Bahamut's Zaghnal performance post-patch...

[Ferien]

Assuming the wiki is right about it, the way Desperate Blows is calculated in haste means that if you were at 70% haste and use Last Resort, you get bumped through cap to 85% haste, correct? How does Hasso work into this exactly?

Hasso pushes you past the cap as well. Think there's a seperate section for JAs which counts past the 75% (?) cap you hit with Spells and Gear.

[Nagamaki]

So assuming 70% from gear+spell, adding 15% from DB and 10% from Hasso would result in 95% total reduction?

Or is there a separate cap at 90%, or something else I'm missing?

[Xavier]

I always thought the cap was 50%, or is that just for spells?

[Ferien]

So assuming 70% from gear+spell, adding 15% from DB and 10% from Hasso would result in 95% total reduction?

Or is there a separate cap at 90%, or something else I'm missing?

Theoretically it's supposed to push you to 95%, but now I can't remember where hit-speed was capped, because iirc, Khirschy (sp) ran into a point where more Haste, Hasso, DB, etc didn't do a thing.

Edit: Only spells cap at 50%, hit-speed is higher.

[Quizno]

Equipment: 25% Haste Cap

Magic/Songs: 43.3% Haste Cap

Haste (magic): 15% haste.
Haste (song): March (with correct instrument) gives 9 and 11% haste respectively. Soul Voice doubles effect of march giving possible 40% haste alone.
Haste (magic equipment): Haste Belt gives 10% haste counting toward the magic/song haste cap.

Hasso: 10% Haste

Desperate Blows III: 15% Haste


25+43.3+10+15=93.3


Soul Voice March + Haste DOES NOT give you 55% haste.

[Nagamaki]

Assuming the wiki data quoted on the separate caps is correct, this means the max reduction possible with Kraken is 68.3%, and 93.3% with Bahamut's Zaghnal.

Kraken is 4.5 hits per round avg, 264 base delay.
With 68.3% reduction, 83.59 delay for 4.5 hits.
18.575 delay per hit.

Zaghnal is 2 hits per round avg, 480 base delay.
Apply -3% from Grip, 465 base delay.
With 93.3% reduction, 31 delay for 2 hits.
15.5 delay per hit.

Am I missing something? Unless there indeed really is a swing delay reduction cap that is somewhere less than 93.3%, Bahamut's Zaghnal should swing faster than Kraken Club with everything stacked. On top of that its A+ skill, gains the newly boosted two-handed accuracy and way better base attack/damage (no effect on the Souleater damage, but still adds damage to every hit).

So yeah, what am I missing here?

[Xavier]

The biggest difference really is that any DRK, even if they're so shitty it hurts, is going to deal damage with a Kraken Club. To really get the most out of the Zaghnal, you need flawless gear.

[Keno]

Granted that's definitely true, but any DRK who has access to a BZ is probably going to have some pretty good gear.

[RKenshin]

Am I missing something? Unless there indeed really is a swing delay reduction cap that is somewhere less than 93.3%, Bahamut's Zaghnal should swing faster than Kraken Club with everything stacked. On top of that its A+ skill, gains the newly boosted two-handed accuracy and way better base attack/damage (no effect on the Souleater damage, but still adds damage to every hit).

So yeah, what am I missing here?

Nothing, but you need a very specific set of gear/merits/buffs to make B-Scythe surpass a much easier to obtain kraken DRK build.

Oh, and also one fact that people tend to forget is that the -15% delay reduction from Desperate Blows only lasts 30 seconds. In the additional 30 seconds of Souleater after the first 30 seconds, Kraken Club should pull ahead. I did the math for it in another thread but I forgot what the actual numbers were and don't have time to look for it again... If I remember correctly though Kraken Club came on top still.

[Falisa]

Yeah i think Kraken club will always pull ahead over B scythe but I think the point is that not everyone has 50 mil to blow on a Kraken Club and the scythe is easier to obtain. I know theres a few DRKs in my linkshell that have a very nice haste setup but no kraken club (but im not sure if some of them have the zaghnal either hehe) so the scythe could be a good replacement for when we need it. But Im sure if you have a nice gear setup and do well with the zaghnal, if you got a k club you'd do even more with that good setup + KC

[Nagamaki]

I wouldn't say that kraken is particularly easy to get. Or rather it is extremely easy, but stupidly rare drop/expensive.

