Drg 2hr, 50% haste?

[HadesBothari]

Only problem with this is the idea that Love Halberd would hit 150-200 on a high defence mob. Even with the new 'overpowered' 2h, I find it hard to think that suck a low damage drg weapon will be doing that much dmg per hit.

Seconded .. I'd say high end average 100ish.

SV march x 2 + haste spell caps at 43.3%. In other words, you really don't need your 2hr to reach the magic + song cap.

Or you could Just use our 2hr + 1 SV march. This would allow for single bard zerging (Assuming accuracy isn't an issue). We could also get to haste cap with a single RDM/BRD (Subbed march is 3.5%. So, 3.5+15+25). So, instead of having to get 2 bards, we could work with 1 rdm/brd + 1 cor(or brd) and the cor and rdm wouldn't even have to 2hr.

Edit: page get x2?

Edit2: I don't think DRG can get to haste gear cap right now (w/o the lol70jse earring). Max I think is 24 and that only by replacing homam body with wrym +1 and adding Dusk +1 hands.

[Keno]

While it's disappointing to hear that spirit surge won't go past the cap, it does raise the ideal of going on a full attack/str build for when zerging with spirit surge up. And hey, if you can manage 200 dmg per hit you'll be doing around 10,000+ dmg over the one minute period of spirit surge, which is pretty good.

[Nameless]

While it's disappointing to hear that spirit surge won't go past the cap, it does raise the ideal of going on a full attack/str build for when zerging with spirit surge up. And hey, if you can manage 200 dmg per hit you'll be doing around 10,000+ dmg over the one minute period of spirit surge, which is pretty good.

yea, the bonus for drg is that they don't have to kill themselves to get 25% haste from equips like Drks. 63 hits not counting DA and TA in 1 min is really good.

[Plow]

edit someone said it already in just a 1 line post I didn't notice sorry ><

edit again

Uh sort of off topic, but how does Triple Attack vs Double Attack work? Would it be dumb for someone who stacks on DA to have something like a Algol or Homam Corazza?

Quoted in case it got missed since I'm curious about this as well.

It wouldn't be dumb, because any chance at Triple Attack is still a good thing, however small. You'll just be double attacking more often than triple attacking.

I think we need a thread about this actually. It hadn't ever occurred to me but if a triple attack has the potential or whatever to overwrite a double, well that really is just dumb. I would hope that it's some kind of a roll where say if you've got 5% double you'd double on 1-5 (out of 100), and if you add in 2% triple, you'd triple on 6-7.

[Nameless]

edit someone said it already in just a 1 line post I didn't notice sorry ><

edit again

Uh sort of off topic, but how does Triple Attack vs Double Attack work? Would it be dumb for someone who stacks on DA to have something like a Algol or Homam Corazza?

Quoted in case it got missed since I'm curious about this as well.

It wouldn't be dumb, because any chance at Triple Attack is still a good thing, however small. You'll just be double attacking more often than triple attacking.

I think we need a thread about this actually. It hadn't ever occurred to me but if a triple attack has the potential or whatever to overwrite a double, well that really is just dumb. I would hope that it's some kind of a roll where say if you've got 5% double you'd double on 1-5 (out of 100), and if you add in 2% triple, you'd triple on 6-7.

I would say that owning an Algol, I triple attack at exact 3% if not more often (seems to kick in alot). I also have a brutal earring and DA kicks in often as well. If anything, the 5% DA should overwrite the 3% triple attack (seems like the lower will always overwrite if it does, cuz brutal or homam will overwrite kclub's 2-8 attack if it kicks in). Therefore, I believe they do stack instead of overlapping, but there is also no way to tell.

[Akanei]

Only problem with this is the idea that Love Halberd would hit 150-200 on a high defence mob. Even with the new 'overpowered' 2h, I find it hard to think that suck a low damage drg weapon will be doing that much dmg per hit.

Seconded .. I'd say high end average 100ish.

Just to say "the proof is in the pudding".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ovehalberd.jpg

You're not going to be swinging remotely that high on a zerg fight.

Edit: That was with about 620 attack btw, in haste gear & love halberd.

Edit2: Spirit Surge doesn't really matter, but just for the naysayers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...anei/surge.jpg

[Obiron]

Only problem with this is the idea that Love Halberd would hit 150-200 on a high defence mob. Even with the new 'overpowered' 2h, I find it hard to think that suck a low damage drg weapon will be doing that much dmg per hit.

