Let's talk about Ranger

[Don Katsu]

Allow Rapid shot to lower the delay of Ranged weapons without the TP loss.

This is called Snapshot.

Yeah but you have to merit to get that. Meaning your RNG has to be 75. Mine is only 44 and delay just sucks

[Dank]

1:
Let players alternate between keeping melee or ranged weapons out full-time like Tenzen does. Auto-attack would work the same way. With melee weapons out, you could still /shoot as normal (i.e. slowly). With ranged weapons out, you couldn't melee, but could shoot constantly with no macro pressing and with lower delay (due to the switching animation not playing every time you fire).

That would be an awesome change, I love that idea.

[Sagacious Sundi]

[quote=Spider-Dan]

I'm going to ask what RNGs think of these ideas:
-1-2 "Ranged Attack Bonus" and/or "Ranged Accuracy Bonus" job traits
-Shadow Weight: Gravity (mentioned already)
-Shadow Stun
-Shadow Slow: Okay, now this is getting a little silly
-Shadow Haste: >_>
-Actually, instead of those, how about "Ammo Bash" or something, with the ammo used (arrow/bolt/bullet/shell/maybe thrown) changing the added effect, which would be weight (shell?)/stun (bullet?)/slow (bolt?)/knockback (reusable thrown?)/bind (arrow?)/stuff.

Given that RNG has 4 Accuracy Bonus (melee and ranged) traits now, are you suggesting that we lose 2-3 of them?
[/quote:56cad]
I never mentioned replacing current bonus traits, so, no.

EDIT: No clue if it would be broken or not, just throwing out ideas.

[Shadida]

Really they should just give us an ability called "Shoot BLM in the side of the head for comic effect" right? lol

[BRP]

Really they should just give us an ability called "Shoot BLM in the side of the head for comic effect" right? lol

Yes

[Titanss]

I have a question about RNG since alot of career/elite RNG's are posting and I haven't seen a rng thread in a while. My rl friend is in a ls that loves to zerg certain HNM's such as Bv2,Kirin,KV,DL etc and he is currently on stage 4 of the relic bow and also has a KC now my question is as follows: In a zerg situation is it possible for a KC/relic bow rng to outparse a KC DRK or even a RNG with relic gun because he seems to think spamming the Nama's Arrow can put out higher #'s than a kc drk without having to worry about Souleater time,whm spamming cures on you etc, or would the #'s just be about the same as a kc rng with culvern etc, and still not outparse the drk?

[Don Katsu]

stun bolts/arrows

[Larrieux]

1:
Let players alternate between keeping melee or ranged weapons out full-time like Tenzen does. Auto-attack would work the same way. With melee weapons out, you could still /shoot as normal (i.e. slowly). With ranged weapons out, you couldn't melee, but could shoot constantly with no macro pressing and with lower delay (due to the switching animation not playing every time you fire).

I don't have time to make a longer post but I just wanted to say I like this idea (and the idea of auto-ranged generally), though it would take some consideration to work out the exact logistics - would we have to engage, how would WS work, etc.?

As I see it, it would work the same way as any melee job. Auto-attack on, except you're shooting instead of flailing around waving your axes at the mob. You have to /attack on to use WS right now anyways, so that wouldn't change at all. If you've ever seen or played the MMO Rappelz, that's how ranged attacks work in that game, except that there's only one weapon slot, and you choose either ranged or melee weapon to equip.

It would be a fundamental change to the combat system, and would really have to be applied to players generally rather than a specific job. Of course, there's very little reason a WAR or NIN or whatever would waste their time shooting rather than meleeing (unless they're trying to skill up), so only RNG and COR would have any reason to use it.

If they made this change then it would make sense to make all ammo infinite. I forget the JA that allows this every so often but it would have to be replaced with something else. Placing one type of ammo in the ammo slot that would allow you to shoot ammo continuously would be great...I guess. I'd expect the cost to make this single ammo arrow or bolt to go up dramtically then level off but it would be a decent compromise.

[Dian]

I think we just need our TP gain and raw DMG to be calculated differently.

Haste? No thanks, that'd mean we'd also be efected by slow.

Status bolts are just fine as far as enfeebling goes, if you have a decent MND build (read:90+ total) you shouldn't have any poblem getting those to proc on any mob that doesn't have a lot of resistance.

Accuracy is also quite the issue, with one piece of +10 Ranged Acc. gear(O Hat/AF body) and our Accuracy Bonus job traits(+48 acc/racc) we should have at least 80% accuracy on high level mobs before merits. This is not the case, on many high level mobs we have to stack acc and eat sushi to not whiff all day.

