Dagger choice.. X's vs BD.

[Slott]

X's knife does NOT modify TA. It only modifies crits. TA is not a guaranteed crit.

L

O

L

Guess what, SA isn't a guaranteed crit either. If you're too stupid to position yourself correctly.

[CoronA1979]

People still sub /nin for XP PT?

I do. P Harpe + Ridill says I can...

[Yutuyu]

TA damage enhancement is not a crit. If you think it is, then you're clueless. And if you only use TA when stacking it with SA, you're equally clueless.

As for the OP's question: I'm not sure which is the case, but I tested it and know that if your pDIF is 3 (capped) with X's knife it'll be 3.3. I don't know if it's a straight 10% bonus on damage or a +.3 pDIF bonus though.

[Whatinthe]

As for the OP's question: I'm not sure which is the case, but I tested it and know that if your pDIF is 3 (capped) with X's knife it'll be 3.3. I don't know if it's a straight 10% bonus on damage or a +.3 pDIF bonus though.

X's modifies crit by 1.1, and is done after the pDIF calculation.

[divisortheory]

TA is not a guaranteed crit.

Please tell me you didn't really just say this.

TA damage enhancement is not a crit. If you think it is, then you're clueless.

Wow, you really did say it. Can you explain why the chat log says you scored a critical hit every time then?

[dawdr]

So, because numbers are fun, I went out and did some quick and dirty testing on X's knife and an assortment of other daggers. Very small sample size but I never saw any difference in numbers, yay for caps. Test mobs were rabbits in West Sarutabaruta. Job was THF/NIN, to keep my stats stable and allow me to offhand X's for testing purposes. Sorry about the poor formatting, just cutting and pasting from notepad here.

First, SA damage in my TP gain set:
X's Knife - 422, 422, 422
Blau Dolch - 378, 378, 378
Hornetneedle - 327, 327, 327
Parrying Knife - 309, 309, 309

This was single wielding, just the dagger mentioned. Now, the same test, but with X's knife offhand:

Blau Dolch/X's Knife 415, 415, 415
Hornetneedle/X's Knife 359, 359, 359
Parrying Knife/ X's Knife 339, 339, 339

And now, the same thing, only with some dex gear on:

X's Knife - 521, 521, 521
Blau Dolch - 468, 468, 468
Hornetneedle - 417, 417, 417
Parrying Knife - 399, 399, 399

And:

Blau Dolch/X's Knife 514, 514, 514
Hornetneedle/X's Knife 458, 458, 458
Parrying Knife/X's Knife 438, 438, 438

So obviously, X's knife's effect applies to both hands when using Sneak Attack. I suppose I could also test with ranged weapons, but that seems excessive, but maybe I will eventually.

For the sake of completion, I also did normal melee swings with these same setups, plus latentless Blau Dolch, because it refused to crit forever and I figured "what the hell?" And the results are:

X's knife:
Normal hits 90, 90, 90...
Critical hits 148, 148, 148

Blau Dolch (latent active):
Normal hits 86, 86, 86...
Critical hits 129, 129, 129

Blau Dolch (latent inactive):
Normal hits 72, 72, 72...
Critical hits 108, 108, 108

Hornetneedle:
Normal hits 50, 50, 50...
Critical hits 75, 75, 75

Parrying Knife:
Normal hits 40, 40, 40...
Critical hits 60, 60, 60

And:

Blau Dolch/X's Knife (latent active):
Normal hits 86, 86, 86...
Critical hits 141, 141, 141

Blau Dolch/X's Knife (latent inactive):
Normal hits 72, 72, 72...
Critical hits 118, 118, 118

Hornetneedle/X's Knife:
Normal hits 50, 50, 50...
Critical hits 82, 82, 82

Parrying Knife/X's Knife:
Normal hits 40, 40, 40...
Critical hits 66, 66, 66

So, as you'd expect, X's knife does not do anything to normal hits, but applies to natural critical hits just the same as it does to forced ones. I would've done Trick Attack tests too, but I didn't feel like dragging my NPC along, and it's a bit pointless anyway, as Trick Attack is pretty clearly a critical hit to any thief using X's Knife.

[hopefulki]

I would use X's.

I still want to get an X's and try Mandau/X's, I am interested in seeing how it performs v.s Mandau/Blau for when i go /nin.

LW, you say you /war a lot, I haven't messed around /war much since i got Mandau, do you feel the /war zerk+warcry+DA% outweighs the offhand hit on WS?

Next few merits i plan on /war (but as you said, it's hard outside of LS party because death will occur..several times), but I'd like to have a rough idea of what to expect.

Pre-Mandau i was a /war obsessed person, but I've been using /nin for most assuming the offhand hit would affect it more.

Thoughts?

[divisortheory]

I would use X's.

I still want to get an X's and try Mandau/X's, I am interested in seeing how it performs v.s Mandau/Blau for when i go /nin.