Seconded .. I'd say high end average 100ish.

Just to say "the proof is in the pudding".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ovehalberd.jpg

You're not going to be swinging remotely that high on a zerg fight.

Edit: That was with about 620 attack btw, in haste gear & love halberd.

Edit2: Spirit Surge doesn't really matter, but just for the naysayers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...anei/surge.jpg

I'm not so sure I agree with that test, why wouldn't Spirit Surge make a difference? In your case, it was because you were already hitting the damage cap and SS won't take you above that. But on a zerg fight such as Kirin, you won't be hitting the dmg cap so SS will bring you closer to that. Also, the def down from jump won't make a difference on a too weak because, again, you're already at the cap. But it will make a difference on Kirin.

I would agree though that I don't think it would hit 150-200. I can't say for sure what kind of dmg a Love Halberd would do on Kirin because I don't have one, but I have done a TP burn since the update using a Mezraq. Before SS I was hitting around 100ish. With SS my hits jumped up to around 150-200. Now I don't have the best gear, so with a better geared DRG using a Love Halberd I could see it maybe doing 100-150. As for the power of a DRG-zerg, I was very surprised when a SAM who was running a parser announced that I parsed the highest dmg in that fight (it was a mainly 2hander zerg, took 2:43 to kill Kirin). The WAR who came in second didn't 2hr so he easily would have beat me, but the potential is there. I would really like to see someone with the right gear test this out (I would if I had Love halberd and a decent haste build, but I'm still working on that) because while I don't necessarily see it beating a KC drk, it has the potential to close the gap.

Edit: I should mention that I've never worked with the damage formulas, so that possible "100-150" is just a guess on my part based on my observations with Mezraq. Has anyone calculated what the dmg cap would be on something like Kirin with a Love Halberd? And what it would take to get near that cap?

[Akanei]

I'm not so sure I agree with that test, why wouldn't Spirit Surge make a difference? In your case, it was because you were already hitting the damage cap and SS won't take you above that. But on a zerg fight such as Kirin, you won't be hitting the dmg cap so SS will bring you closer to that. Also, the def down from jump won't make a difference on a too weak because, again, you're already at the cap. But it will make a difference on Kirin.

The reason I even made the edit for spirit surge, in the first place, was to prove I was hitting the D cap on the weapon. Nothing more, nothing less. Thus it's for the people who would even consider that I could go higher with surge. Obviously jump doesn't matter; not like I could use it anyway, since the mob would die from it.

I seriously doubt it will show a large change with Kirin. I rarely hit 130ish with a mezraq prepatch and wheelings rarely broke 680ish(I think, I haven't done kirin in ages so I'm going off my best memory). I also still hit 0s, despite attack food, double minuet, etc.

On my best guess? I could probably hit for 180ish now instead of 130 with it. Do I really think a d60 will come close to that? No.

Edit: It could very well do what my mezraq could, prepatch, but is that really all that impressive? Eh... not if it also has the ability to swing for 0s.

Edit2: DL would be a different story. I could see an average of 140-160 on that.

[Therin]

I'm not so sure I agree with that test, why wouldn't Spirit Surge make a difference? In your case, it was because you were already hitting the damage cap and SS won't take you above that. But on a zerg fight such as Kirin, you won't be hitting the dmg cap so SS will bring you closer to that. Also, the def down from jump won't make a difference on a too weak because, again, you're already at the cap. But it will make a difference on Kirin.

The reason I even made the edit for spirit surge, in the first place, was to prove I was hitting the D cap on the weapon. Nothing more, nothing less. Thus it's for the people who would even consider that I could go higher with surge. Obviously jump doesn't matter; not like I could use it anyway, since the mob would die from it.

I seriously doubt it will show a large change with Kirin. I rarely hit 130ish with a mezraq prepatch and wheelings rarely broke 680ish(I think, I haven't done kirin in ages so I'm going off my best memory). I also still hit 0s, despite attack food, double minuet, etc.

On my best guess? I could probably hit for 180ish now instead of 130 with it. Do I really think a d60 will come close to that? No.

Edit: It could very well do what my mezraq could, prepatch, but is that really all that impressive? Eh... not if it also has the ability to swing for 0s.

Edit2: DL would be a different story. I could see an average of 140-160 on that.

