Let's talk about Ranger

[Medivac]

Really they should just give us an ability called "Shoot BLM in the side of the head for comic effect" right? lol

was that a shot at blms?

[Dian]

Haste? No thanks, that'd mean we'd also be efected by slow.

And how many fights out there we got slow(ga)?

If getting slowed scare you that much, then stand out of range

Scared? No, but that'd be really annoying.

[Abel]

Well maybe I should of been more accurate in my point, I apologize. I did not intend to say that you will always hit slugwinder 100%, I'm fully aware that's the nature of the WS and it's to make up for it's high TP mod and high strength. The point is though that most rngs will still need that much acc just to justify meat over sushi for their accuracy, maybe around 90% acc with that or 85% roughly. My point was really that we need about double the accuracy of any other job to reach the same % of accuracy, which seems messed up to me. Especially considering RNG is supposed to be the best at ranged weapons, just because I got time to say it though, I second that Sam/Rng shouldn't really be able to bust out as big a numbers as some RNGs can in half the amount of time (barring any major weapons like KC or Ridill) perhaps it's just me, but using our very best weaponskill and doing it as fast or faster in most cases should not be fully allowed. But again, that's just my personal opinion and has little relation to the topic.

My two main problems with RNG is simply how little their so called proficiency with ranged weapons is, (ie ranged accuracy). And the fact that the distance needed to do top damage on a bow, and even gun, will cause the mob to move to the RNG, thus gimping their damage, and very likely making other melee miss WS or useful abilities/spells cast on the mob. This is completely contradictory to the function of any good party, and while it can be diminished to an extent it will always be there and remains one of the most retarded things that I find about RNG. Don't get me wrong I'm a career RNG all the way and desperately am in love with the job, it's just annoying that something aimed at helping give RNG's more 'strategy' (read: more people using windower for distance plugin) while at the same time that given boost to our damage makes us pull hate far easier, in many cases my difference from sweet spot to melee distance is 30+ dmg per shot, and 100+ on ws, which over time definitely adds up to some significant hate. Which is completely contradictory to the whole 'need to stand at x distance to do top dmg' when doing so makes the mob move, canceling out the whole reason for you being there, your only choice is to gimp your damage so you don't pull hate (you eventually will on WS almost assuredly) or go up close so you can WS and gimp your dmg, take time doing it, or just stay up close and deal with the lower dmg and get AOE'd but also be less worried about the pt having to move to the mob that just decided to wail on you.

[Edgie]

I havent given up on ranger, I love the job ever since I picked up my first gun (Im a gun ranger aka musketeer from bastok)
The nerf really messed up our accuracy, I really enjoyed been up front with the mob, getting tp with melee, making sure cover was ready and letting loose on the mobs face.
I completly wholeheartedly feel that its bullshit, having that much accuracy, and still missing. Not including slugs.

So in conclusion, fix rng accuracy PLEASE!

[terraflarex]

I have a question about RNG since alot of career/elite RNG's are posting and I haven't seen a rng thread in a while. My rl friend is in a ls that loves to zerg certain HNM's such as Bv2,Kirin,KV,DL etc and he is currently on stage 4 of the relic bow and also has a KC now my question is as follows: In a zerg situation is it possible for a KC/relic bow rng to outparse a KC DRK or even a RNG with relic gun because he seems to think spamming the Nama's Arrow can put out higher #'s than a kc drk without having to worry about Souleater time,whm spamming cures on you etc, or would the #'s just be about the same as a kc rng with culvern etc, and still not outparse the drk?