Ranged attack bonuses would be great for HNMs but would fall short of usefull with the current calculations in exp. I find myself hitting the RAtk cap pretty often.

I like the idea of a slightly enhanced EES and the AIM abilities.

Maybe a job trait that acts like double attack with ranged attacks(gun slinger?).

Idk I don't have a whole lot of ideas that are additions rather than modifications of what we already have.

[fat_kat]

hi

Could be mistaken here, but I get the general idea from reading posts about rng in this forum (not just this thread) that for HNM fights the majority of you think rng is only good for kiting or using the death combo, and don't really pay attention to the great dot it can be. With the proper setup, you can consistently do 100+ damage per shot on all kinds of things every 5-6 seconds. Albeit since LB doesn't camp kings anymore on Odin, most of the HNM I fight these days outside dynamis/salvage are cerberus and khimaira, whenever I bring my rng out to those fights it by far does the highest damage output over time. Since the last patch im sure 2h weapons do equal/more to these mobs but I have yet to see any ls let a drk or drg swing at khimairia the entire fight, where rng would just stand 15 feet away up the hill and plunk away the whole time and not take 1 point of damage. I'm sure a lot of you already knew this but just wanted to throw that out there...

Anyways to contribute to the thread I don't especially like the idea of haste effecting ranged attacks simply because I like not having to worry about it when I get slowed(dynamis-xarc), and for mages it's nice to have such a good DD in your exp party that you can keep out of the haste cycle. The best feasable(ie something SE might actually do) way imo to improve rng would just be to give us access to more str gear for higher ws, and yeah more snapshot+ gear.

[suji]

Let players alternate between keeping melee or ranged weapons out full-time like Tenzen does. Auto-attack would work the same way. With melee weapons out, you could still /shoot as normal (i.e. slowly). With ranged weapons out, you couldn't melee, but could shoot constantly with no macro pressing and with lower delay (due to the switching animation not playing every time you fire).

This is a really awesome idea. I toyed with the idea of buying a foot pedal and rigging it up to /shoot just so I could tap it whenever I wanted to ranged attack because it annoys the crap out of me that I can't play guitar between JAs and weaponskills on RNG.

[Kyreth]

stun bolts/arrows

Sure. Gimme acid tipped bullets and holy ones too.

I'd like to see a ranged/melee switch for autoattack- that is, you can set autoattack to ranged and melee to a "push button, swing once" mode, or the current autoattack with melee, ranged as "push button, fire once".

That'd definitely be a nice benefit to ranged weapon useage in general.

Split ranged weapon types up a bit as to how stats benefit them. Maybe give cannon-type guns different modifiers than most weapons, seeing as they have relatively limited ammo and accuracy (and see only rare use, sorta the pre-mod twohanded weapons of Rangerdom).

[Turambar]

If they made this change then it would make sense to make all ammo infinite. I forget the JA that allows this every so often but it would have to be replaced with something else. Placing one type of ammo in the ammo slot that would allow you to shoot ammo continuously would be great...I guess. I'd expect the cost to make this single ammo arrow or bolt to go up dramtically then level off but it would be a decent compromise.

Why would ammo be infinite? It's not now, other than with Unlimited Shot. Making ammo unlimited would be silly, and wouldn't do anything at all to ammo prices above level 60, because everyone would just use CP arrow/bolt full time. It would also obviate the Culverin's intent as a "special event" weapon (which it obviously is, considering that Cannon Shells only stack to 12 instead of 99).

[VZX]

Haste? No thanks, that'd mean we'd also be efected by slow.

And how many fights out there we got slow(ga)?

If getting slowed scare you that much, then stand out of range

[Don Katsu]

stun bolts/arrows

Sure. Gimme acid tipped bullets and holy ones too.

I owned myself twice in one thread...

I do like the idea of Auto Ranged Attack.

[Abel]

I'm highly in favor of the 'stances' which is very similar to me to Sword Of The New World, or Granada Espada whichever you've come to recognize/play. Each stance altered what you could do your movement speed and damage and the abilities granted to you. I really don't expect SE to over complicate RNG though, as adding stances would make it seem unfair to other jobs and in so doing would not only mimic another MMO very closely, but would also be out of the realm of FFXI's design scheme.

Few things I think should happen are quite simple and I believe in the scheme of FFXI:

-Double attack on arrows, occasionally able to nock two arrows at once or in rapid succession.