I'm agreeing with Akanei here. I remember seeing 0-50 damage per hit as a DRK before the update with crits of 80-100. With Last Resort it goes up about 30 damage across the board so I can't imagine double minuets adding more than that. That's 30-80 damage before the update from a DRK - DRG has weaker weapons and no attack bonus so I don't see how you could get 150-200 damage per hit from a Love Halberd even after the update.

[Nameless]

I'm not so sure I agree with that test, why wouldn't Spirit Surge make a difference? In your case, it was because you were already hitting the damage cap and SS won't take you above that. But on a zerg fight such as Kirin, you won't be hitting the dmg cap so SS will bring you closer to that. Also, the def down from jump won't make a difference on a too weak because, again, you're already at the cap. But it will make a difference on Kirin.

The reason I even made the edit for spirit surge, in the first place, was to prove I was hitting the D cap on the weapon. Nothing more, nothing less. Thus it's for the people who would even consider that I could go higher with surge. Obviously jump doesn't matter; not like I could use it anyway, since the mob would die from it.

I seriously doubt it will show a large change with Kirin. I rarely hit 130ish with a mezraq prepatch and wheelings rarely broke 680ish(I think, I haven't done kirin in ages so I'm going off my best memory). I also still hit 0s, despite attack food, double minuet, etc.

On my best guess? I could probably hit for 180ish now instead of 130 with it. Do I really think a d60 will come close to that? No.

Edit: It could very well do what my mezraq could, prepatch, but is that really all that impressive? Eh... not if it also has the ability to swing for 0s.

Edit2: DL would be a different story. I could see an average of 140-160 on that.

I'm agreeing with Akanei here. I remember seeing 0-50 damage per hit as a DRK before the update with crits of 80-100. With Last Resort it goes up about 30 damage across the board so I can't imagine double minuets adding more than that. That's 30-80 damage before the update from a DRK - DRG has weaker weapons and no attack bonus so I don't see how you could get 150-200 damage per hit from a Love Halberd even after the update.

Thing is that you probably won't need such aggressive stance when fighting kirin. Kirin is not like if you let it live for 1 min longer it will destroy your whole alliance, so perhaps just take your time on that. It's one situation where it probably won't be effective. But to be honest, if SV march x 2 is what you get for buff while everyone is zerging, I see no reason you shouldn't at least put 65 hits in to use even if it hit for 50 a hit. What else you gonna do i mean...

For stuff that are time sensitive like DL, Behamut v2, and alot other mobs that grow insanely strong after a certain period of time have average to low defense, meaning you can get about 150-200 damage per hit with the proper buff. Another thing I can think of is JoP when one is open mouth. My LS does it by killing one fast and then zerg the second one in the shortest time possible. I have no doubt that you can get it for at least 100-150 now after the update.

[DrObvious]

i am sorry i just scrolled up to page 2 and read Kirchy's tests.

The conclusion is this:

2) Yes, spirit surge covers both magic + song and equip cap. Equip cap is 25%, haste + song cap is 43.3%. So this means that if you only got bard SV march x 2 you and whm hasting you and 0 equip haste, the 2hr will give you that 25% haste to cap it. In other words, if your equip + song + magic is short of the 68.3% haste cap by less than 25%, your 2hr will cover it.

Sorry, but you're still reading it wrong.

Look at test 3: 2x march + spell + 19% gear + hasso = ~64% haste.

Test 4 is all of the above + 2hr = ~73% haste.

Total spell haste in test 3&4: ~35% spell, ~19% gear. If spirit surge covered both magic and equip haste, you would get 9+6% haste by adding the 2hr, however, you only add 9% between the tests.

[Akanei]

DRG/WAR
999 ATK
double march+haste+surge+13% gear haste
Love Halberd

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...46seckirin.jpg

46 second fight. Those are all the attack rounds I had, excluding 2 misses.

I would say I'm about right on what I said I could do.

[Therin]

If it was a 46 second fight how did you High Jump and Jump twice? o_O

[Akanei]

I hax.

I popped jumps before I 2hr'd.

Anyway, the cut/paste job I made doesn't accurately reflect the order of attack cycles. I was mostly aiming for showing numbers.

[Therin]

I hax.

I popped jumps before I 2hr'd.

Anyway, the cut/paste job I made doesn't accurately reflect the order of attack cycles. I was mostly aiming for showing numbers.

Yeah I caught that it wasn't necessarily in that order. I wasn't aware Spirit Surge reset Jump/High Jump timers, my bad.

[Nameless]

i am sorry i just scrolled up to page 2 and read Kirchy's tests.

