Update Details 9/6/07

[Nameless]

Well, they didn't specifically mention that they made changes to 1 dex = 1 acc, etc. in the last patch notes either. Just going to have to check after the update and see if they ninja'd it back or not.

They did mention it, we just didn't understand.

- Two-handed weapons will now receive larger benefits from a character’s attributes, and will also inflict more damage when facing higher-level opponents or enemies with high defense.

Everyone assumed that would mean 1STR=1Attack, but in SE's vague way it's pretty clear they meant both that and the dex change.

Two-handed weapons will now receive larger benefits from a character’s attributeS. Notice the 'S', if just str = att, it won't have a S.

[Shuemue]

One thing that I've always wondered, if a mob has no weapon at all, is that considered a 2H weapon, a 1H weapon, hand to hand, or none of the above?

Would depend on their job, no?

[Deftscythe]

Well, they didn't specifically mention that they made changes to 1 dex = 1 acc, etc. in the last patch notes either. Just going to have to check after the update and see if they ninja'd it back or not.

They did mention it, we just didn't understand.

- Two-handed weapons will now receive larger benefits from a character’s attributes, and will also inflict more damage when facing higher-level opponents or enemies with high defense.

Everyone assumed that would mean 1STR=1Attack, but in SE's vague way it's pretty clear they meant both that and the dex change.

Two-handed weapons will now receive larger benefits from a character’s attributeS. Notice the 'S', if just str = att, it won't have a S.

Uh, yeah. I said they meant both. Not sure what you're getting at unless you're just agreeing with me.

[Lordshin]

"- Amount of damage is not being corrected properly when characters are equipped with two-handed weapons."

Why can't they just say it like it is?

"We're going to lower 2H pew pew because of dualwield QQ"

hahaha.... that made my day... all 20mins of it so far >.>
tbh i never actually noticed the 2h buff... (cept the STR/DEX=ATK/ACC) my DRK's lolWS were pretty LOL (then again i just recently got Vorpal ><, lvl 50DRK )
But i did notice how DRGs would pull hate very quickly if they used WS, but of course good PLDs could hold hate very well (keep in mind this is around 48-50 )

and i cant notice endgame damage cuz my filters are on in dynamis and i dont have lolmelee in my lolmanaburn

[Turambar]

One thing that I've always wondered, if a mob has no weapon at all, is that considered a 2H weapon, a 1H weapon, hand to hand, or none of the above?

Would depend on their job, no?

Are there any beastmen mobs that have no weapon, but aren't Monks?

[Spekkio]

One thing that I've always wondered, if a mob has no weapon at all, is that considered a 2H weapon, a 1H weapon, hand to hand, or none of the above?

Would depend on their job, no?

Are there any beastmen mobs that have no weapon, but aren't Monks?

i think some ninjas use h2h iirc. i'm fairly sure while yagudo wield a katana (but only a single one. noobs don't know they got dual wield!) orcs punch, however i think, since they have a limited selection of weapons, none of which really make any sense for a ninja to be toting around.

[layoneil]

Are there any beastmen mobs that have no weapon, but aren't Monks?

PUPs, but he's talking about non-beastmen. do they all have jobs? like Dhalmels and Lizards have jobs?

[Shuemue]

One thing that I've always wondered, if a mob has no weapon at all, is that considered a 2H weapon, a 1H weapon, hand to hand, or none of the above?

Would depend on their job, no?

Are there any beastmen mobs that have no weapon, but aren't Monks?

Uh, I don't think he just meant beastmen, but no, I can't think of any.

[Slott]

Actually, me and a warrior joked around that Kirin received the benefit from the 2h buff (Maybe he did) Because he put out 2500 damage bear hugs on us (and it was never that high prepatch) It one shotted a warrior with defender on -.-

So maybe he's considered a 2Handed weapon

[divisortheory]

One thing that I've always wondered, if a mob has no weapon at all, is that considered a 2H weapon, a 1H weapon, hand to hand, or none of the above?

Would depend on their job, no?

Are there any beastmen mobs that have no weapon, but aren't Monks?

I wasn't really referring to beastmen (or even mobs with jobs for that matter). Anything. Use Fafnir or Adamantoise as an example if you want.


btw, Absolute Virtue uses a 2H weapon, so that means he's being nerfed with this next update lol.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

One thing that I've always wondered, if a mob has no weapon at all, is that considered a 2H weapon, a 1H weapon, hand to hand, or none of the above?

Would depend on their job, no?

Are there any beastmen mobs that have no weapon, but aren't Monks?

Uh, I don't think he just meant beastmen, but no, I can't think of any.

ToAU beastmen after you break their weapons

I also speculate that some other mobs are considered 2h since a lizard smashing you with his head isn't exactly 1 or 2h.

[evilpaul]

The following issues will be addressed:
- Monster ability statistics are lower than intended.

- Ability statistics of Automatons and Pets are lower than intended.

BST and PUP buff!

Not a PUP buff at all, considering they're returning it to how it was before the update. If they make it higher than what it was predate, then that's a buff.

Oh I thought they meant to raise the stats but didn't, not that they lowered them

How significant a decrease did PUP's Automatons stats get?

