Interpretation of law

[Anyway]

This is obviously ridiculous. I could see if he was still in prison when he died and they added years. Though the guy is a scumbag, he shot a cop.

[Charla]

Last I checked first degree murder is by definition premeditated. A burgler shooting the cop that shows up is not at all premeditated. Am I just using an old definition? Is it considered first degree by default if there's another crime being committed at the same time?

And as for that mother, the DA should have been required to agree not to prosecute her over it in order to get her to testify. Fifth Amendment and all that.

edit: Wikipedia to the rescue
Before the famous case of Furman v. Georgia in 1972, most states distinguished two degrees of murder. While the rules differed by state, a reasonably common scheme was that of Pennsylvania, passed in 1794: "Murder which shall be perpetrated by means of poison, or by lying in wait, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, rape, robbery, or burglary, shall be deemed murder of the first degree

I guess he got grandfathered in.

[Intense]

And as for that mother, the DA should have been required to agree not to prosecute her over it in order to get her to testify. Fifth Amendment and all that.

They took advantage of her lack of knowledge of the law, which is disgusting. I dont recall what happened to her, but I know they went after her because we represented her.

[Slapper]

Why wasn't the bullet removed?

Sometimes the bullet is near some artery or some bad spot making it too dangerous to remove. People can still live with a bullet inside them because the body forms a layer of tissue around the foreign object sorta like how a clam forms a layer around a grain of sand to make a pearl. I know this because i just watched an episode of CSI like 3 hours ago and the chick got shot like 10 years ago and the bullet was just finally removed.

[Kaylia]

Why wasn't the bullet removed?

Sometimes the bullet is near some artery or some bad spot making it too dangerous to remove. People can still live with a bullet inside them because the body forms a layer of tissue around the foreign object sorta like how a clam forms a layer around a grain of sand to make a pearl. I know this because i just watched an episode of CSI like 3 hours ago and the chick got shot like 10 years ago and the bullet was just finally removed.

How big was the pearl?

[layoneil]

Last I checked first degree murder is by definition premeditated. A burgler shooting the cop that shows up is not at all premeditated. Am I just using an old definition? Is it considered first degree by default if there's another crime being committed at the same time?

shooting an on-duty police officer is by default first degree murder.

also there's presumed premeditation when you bring a weapon to a crime. for what reason would a person bring a gun (or any weapon) to a burglary other than to inflict unjustified harm to another person? you can't claim to be using self-defense when you're committing a crime. and it doesn't have to be a cop in this case, if you're robbing someone's house and you shoot him, or robbing a bank and shoot a teller, that's all first degree, you're bringing a weapon with intent to kill someone.

premeditation is used to distinguish situations like when you walk in on your best friend screwing your wife and you bash his brains in. or if you get into a bar fight and beat the guy to death. a lot of that has to do with the spur of the moment. and commonly you can get that down to 2nd degree or less.

[Norelco]

for what reason would a person bring a gun (or any weapon) to a burglary other than to inflict unjustified harm to another person?

To get them to comply without resistance. Many times people will rob a bank or a convenience store with an unloaded weapon.

[Bartylby]

isn't there that year and a day law?

like if someone hurts someone else by whatever means, if the person hurt survives at least a year and a day the person who hurt them isn't responsible if they die?

[layoneil]

To get them to comply without resistance. Many times people will rob a bank or a convenience store with an unloaded weapon.

you can't shoot someone with that either. if you bring a loaded weapon, it's premeditation, you expect resistance and you expect to act against the resistance.

if you bludgeon someone to death with that unloaded weapon, it would also classify as first degree.

[Norelco]

To get them to comply without resistance. Many times people will rob a bank or a convenience store with an unloaded weapon.

you can't shoot someone with that either. if you bring a loaded weapon, it's premeditation, you expect resistance and you expect to act against the resistance.

if you bludgeon someone to death with that unloaded weapon, it would also classify as first degree.

