. I brought an EM Spider with me to use, but when I went to reapply my Charm after a round, it failed, I used Tame, it was gone. So I just pulled out Funguar, which caps at level 65, no? Funguar has always been my pet of choice, probably will be until 66-67, if I can stretch it out that far. Silence Gas and Dark Spore is nothing to scoff at.

I don't know, it seems Scythe could be much better until 55 or 56 or whatever it was until you get Rampage. Nightmare Scythe is actually a decent lower level WS, and the added Blind is nice for soloing too.

Any BST's got /SAM leveled? Maybe it would be worth it to try Hasso?

Wrath just has low DPS due to long delay. Sentinel Shield won't make up for that...you're basically meleeing with Slow on. It's not as bad as the offhand Viking, but neither are optimal. Francisca/Tungi would be stronger damage, and free to boot. Figure, damage is higher on the Wrath, but a Tungi is swinging 6 times for every 5 of the Wrath...4 base damage (and whatever the 7 STR nets you) won't add up to another full hit.

Jug pets may cap at a certain level, but they don't pop at that level guaranteed. You aren't getting a level 63 funguar calling Funguarfamiliar at level 63...though you could have a level 63 funguar by charming it. Or one of several other EM pets. You're basically getting a weakened EP mob by calling a jug. Not so much an axe/scythe issue, but as BST damage in a party it just made me wonder.

I know they don't pop at your level when you call them. Funguar wasn't doing shit damage, man, lol. And, again, I forgot my Apollo's and I wasn't gonna walk back to get another and come back everytime I mischarmed.


So, let me get this straight. For Wrath Tabar, it takes 13 hits to get over 100 TP (Assuming you didn't start with any TP) going at 8.3 per hit. Tungi would take 15 hits to reach over 100 TP going at 6.9 per hit. Wrath Tabar would swing every 5.27 seconds, while Tungi would swing every 4.33 seconds. Assuming we never missed, 5.27s x 13 hits = 68.51s to gain over 100 TP for Wrath Tabar, and 4.33s x 15 hits = 64.95s to gain over 100 TP with Tungi. On the initial 100 TP, a difference of 3.56s.

After using Rampage, if all hits connect, you'd come out with 12.3 TP for Wrath and 10.9 for Tungi. Another 87.7 TP for Wrath and 89.1 TP for Tungi. 11 hits more is required for Wrath to get 100 TP, and 13 hits more to get 100 TP with Tungi. Another 57.97s would be required to gain 100 TP again after hitting with a five-connect Rampage with Wrath, and 56.29s for Tungi. A 1.68s difference.

So for the first 200 TP, Tungi would hit one more time than Wrath Tabar, and it hit one more time than Wrath every 258 TP (4.33s/1.68s = 2.58 sets of 100 TP) after that (or more effectively, 3 WS rounds, so 300 TP). So for every 300 TP, you get in an extra hit over Wrath. You'd need 13 more hits at least to WS again (maybe 14 if you missed a couple hits consistently with your Rampage). You'd get to WS an extra time over Wrath every (13 hits x 3 rounds to get an extra hit) 39 WS.

So tell me, if Wrath Tabar hit for even 20 damage extra per Rampage due to its +4 base damage and +7 STR, does it REALLY make it that bad compared to Tungi? I didn't try to calculate WS damage because its kinda confusing and I'd probably fuck it up so, I didn't attempt it. If there is something wrong with my logic, please tell me.

[Isiolia]

So tell me, if Wrath Tabar hit for even 20 damage extra per Rampage due to its +4 base damage and +7 STR, does it REALLY make it that bad compared to Tungi? I didn't try to calculate WS damage because its kinda confusing and I'd probably fuck it up so, I didn't attempt it. If there is something wrong with my logic, please tell me.

I assume your 20 damage there is accounting for the extra damage to 100% TP that the Tungi winds up doing due to hitting more often. However, perhaps what you're not considering is that you have a limited window to get hits in. Per-mob damage is not going to be based on your to-100% TP, it's how many hits you can get in while it's alive.
If you're solo, you're not really going to be WS'ing every 100% TP. If you're /NIN, you won't be mainhanding the Tungi.

At best, one might wonder why you would -pay- for a Wrath when you can get axes for free that are easily as good or better? Not that I didn't own a Kabrakan's and Wrath for a long while as well. When I started partying on BST more (read: merits), I just found that speed was a lot better for my parses than brute force. Perhaps your experience has been different.

Remember, how it came up was mentioning per-hit damage next to that of a scythe. The axes used were not optimal, and the frequency of hits was not considered. That's something that hurts the comparison. Your scythe wasn't the best, but his axes were farther from optimal.

With pets, it's not that the funguar was necessarily doing horrible, just that a charmed EM would be doing a whole lot better.

[Tonko]

Turtlesoup: This is the newbie section, DO NOT TROLL. If you have nothing constructive to add to a post, DO NOT POST. Further trolling will see you banned, this is your one and only warning. Anyone who sees him posting things like this again, feel free to let me know.