However I did realize what I was missing, DRK can only get 22% haste in gear while /SAM (unless the haste gear list I'm referring to is incomplete). So kraken does win on raw delay, I'm too used to MNK haste you can cap on a whim. The only way a DRK can get 25% "gear" haste is by using Catastrophe (at 300% it should last a full minute) followed by a swap to the multi-hitter for SEBW.

It does come pretty close even at 22 though, especially if they aren't going to reduce the two-handed DEX=acc thing. Feint makes a huge difference but doesn't quite auto-cap something as low as club skill for DRK on meaningful targets. So both weapons have their positives and negatives, and either will produce ridiculous damage.

[RKenshin]

Yeah I agree, both options work really well and if you can't get a club the Scythe works as a great replacement.

[Minions]

Am I missing something? Unless there indeed really is a swing delay reduction cap that is somewhere less than 93.3%, Bahamut's Zaghnal should swing faster than Kraken Club with everything stacked. On top of that its A+ skill, gains the newly boosted two-handed accuracy and way better base attack/damage (no effect on the Souleater damage, but still adds damage to every hit).

So yeah, what am I missing here?

Nothing, but you need a very specific set of gear/merits/buffs to make B-Scythe surpass a much easier to obtain kraken DRK build.

Oh, and also one fact that people tend to forget is that the -15% delay reduction from Desperate Blows only lasts 30 seconds. In the additional 30 seconds of Souleater after the first 30 seconds, Kraken Club should pull ahead. I did the math for it in another thread but I forgot what the actual numbers were and don't have time to look for it again... If I remember correctly though Kraken Club came on top still.

You assume that the mob doesn't die in the first 30 seconds

[Keno]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but: W Turban- 5%, Dusk Gloves- 3%, Homam Legs- 3%, Homam Feet- 3%, Speed Belt- 6%.

Thats only 20% haste. So I assume you're using Dusk gloves+1 instead of NQ and a blitz ring to get 22% haste?

[RKenshin]

You assume that the mob doesn't die in the first 30 seconds

In most cases no it won't be dead in the first 30 seconds though.

Especially in situations like JoL where you're basically doing it just to speed up the fight.

[archibaldcrane]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but: W Turban- 5%, Dusk Gloves- 3%, Homam Legs- 3%, Homam Feet- 3%, Speed Belt- 6%.

Thats only 20% haste. So I assume you're using Dusk gloves+1 instead of NQ and a blitz ring to get 22% haste?

Yep, that's how you get to 22%. Dusk Ledelsens+1 work instead of Homam Feet if necessary also.

[Keno]

Also correct me if I'm wrong again but wouldn't bloodbead ring be better instead of blitz ring for ring2 (assuming bomb queen ring on ring1)? I think realistically when you calculate it out you might just want to have 20% haste from gear, because that's whats probably most practical.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Also correct me if I'm wrong again but wouldn't bloodbead ring be better instead of blitz ring for ring2 (assuming bomb queen ring on ring1)? I think realistically when you calculate it out you might just want to have 20% haste from gear, because that's whats probably most practical.

When you get as high haste as you can get when going for a pure haste build, 1% haste is actually a HUGE deal.

[Nagamaki]

With Kraken Bloodbead would probably result in fairly similar/better damage vs Blitz (depending on the ratio of your HP with/without it) but with Zaghnal and the extra 25 from Hasso and DB means that 1% haste is way more significant than 50%.

[Keno]

With Kraken Bloodbead would probably result in fairly similar/better damage vs Blitz (depending on the ratio of your HP with/without it) but with Zaghnal and the extra 25 from Hasso and DB means that 1% haste is way more significant than 50%.

I'm a little confused. So the difference between say 92% haste/delay reduction and 91% haste/delay reduction is more than just 1%?