Just because you carry a loaded gun into a place doesn't mean you necessarily intend to use it.

[Marius]

To get them to comply without resistance. Many times people will rob a bank or a convenience store with an unloaded weapon.

you can't shoot someone with that either. if you bring a loaded weapon, it's premeditation, you expect resistance and you expect to act against the resistance.

if you bludgeon someone to death with that unloaded weapon, it would also classify as first degree.

Just because you carry a loaded gun into a place doesn't mean you necessarily intend to use it.

then if u don't intend to use it why load it?

[Norelco]

To get them to comply without resistance. Many times people will rob a bank or a convenience store with an unloaded weapon.

you can't shoot someone with that either. if you bring a loaded weapon, it's premeditation, you expect resistance and you expect to act against the resistance.

if you bludgeon someone to death with that unloaded weapon, it would also classify as first degree.

Just because you carry a loaded gun into a place doesn't mean you necessarily intend to use it.

then if u don't intend to use it why load it?

Why not?

[Charla]

Just because you buy a gun and keep it under your matress doesn't mean you "intend" to use it either. It's a precaution. What's more, the intention to shoot your way out if a cop shows up is very different from the intention to kill a specific person. And as I said it doesn't really matter, because before the 70s it specifically listed burglary/robbery in the definition (as I copied).

[Norelco]

Just because you buy a gun and keep it under your matress doesn't mean you "intend" to use it either. It's a precaution. What's more, the intention to shoot your way out if a cop shows up is very different from the intention to kill a specific person. And as I said it doesn't really matter, because before the 70s it specifically listed burglary/robbery in the definition (as I copied).

Layo sort of has a point though...even though it's not intended it is the precaution that is premeditated.

[Denchi]

The guy that shot the police officer kinda had it coming. Just because by some MIRACLE the cop survived the shooting this long the man only served 15 years. If my brother was shot in the line of duty, and lived, only to find out that he has an infection from the wound he suffered kills him, I'd be pissed too. Just because he's 71 doesn't mean he isn't guilty, and last time I checked "Feeling bad about it" isn't a good enough reason to get out of jail. You do time because you're being punished, this man killed someone, punish away. Next time you want to be treated fairly, don't rob a store then shoot a police officer, tard.

[Norelco]

The guy that shot the police officer kinda had it coming. Just because by some MIRACLE the cop survived the shooting this long the man only served 15 years. If my brother was shot in the line of duty, and lived, only to find out that he has an infection from the wound he suffered kills him, I'd be pissed too. Just because he's 71 doesn't mean he isn't guilty, and last time I checked "Feeling bad about it" isn't a good enough reason to get out of jail. You do time because you're being punished, this man killed someone, punish away. Next time you want to be treated fairly, don't rob a store then shoot a police officer, tard.

Yeah, but this case sort of sets a dangerous legal precedent, wouldn't you think? I'd be damn surprised if I got into a car accident with someone and they died 40+ years later as a result of a complication and some asshole DA serves me with papers for vehicular homicide. Who's to say they weren't taking proper care of themselves and this compounded the issue?

[Amele]

The guy that shot the police officer kinda had it coming. Just because by some MIRACLE the cop survived the shooting this long the man only served 15 years. If my brother was shot in the line of duty, and lived, only to find out that he has an infection from the wound he suffered kills him, I'd be pissed too. Just because he's 71 doesn't mean he isn't guilty, and last time I checked "Feeling bad about it" isn't a good enough reason to get out of jail. You do time because you're being punished, this man killed someone, punish away. Next time you want to be treated fairly, don't rob a store then shoot a police officer, tard.

numbers game: 1966
+15 1981
cop dies 2007
total elapsed time since shooting: 41 years
total elapsed time since sentence served: 26 years

do you seriously mean to argue that the guy should be prosecuted again for a crime that is 4 decades old and he satisfied his debt to society for over a quarter century ago, just because some coroner declares cause of death to be complications from an infection related to a foreign object?