-Able to switch between melee and ranged only, ranged only would keep ranged weapon out 100% and would lower delay w/o lowering TP, and allow for an auto-attack (auto-attack doesn't bother me, i use windower macro to bind my end key to /ra <t> so i just hit one button anyways), in ranged only distance wouldn't matter and you'd always do the max dmg/acc possible, while you'd miss out on melee attacking the added 'haste' and acc/dmg would definitely make up for it by far I would think.

-I'm perfectly okay with haste affecting RNG, we hardly get slowed as it is (if you're smart about placement, and if you like to melee/rngatk then it's one of the things you must cope with for your choice) but it should have a lower cap for RNG vs other jobs, because as it is our natural delay is nearly twice as fast as a melee's (not counting reloading etc).

-Bumping Snapshot up from 2% to 4 or 5% would be dramatic enough of an effect to give us a 'ranged mastery' sorta trait similar to dual wield before tp nerf but not as potent. (Ebow: 490dly -15% = 416.5 round to 417 that's a reduction of roughly .66s while not alot it would be at least a start, from 4.45s(repeating) to rounded 3.79s.

-And make our damned accuracy traits worth something, all that I've honestly seen they're good for, is making is so our -acc rings matter less to our melee swings, and at higher levels you hardly melee anyways in exp if you have good ratk to get beyond the plateau. Let's add up the common Racc vs Melee Acc of a rng vs melee.
RNG: +48acc trait, Pcc 10racc, afbody 10racc, behemoth ringx1 11racc, fran/kriegs 11racc, CFG 10racc, Pseraweels 4racc, vision 2racc, genin 2racc, ebow 2racc, demon arrow 5racc, 8merits.
RNG Acc= 131

Melee: Pcc 10acc, Haub/Shura 10acc, 1xsniper 5acc, kittypants +rajas 10acc, amir boots 6acc, for the sake of arguement let's throw in 10acc more from wherever, and 8merits.
Melee Acc= 67

RNG needs roughly that much racc to hit consistently enough to justify meat over sushi, and still you will miss some side/slugs.

Melee on the other hand need about half the acc a ranger needs to hit consistently and many times hit near or at the cap of acc, this is simply broken and ridiculous. Add in the fact that in a 2brd pt the rng would be getting a prelude (if lucky) and 2x min, while the melees would get +35% haste and 2x min.

Maybe it's just me, but the system currently heavily favors melees to rngs for either ease of exping without needing to add new songs here and there or to worry about rng pulling hate and moving the mob when another needs WS, whatever the case may be it's clear that racc means almost nothing when compared to melee acc. How could it when simply our Racc traits + 8 merits would bring us within 3acc of the melee's and then we should be able to pile on the limited +ratk gear, which melee have large access to, the only major ratk gears i know of are the -10racc +10ratk body piece, CFG and AF2 which amounts to like +30ratk -10racc which most melee can easily stack on.

I fully believe RNG dmg needs an overhaul for str=ratk agi=racc perhaps then our racc would be fixed, and for the distance formula to be done away with, or at least offer the 'stance' like idea of changing to full ranged and distance no longer mattering. Maybe it's just me but I've seen people hitting the ratk cap, due to our high weapon dmg, it would seem our cap would be higher, it really just seems SE lumped RNG in with melee and gave us crappy acc after the update no matter where we stand in comparison to how it used to be.

[BRP]

RNG needs roughly that much racc to hit consistently enough to justify meat over sushi, and still you will miss some side/slugs.

I don't think there is much of a problem with this... they aren't build like other WSes. They are meant to miss some of the times. That's to balance them to other Ranged WSes(which they blow away in damage).


Oh and concerning BRD(and RNG), it would be awesome if they instead target other people on their songs(rolls) and they become single target. Then have Archer's Prelude become AoE, and so on.

[SchuldigGER]

i think EES should be made a 10 min abillity and the new 2hr would be the ranger fusion with his ammo/bow and inflicting status debuffs upon scavange.

[Shadida]

BRP beat me to it but I want to reiterate because it's starting to sound like QQing:

Slugwinder misses. It's the nature of the beast, the WS's description even says that it's inaccurate. Nothing will change that even if you got a +100 ranged accuracy trait, because it's just an inaccurate WS. Get a sea gorget if you don't have one and learn to balance your accuracy and STR/Ratt for WSs, it's something every RNG should do.

also schuldigGER lmfao

[Turambar]

i think EES should be made a 10 min abillity and the new 2hr would be the ranger fusion with his ammo/bow and inflicting status debuffs upon scavange.

I see what you did there.