KC ranger is not going to out parse a KC DRK on BW/SE combination regardless of weapons. If DRK is using only SE, I suppose it is possible, although unlikely if the DRK is getting constant cures and is using a good setup. KC Ranger is crazy strong, but you have to keep in mind how the damage is being calculated. In a zerg type of fight, the DRKs are swinging for around 150-300 with SE up and are also draining that amount if they have BW up, and they wont require heals (most likely) during the duration of their 2hr. KC ranger does negligible damage on KC itself, but can put up some decent slugwinders, although its most likely never going to match a KC DRK for that 30 (?) seconds of SE BW combination. Also, Namas Arrow does less damage than Sidewinder, the advantage to Namas is that it is essentially a 0 enmity weapon skill (it's not actually 0 as far as I can tell, but it's very very very low hate). Same thing goes for Annihlator's WS, it's less than slug dmgwise, but it resets hate. Best thing you can really do on ranger in a zerg setup imo, is culverin+1 and Heavy Shell with double minuet and preludes. Depending on your gear, you can put up a huge number on slug, and then you can barrage, slug, Wing, slug, EES (remember to unequip, heavy shell after the first slug^^). Usually, by the time you're done with all of that, your target should be dead or very close to dead.

That's my opinion anyway. Hopefully, your friend is not discouraged or anything because Yoichinoyumi is pretty incredible, and I personally love the damn thing.

[klvino]

EES should be just that, a 100% guaranteed hit. How exactly to bump it's dmg is something else.

Snapshot should be an incorporated effect into Hunter and Archer Preludes. It's very doubtful a Shapshot effect would be added to Marches.

[Sonomaa]

Sharpshot: 5 minute ability, recast 1 minute.
During sharpshot ranged attack and accuracy increased, bow interuption rate is increased (can move and shoot in a limited fashion), Snapshot effect is increased, melee attack speed and attack are decreased dramatically.

Sharpstrike: 5 minute ability, recast 1 minute.
During Sharpstrike ranged accuracy is increased, ranged attack is decreased, ranged attack delay is increased dramatically, melee attack and accuracy increased, melee speed normal.

Sharpshot recast merits changed to Barrage recast merits.


Thus is born the Sharp Ranger and the Strike Ranger. Stealing a little from Samurais great ability ideas.

edit: tweaked

[Shadida]

Sonomaa, I love that idea. Traditional ranged attackers are happy because they can do their job better, Kclub and Ridill RNGs are super-happy because they have a way to boost their melee TP gain. Even players without Kclub or Ridill could at least feel more comfortable than before using melee attacks to gain TP. I don't even think we'd need the attack boost as long as the delay adjustments were worthwhile.

And obviously, you would need a Ranged Attack weapon (bow, gun, xbow) equipped in order to use it, much like you need a two-handed weapon in order to use Hasso/Seigan. Also, not sure if they should be Lv25 or what - do you suppose people would actually sub RNG for Sharpstrike?

Everyone send that to POL right now!! lol

[Sagacious Sundi]

Sharpshot: 5 minute ability, recast 1 minute.
During sharpshot ranged attack and accuracy increased, bow interuption rate is increased (can move and shoot in a limited fashion), Snapshot effect is increased, melee attack speed and attack are decreased dramatically.

Sharpstrike: 5 minute ability, recast 1 minute.
During Sharpstrike ranged accuracy is increased, ranged attack is decreased, ranged attack delay is increased dramatically, melee attack and accuracy increased, melee speed normal.

Sharpshot recast merits changed to Barrage recast merits.


Thus is born the Sharp Ranger and the Strike Ranger. Stealing a little from Samurais great ability ideas.

edit: tweaked

Don't mean to derail, but they should try this with some other jobs. Here are some ideas:

WAR/SAM: Already have.
MNK/BLM/THF/DRK/BRD: ?
WHM: Maybe they can choose between cheaper cure spells or less enmity.
RDM: Uh... enhancing duration or enfeebling accuracy?
PLD: Better defense or increased enmity gain?
BST: Better melee performance or pet performance?
NIN: Better DW or better throwing/ninjutsu, or better DW/throwing or better ninjutsu (maybe just better DW or better throwing)
DRG: Better melee performance or better wyvern performance?
SMN: I even came up with names for this: Astral Fury (better damage on rages) and Astral Support (increased duration or potency on buffs, and increased accuracy on enfeebles)
BLU: Obviously, better physical or magical spells
COR: Better Quick Draw or Phantom Roll?
PUP: Same as BST and DRG?