LW, you say you /war a lot, I haven't messed around /war much since i got Mandau, do you feel the /war zerk+warcry+DA% outweighs the offhand hit on WS?

Next few merits i plan on /war (but as you said, it's hard outside of LS party because death will occur..several times), but I'd like to have a rough idea of what to expect.

Pre-Mandau i was a /war obsessed person, but I've been using /nin for most assuming the offhand hit would affect it more.

Thoughts?

I used to parse against Archain pretty frequently and we always tried various subjob combinations. Our gear is almost equivalent, if we both go /NIN he outparses by like 1%. When he switches to /WAR he consistently drops below me by about 1%.

If you don't have a Suppanomimi though, /WAR might be better.

[hopefulki]

I would use X's.

I still want to get an X's and try Mandau/X's, I am interested in seeing how it performs v.s Mandau/Blau for when i go /nin.

LW, you say you /war a lot, I haven't messed around /war much since i got Mandau, do you feel the /war zerk+warcry+DA% outweighs the offhand hit on WS?

Next few merits i plan on /war (but as you said, it's hard outside of LS party because death will occur..several times), but I'd like to have a rough idea of what to expect.

Pre-Mandau i was a /war obsessed person, but I've been using /nin for most assuming the offhand hit would affect it more.

Thoughts?

I used to parse against Archain pretty frequently and we always tried various subjob combinations. Our gear is almost equivalent, if we both go /NIN he outparses by like 1%. When he switches to /WAR he consistently drops below me by about 1%.

If you don't have a Suppanomimi though, /WAR might be better.

Yeah, i have suppa.

I remember reading some of your posts + parses involving that, I'm going to give it a shot but I am expecting the same turnout you had of /nin outweighing it, i just like testing things myself.

Thanks for the response :D

[Yutuyu]

TA is not a guaranteed crit.

Please tell me you didn't really just say this.

TA damage enhancement is not a crit. If you think it is, then you're clueless.

Wow, you really did say it. Can you explain why the chat log says you scored a critical hit every time then?

Cause I'm not a thief main and didn't know assassin makes TA guaranteed critical. My mistake, in that case, it's a nice boost either way on the first WS hit.

[Saeriel]

Lots of very cool stuff.

Thank you, that was just what I needed to know... really appreciated. =D>

- Sae

[Aurara]

X's knife does NOT modify TA. It only modifies crits. TA is not a guaranteed crit. Even with a guaranteed crit, on dancing edge it will only effect the first hit of many to come. It's a nice boost on the first attack, but the lack of ATK/ACC+ on Blau for all of the following makes it lackluster at best. Blau's DPS is better and it'll be better for dancing edge which is your best bet on merit mobs.

The title is "X's vs. BD." not X's vs. BD vs. X's & BD dual wield.

Jesus christ. what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you related to Chiz or somthing? You sound like him.

[Lordwafik]

TA is not a guaranteed crit.

Please tell me you didn't really just say this.

TA damage enhancement is not a crit. If you think it is, then you're clueless.

Wow, you really did say it. Can you explain why the chat log says you scored a critical hit every time then?

Cause I'm not a thief main and didn't know assassin makes TA guaranteed critical. My mistake, in that case, it's a nice boost either way on the first WS hit.

If you don't know, why did you even comment?

[hopefulki]

TA is not a guaranteed crit.

Please tell me you didn't really just say this.

TA damage enhancement is not a crit. If you think it is, then you're clueless.

Wow, you really did say it. Can you explain why the chat log says you scored a critical hit every time then?

Cause I'm not a thief main and didn't know assassin makes TA guaranteed critical. My mistake, in that case, it's a nice boost either way on the first WS hit.

If you don't know, why did you even comment?

Because people like making statements they don't really understand just because.

See: 2H saying they are totally ok

[Starr]

Woah X's affects both hands? That is sick, I want it even more

[divisortheory]

Woah X's affects both hands? That is sick, I want it even more

only on Sneak and Trick, but yea.

[ringthree]

Woah X's affects both hands? That is sick, I want it even more

only on Sneak and Trick, but yea.

Actually, the tests above seem to indicate it affects them universally, or did I misunderstand?

[Whatinthe]

Woah X's affects both hands? That is sick, I want it even more

only on Sneak and Trick, but yea.

No, it affects any critical attack. It's basically Critical Attack Damage+10%.

[divisortheory]

Woah X's affects both hands? That is sick, I want it even more

only on Sneak and Trick, but yea.

No, it affects any critical attack. It's basically Critical Attack Damage+10%.

Oops I misread the data. Does it work with weaponskill?

[hopefulki]

I was under the assumption it would affect WS crits, i don't see why it would exclude them.

But since I do not own the dagger, I cannot test this, has anyone here with the dagger seen increased damage on WS when they crit hits?