[Intense]

Its the prosecutions job to prove without a shadow of a doubt it was his intention to use the gun to kill someone. Without knowing more details, such as the circumstances of the initial crime, the dfendents mindest, where on the body the cop was shot, etc. Its hard to conclude it was the defendents intention to murder someone/the cop.

Loading a gun, with the intent to rob someone doesnt necessarily mean you intend to kill them. You could fire a shot into the air to scare/show them youre serious, you can shoot them in the arm/leg also, it can also be used in self defense (laughable, but it can be argued). If the case goes to trial, which I doubt it will, itd be pretty easy to cast doubt into the minds of the jury, granted there arent some circumstances we dont know about.

[Denchi]

The guy that shot the police officer kinda had it coming. Just because by some MIRACLE the cop survived the shooting this long the man only served 15 years. If my brother was shot in the line of duty, and lived, only to find out that he has an infection from the wound he suffered kills him, I'd be pissed too. Just because he's 71 doesn't mean he isn't guilty, and last time I checked "Feeling bad about it" isn't a good enough reason to get out of jail. You do time because you're being punished, this man killed someone, punish away. Next time you want to be treated fairly, don't rob a store then shoot a police officer, tard.

just because some coroner declares cause of death to be complications from an infection related to a foreign object?

*A foreign object lodged into an officers body with a gun.

If you rob a store with a loaded gun, and you SHOOT AN OFFICER WITH IT, then you're a fucking moron. Premeditated? I'm not sure. It sure doesn't sound premeditated to me, it sounds like his primary objective was to rob the store, not kill officer whosit. But I dunno, maybe he really did intend to kill the officer after being caught, a lot of it depends on the burglar.

But either way, I don't think that time elapsed saves a person from guilt. The officer wouldn't be dead had he not been shot, bottom line. It sure sounds nice to say "Well that was so long ago it can't possibly matter." or "The burglar served his time and feels bad about it and is a changed man." But justice isn't served by thinking that.

[Amele]

The guy that shot the police officer kinda had it coming. Just because by some MIRACLE the cop survived the shooting this long the man only served 15 years. If my brother was shot in the line of duty, and lived, only to find out that he has an infection from the wound he suffered kills him, I'd be pissed too. Just because he's 71 doesn't mean he isn't guilty, and last time I checked "Feeling bad about it" isn't a good enough reason to get out of jail. You do time because you're being punished, this man killed someone, punish away. Next time you want to be treated fairly, don't rob a store then shoot a police officer, tard.

just because some coroner declares cause of death to be complications from an infection related to a foreign object?

*A foreign object lodged into an officers body with a gun.

If you rob a store with a loaded gun, and you SHOOT AN OFFICER WITH IT, then you're a fucking moron. Premeditated? I'm not sure. It sure doesn't sound premeditated to me, it sounds like his primary objective was to rob the store, not kill officer whosit. But I dunno, maybe he really did intend to kill the officer after being caught, a lot of it depends on the burglar.

But either way, I don't think that time elapsed saves a person from guilt. The officer wouldn't be dead had he not been shot, bottom line. It sure sounds nice to say "Well that was so long ago it can't possibly matter." or "The burglar served his time and feels bad about it and is a changed man." But justice isn't served by thinking that.

as a matter of fact, with very few exceptions (first degree homicide being one of them in the state of PA) elapsed time *does* save a person from prosecution. (statute of limitations)

But beyond that, this skirts very close to the spirit of double jeopardy (I realize it isn't, because the charge is different; but DJ was instituted to prevent chicanery like this) and moreover, with the exception of Homicide in the First Degree couldn't even be brought to trial at this date.

Let's be serious for a minute here. this guy already served time for the shooting and this is highly dependent on the coroner's report being accurate. I think you would be hard pressed to find many doctors willing to realistically claim that the sole cause of this death was infection via a bullet that had been in his system for 40 years.

Justice isn't served? this case's justice was served 41 years ago with the initial sentencing, the only thing getting served here is the DA's resumé.