(Note: I'm not saying any of this is needed, so don't think "why would that job need this?". I just really like this concept. Feel free to ignore this post.)

[Sonomaa]

very few jobs need tweaking like that, ranger is one of them, others simply dont need them

[BRP]

While the whole Hasso and Seigen thing is neat, I don't think such a system is required for RNG. And Sharpstrike sounds meh, don't understand how it compares to the Sharpshot... though I think you are trying to boost RNG's melee capability?

[rydiu]

I just read the first post and all I can say is that to complain about RNG 2 hour is really, really dumb. Many jobs have far worse 2 hour than RNG (read:NIN/THF/BST/etc.).

Umm... no. BST 2 hour is quite powerful....you can charm an incredibly tough+++++++++++++++++++++++++ mob and keep them charmed for 30 minutes. It would be nice if they let the charm last longer (did they with the last patch?) but even a regular tough mob only stays charmed for about 1-2minutes, an IT stays charmed less than 30 seconds at most.

So you just called someone dumb and followed it up with a dumb statement. gg

[LinktheDeme]

All ranger needs is 1STR to be 1rattack and 1 agi to be 1 racc , and have haste have influence on Rattacks and Im pretty sure it'll be fine. Or rapid shot II and III and IV probably would work just as well i'd imagine.

edit: actually higher tiers of rapid shot probably better than haste effecting it because of -delay merits. Might be too much hax with lower delayed xbox with haste spamming holy bolts or something.

[Xisin]

I'm for many of the ideas mentioned on this thread, but I think no one has come up with a solution for our HNM problems.

Perhaps a change to the wyrm type mobs would go a long way to helping us. I find it ironic these mobs are naturally resistant to piercing when the wyrm slaying job(dragoon) only uses piercing. Also the old distance nerf is emphisized against dragons. Letting a rng stand at the perfect distance is not worth the risk of a spike flail, so rangers are forced to stand at the feet of the wyrm, which drastically reduces thier already bad damage against dragons.

I think we need new ammo, especially of the bullet variety. I'm currently upgrading a relic gun and it saddens me that the best bullet I can shoot with it is a silver bullet. Why is there 2 speical arrows and a speical bolt from conquest yet no bullet to be found?

[terraflarex]

Heavy Shell

I know it's not usable on relic gun. Blame SE.

Only one of those arrows is good really btw.

[Kyreth]

Hmm.

Let's see.

1) Give everyone a ranged auto-attack option. Rapid Shot is a pissy skill when it's unpredicatable and you have to MANUALLY FIRE EVERY DAMN ROUND ANYWAY.

2) Once you add 1), add a Rapid Shot II trait at 45. It'll actually mean something now.

3) Add a "Burst" JA to go with Barrage. Triple shot ranged attack. Level 60, relatively short cooldown time.

[Hashmalum]

I do like Turambar's auto-ranged attack idea.

Money spent = best damage was and still is a terrible philosophy.

I agree.

If anything, they should make the recycle job trait much more proliferent.

Perhaps as an alternative to Recycle at lower levels, SE could bring back an older FF ability, Secret Hunt (FFT name)/Poach (FF12 name)? When used, this job ability would make it so that if the user's next attack kills the mob, a (non-crystal) item is forced to be dropped. A bit like Treasure Hunter, but not active continuously, and requiring a bit more skill to use properly (so as not to step on THF's toes). I've been missing the ability, it would help out RNG with their cash flow problems, and it seems appropriate to the job.

[SamanosukeShiva]

my idea for RNG would be, make a new ja or command like /snipe for RNG just for the sake of pulling, instant/if not very fast ranged attack with reduced TP/Damage.