I'm curious because they use "ability statistics" twice, and I don't think slightly lower INT would explain why people were seeing a ton of resists on various mobs' spells. Otherwise Black Mages would have been highly resistant to magic to begin with stacking 30+ on in gear and all.

i think some ninjas use h2h iirc. i'm fairly sure while yagudo wield a katana (but only a single one. noobs don't know they got dual wield!) orcs punch, however i think, since they have a limited selection of weapons, none of which really make any sense for a ninja to be toting around.

Those dirty Mamool Ja NINs use H2H. Between those and the Lurkers it makes north thickets pretty annoying.

[Nagamaki]

Mamoll NINs, Troll PUPs, Aern NINs.

But in terms of non-beastmen mobs, its pretty obvious mandies are HTH, as for other stuff there wouldn't have been any difference pre-patch so I doubt there is a distinction. If there was, that could be tested by seeing if manticores or golems (really high delay types) are more accurate than they used to be, but that doesn't really matter a whole lot.

[Nameless]

Well, they didn't specifically mention that they made changes to 1 dex = 1 acc, etc. in the last patch notes either. Just going to have to check after the update and see if they ninja'd it back or not.

They did mention it, we just didn't understand.

- Two-handed weapons will now receive larger benefits from a character’s attributes, and will also inflict more damage when facing higher-level opponents or enemies with high defense.

Everyone assumed that would mean 1STR=1Attack, but in SE's vague way it's pretty clear they meant both that and the dex change.

Two-handed weapons will now receive larger benefits from a character’s attributeS. Notice the 'S', if just str = att, it won't have a S.

Uh, yeah. I said they meant both. Not sure what you're getting at unless you're just agreeing with me.

Yea, i am agreeing with ya. Just wanted to quote that actual SE statement. Sorry for the confusion.

[Francisco II]

- All random number calculations for damage amounts are not being calculated properly.

- Amount of damage is not being corrected properly when characters are equipped with two-handed weapons.

removes the cap for everyone and makes crits worth something, but will it lower the damage of 2h?

If they did that - I'd have to start camping Fafnir again...

To make Red Curry for my MNK...

[Larrieux]

Someone commented that they used a Gaxe in a party and felt it was clearly broken. Yet I often wondered, shouldn't a wars damage with Gaxe be a slightly higher overall then dual wield axes since they have a slightly higher rating in Gaxe then axe? I always thought it was a bit strange SE didn't do something before because you could argue that its broken when a job doesn't use the weapon they have the highest rating in 99.99% of the time because it's inefficient. I'm not willing to argue the point but just something to think about.

[Spider-Dan]

Monster ability statistics are lower than intended.

I wonder if this is the magic resistance nerf that everyone noticed.

Probably.

No one mentioned, but looks like Dex=Acc and Str=Atk is here to stay.

That change by itself isn't really that bad though. It was the level correction and pDIF issues that was really fucking shit up.

As I said before, I don't agree. Level correction and pDIF (on 2h) issues are only broken if you believe that pimped 2h and pimped 1h should be ~equal on higher-level mobs, which is certainly not a theory in line with pre-patch notes (specifically: 2h weapon performance will be increased against high-level mobs).

1 DEX -> 1 ACC is the factor that allows mediocre 2h to throw accuracy to the wind and go balls-to-the-wall on ATK/haste. Good 2h beating good 1h is perfectly fine (someone will always be superior, and there's no objective reason why it shouldn't be 2h), but it's the mediocre 2h beating the good 1h that is the more serious issue, IMO. And removing 1 DEX -> 1 ACC fixes that.

As you already said, players with good gear will be able to reach the same accuracy, but that's the key difference: the players with good gear, not just the players with any gear.

[Kazen]

Someone commented that they used a Gaxe in a party and felt it was clearly broken. Yet I often wondered, shouldn't a wars damage with Gaxe be a slightly higher overall then dual wield axes since they have a slightly higher rating in Gaxe then axe? I always thought it was a bit strange SE didn't do something before because you could argue that its broken when a job doesn't use the weapon they have the highest rating in 99.99% of the time because it's inefficient. I'm not willing to argue the point but just something to think about.

I did consider that but... Lets say I hit for 100 per axe and 80 on joy sword hits on mamools (tad more probably but I havent did mamools for a bit dual wield). Maneater 49 base dmg ok, Fortitude axe base dmg 64, I was hitting every turn for 150-190 with a fortitude axe attacking 1-3 times each turn when usually it was at least 2 times considering the double attack proc rate of war and the proc rate of the weapon. As for weapon skills, my lowest raging rush was around 950 where as my highest ws was around 2400, my average was around 1300-1400. It just seemed a tad broken to me to get tp faster, do more dot, and do more ws damage.

[Nagamaki]

Oh and for the people still saying "this specific bit is what made it broken", what makes it possible to do broken damage is the combination of the pdif cap, base attack and acc boost and level correction, not just one element. Without the att/acc boost you wouldn't be able to exploit the pdif cap as easily, without the pdif cap max damage wouldn't really have changed and without the level correction, it would still be extremely hard to get pdif anywhere near even the old cap on really high level mobs.

Ironically, SE changed almost every aspect of the damage calculation for two-handers now except the part that really is the main reason one-handers with much lower base damage could hit relatively close per hit to what two-handers did with much higher base damage, fSTR.

[cdgreg]

btw, Absolute Virtue uses a 2H weapon, so that means he's being nerfed with this next update lol.

Good, hopefully they "break" him. :D