The conclusion is this:

2) Yes, spirit surge covers both magic + song and equip cap. Equip cap is 25%, haste + song cap is 43.3%. So this means that if you only got bard SV march x 2 you and whm hasting you and 0 equip haste, the 2hr will give you that 25% haste to cap it. In other words, if your equip + song + magic is short of the 68.3% haste cap by less than 25%, your 2hr will cover it.

Sorry, but you're still reading it wrong.

Look at test 3: 2x march + spell + 19% gear + hasso = ~64% haste.

Test 4 is all of the above + 2hr = ~73% haste.

Total spell haste in test 3&4: ~35% spell, ~19% gear. If spirit surge covered both magic and equip haste, you would get 9+6% haste by adding the 2hr, however, you only add 9% between the tests.

From the look of that it seems like it only covers magic haste then. Not sure how I missed that lol, must be the damn calculator in my office.

[Mabubeezareel]

Posting this from my LS's website. Please forgive the crappy quality of the video.

So here's my very first cut at producing a DRG speed demo video, which Dakkon has so aptly named "Hundred Thrusts". The idea is simply to capture how fast a DRG can swing, primarily while my 2-hr is active. While what I have here is basically just the raw footage without any editing at all, I'll work on it a bit to see if I can get it to be a little more presentable.

I was DRG/SAM for this, with Aery providing the Haste and Havic the 2x SV Marches. Hasso and Spirit Surge were both active for the duration of the video. Here's the relevant gear that I was wearing:

Love Halberd (delay 396)
Sword Strap (delay -3%)
Walahra Turban (haste +5%)
Homam Corazza (Triple Attack +3½%)
Homam Cosciales (Haste +3%)
Homam Gambieras (Haste +3%)
Dusk Gloves +1 (Haste +4%, courtesy of Juici)
Speed Belt (Haste +6%, courtesy of Pellucid)
Bltiz Ring (Haste +1%, courtesy of Valacar)
Brutal Earring (Double Attack +5%)

That's a total of 25% haste in gear alone. Coupled with Hasso, Haste Spell, the 2x SV Marches, the extra attacks granted from the jailer weapon + my DA/TA gear, and a bit of haste from Spirit Surge, I can get my swing speed up to a pretty impressive clip. The end result of this is that I'd like to apply it to a zerg fight, preferably giving it a try at our next Kirin. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJE2oqwixY

I think I counted about 55 swings in the ~55 seconds that I was engaged with SS up. It's not game-breaking speed by any account, but still not bad for a zerg fight if I can get enough atk to bring my hits up too the 150-200 range.

[Swatt]

i love your name

[Asphodel]

Hmm, doesn't haste and delay reduction stack? I see 23% haste in gear, plus the Sword strap.

Of course, to get that last 2% pure haste in gear on Dragoon, you need to collect Wyrm Mail +1, which is kinda impractical for random testing.

Have you tried doing a blitz like that without using your 2-hour? It seems from the posts above that it wouldn't stack with the Haste+SV March that you had on. Feel like posting a second video for comparison?

[Turambar]

Hmm, doesn't haste and delay reduction stack? I see 23% haste in gear, plus the Sword strap.

Of course, to get that last 2% pure haste in gear on Dragoon, you need to collect Wyrm Mail +1, which is kinda impractical for random testing.

Have you tried doing a blitz like that without using your 2-hour? It seems from the posts above that it wouldn't stack with the Haste+SV March that you had on. Feel like posting a second video for comparison?

I only see 22% Haste in gear.

They don't really "stack" so much as complement one another. The -delay is calculated first. It's not functionally equivalent to +3% Haste, because 25% Haste on 396 Delay is not the same as 22% Haste on (396-3%) Delay.

396 Delay 25% Haste = 297
396 - 3% Delay = 384.12. I'm not entirely sure of the rounding here so I'll just look at all 3 potential cases:
rounded down (384) 22% Haste = 299.52
not rounded (384.12) 22% Haste = 299.6136
rounded up (385) 22% Haste = 300.3

I have a feeling the actual delay value would turn out to be 301 (i.e. rounded up after every percentage calculation), a total of ~24% increase in attack speed. Not quite as good as a full 25% Haste, but nothing to scoff at either.


Edit: from looking around somepage, it looks like the only way for DRGs to hit the +25% equipment cap is with the listed gear, Wyrm Mail +1, and Beta Earring while in Salvage.