3:
Make Slugwinder RNG/COR only. It's just absurd that SAM/RNG can equal or surpass RNG-main in overall DPS while using the best RNG weapon skill. Of course this might not be an issue now, with Yuki/Gekko/Kasha being so much stronger post-8/27/07.

you may not notice this but for SAM/RNG to land sidewinder with only 230 archery skill we need ASSLOAD of r.acc, and the damage is only decent on VT mob or lower, IT and higher it's hard to land sidewinder even with +90 r.acc ,full archery merits, and sushi, and when it does land the damage is only about 2/3(if not lower) the damage a main job RNG can put out.

if a SAM/RNG outdamaged a RNG in sidewinder, that's the RNG's fault for being gimp. A well equipped RNG does 2x the sidewinder damage vs a well equipped SAM/RNG.

[Delekii]

Haste? No thanks, that'd mean we'd also be efected by slow.

And how many fights out there we got slow(ga)?

If getting slowed scare you that much, then stand out of range

Scared? No, but that'd be really annoying.

Ask melees how many would be willing to give up haste to avoid the effects of being slowed. If anyone says yes, get them to quit.

[Seamus]

Im also a career rng, always will be. But it seems we really dont fit into our role anymore. Aside from shadowbind, rng really doesn't have much besides its dmg. We are a job with paper defense, supposed to be accurate marksmen (hence the 4 Acc bonuses) who are meant to stand back and dish out large dmg. Hell our lvl 55 bow with lvl 60 ammunition, has more base damage than Apocalypse. Shadowbind is our only escape/survival mechanism, and its there to run the hell away from something really. If you even look at the other DDs out there, they all have better survival mechanisms/skills than rng. War has the ability so switch into a defensive role if needed, heavy armor, and high HP. Sam has HP on par with war, high parry skill, third eye, and now with hasso/seigan can switch between offense and defense like war, and anticipate numerous attacks. Mnk while its armor is low like rng, has the highest HP in game, an eva boost ability, chakra, counter, guard. Thf while low hp and def like rng, was given evasion out the ass, and hide. Drk has decent HP, a good armor class, drains, enfeebs, stun, sleep, mind you, most drks dont bother with thier spells, on paper, they are still there, and add to drk's usefulness/survival ability. Rng is blessed with low hp, low armor, just shadowbind, you could argue sleep arrows, but ive noticed them to not be all that reliable, 200 base eva, no natural parry skill, and accuracy bonueses that seem to no longer matter for our ranged attacks.

I think that in addition to the 1 str = 1 r attack and 1 agi = 1 r acc that people have been mentioning, rng needs to be switched over to a dmg calculation that is very similar to the one that 2h jobs have now. I dont think we need haste added to ranged attack, or a double shot, or any of that. I think we fit into the role of a lower DoT job with large WS and spike capability. Switching us over to a system similar to 2Hers for damage would also give our DoT a boost, as well as our spike dmg. I think the thing that has hurt rng the most, especially after the 2h patch is that we are on a diff dmg calculation, with low crits. Calculate our damage the same way as other DDs, and give us the benefit of the stats system they have now, and I believe we will compete again. However whatever they do, I hope it is 1str = 1 r attack and 1agi = 1 r acc would be when you have a bow/xbow/gun equipped. I do not want to be forced to use a staff, I happen to like my Kriegsbeil/Mercenary Targe setup.

Also, I may be an oddity, but I am against autoshoot. I was a 70+ rng when noct gear was released, and ctrl+d has become too ingrained on me as a rng. I would probably feel bored if I had autoshoot on rng. Also think kited fights, if you have autoshoot on, and you need to move to be in a better position to land your shot, and you are autoshooting, youll inturrupt yourself, and lwaste time between shots. Also, if we had autoshoot, say you were doing something like farming sea, and didnt want to waste ammo, and were just meleeing for the hell of it.

There are many good suggestions in this thread. But I believe if our damage was just calculated like the other heavy DDs, and we were given an attack and acc boost similar to theirs, when you have a ranged weapon equipped, we will be back on par with the other DDs. I like being forced to stand back and shoot, so I dont want that to change, so I would not want a return to 'pre-nerf' rng.

Oh and I agree, let us see our damn ranged attack. It shouldnt be that hard to add 1 extra line to the equip window, and it would allow us to choose food more correctly based on our ranged attack.